Thanks, dice! Now, where to allocate... and rogue build ideas


I'm rolling up a lvl 4 human rogue, and, no kidding, got the following unmodified scores:


So, one of those scores will get a +2 from being human, and I'll also get to bump up a score by +1 thanks to starting at lvl 4. I could see one of those 15s becoming a 16, and the 18 becoming a 20... or putting the +2 on the base 16 to start off with 2 18s. The question is, which stats should these be going to?

First off, it's important to know we're playing in a very small campaign - just me & my wife, actually. I'll be playing a rogue, she'll be a monk. Since it's just the 2 of us, we can adjust difficulty so it's appropriate for just 2 PCs, so I don't need an uber-optimized character, but I want something that will be fun.

I have a couple ideas about this character, and need some help deciding which way to go.

1) knife-thrower. I know this isn't as effective in PF as it was in 3.5, but this could still be fun, I think. I would want Quick Draw, and probably TWF to throw rapidly, as well as to fight in melee with dual daggers. Just carry around a lot of daggers and a shortbow for those long shots.

2) sap master. There are some great sap-oriented feats from UC that I want to grab - Sap Adept and Sap Mastery. I'm wondering if I could go TWF with saps as well... Of course I'd need ranged capability as well, so maybe I could combine the TWF sap stuff with the knife-throwing idea... or that might be too feat-heavy?

3) spear/longspear. Something about this seems pretty cool. With the stats I rolled, I wouldn't have to dump STR, and I might be able to pull this off. The question is how effective this should be, and which feats I'd need.

4) finally, the typical bow-rogue. But since it's just the 2 of us, I can't plan on always being able to shoot. I'll need to combine any shooting style with one of the other ideas above.

I have already determined that I don't want to dump CHA altogether. That will probably be the 14. But apart from that, I haven't decided on specifics regarding stat allocation or build style.

Interested to hear any ideas.

CountMRVHS wrote:

I'm rolling up a lvl 4 human rogue, and, no kidding, got the following unmodified scores:


I rolled up a cohort like that one time. It was that thing where every roll of the dice was followed by "Oh, no way! watch, next i bet it'll be a 7 or something.", which gave way to "What god has blessed these dice and why are they being used to roll up a cohort?!"

As far as what to play: I've always really liked the TWF/Throwing knife rogue a lot. Not super powerful, but dang it's cool. Multiclass with sorcerer for low level utility spells, maybe?

Dark Archive

With stats like those it's hard to go wrong. Would you consider going ninja instead to make use of a higher-than-average charisma score? The benefits of a ki pool will mimic TWF; being able to attack twice with a longspear at level 2 will be so nice.

Str 20, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 16

If you go human go with Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative. Extra ki at level 3 means you'll be constantly rocketing around attacking twice as a full round action for 1d8+7. If you instead go for Power Attack it'll be 1d8+10, and you'll still have 4 ki points at level 2.

Of course, as a backup weapon you can go katana and masterwork buckler.

I suggest not being human. A rogue that can't sneak attack in the dark or for that matter go stealthing w/o carrying a torch is a pretty sad rogue.

Are non-core races available? Only core option to boost dex and get darkvision is the Half-Orc.

Dark Archive

Half-Orcs are also an excellent choice, but I would go strength rogue. Strength means you get damage reliably, sneak attack or no.

so keeping in mind that it's not for powergaming, but for fun, and that your buddy will be a monk:

Sap Master is high power and you don't need flanking as it doesn't help you get people flat footed. You could use it roleplaying like to silence guards or just have an awesome surprise round in combat.

Strength Rogue: if you like to roleplay that, sure. I would go for Dex however, as it's more classic. With a monk you could be stealthy the 2 of you and have awesome urban thieving campaigns.

Bow, in that case I would go with scout archetype+sap master + sling/gun.
It's not ideal.

Knife thrower: Sap above is better, but you can throw a knife in a surprise round as you don't get a move action. If you like melee knifing, there is a good archetype for, gives you d8's on SA.

By the way, big plus on ninja, is lots of fun, you can combine it with scout (and sap master), I would go with melee, so your wife doesn't feel to alone in melee, and you don't waste an opportunity for flanking.

So for fun: Dex melee ninja, sap master is too strong if used well, so I would use it out of combat.

I see the point about dark/low-light vision, but I worry about the lack of feats. And the extra skill point is nice. I'm a sucker for humans, really. I haven't taken a look at non-core races, though... on the srd, I assume?

What sort of feats would work for a longspear rogue? I guess Power Attack. Cleave is tempting, but low AC seems problematic.

I keep wishing they'd come out with some really sweet spear-focused feats, like to shorten the reach as a move/swift action, or even TWF with a spear, using the butt as a quarterstaff.

I like the coolness factor of knife-throwing, but again can't seem to find the feats to make it awesome...

I think I'm mostly leaning toward the sap tbh. If I take a feat like Throw Anything, can I use the thrown sap as nonlethal, so I trigger Sap Adept/Master? Or is an "improved weapon" always lethal?

(Not sure I like the image of carrying around 20 saps and throwing them, though... just curious)

I haven't checked out the ninja class, no. Don't have UC, but I'll check the SRD.

The bestiary races you can use as PCs are in the PRD, but don't get any special section to make them easy to look for. The easiest place to check is here.

Perhaps just do a ctrl+F (command to find), type in "darkvision" and keep hitting enter until you see a race you like.

Depending on if you do ninja (cha-based) or not and your preferences, I'd say best options are Fetchling, Goblin, Hobgoblin, Ratfolk, Strix, or Tiefling.

My favorite choices would be Fetchling, Goblin, Strix, or Tiefling.

Dark Archive

If you go ninja, AC won't be as big of an issue because you'll be able to use mirror image.

Power Attack is helpful for damage, but I would first go with Extra Ki because it's more versatile.

You don't have to worry about enemies inside your reach either. Just equip a cestus; it's basically a spiked metal glove that does blunt or piercing damage 1d4/19-20. If they get inside your reach you still have the option to give them a good whack, and Combat Reflexes means you always threaten.

A Half-Orc is actually able to get a natural bite attack, which means you wouldn't even need the cestus: if they get past your reach, just bite them!

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