I think my parents have more homosexual friends that heterosexual ones, so despite my differences with them, they have some redeeming qualities.That would have been a cool environment to grow up in. I'm positive I'm the first homosexual my parents were knowingly on speaking terms with. My best friend was their first bisexual. Small town in the midwest and all.
A year or two ago I was in contact with a woman who raised her family in San Francisco and we somehow got to talking about sexuality and sex roles. She had a M-to-F transkid (Is that the right term?) I made a crack about how wrestling is probably the most homoerotic sport ever and she hopped right in: "Oh you have no idea! My then-son's wrestling team was all either out, closeted but obvious, or seriously questioning. Also they did sleepovers where they played D&D all the time. But then this was San Francisco."
That would have been nice on, well, two obvious levels. :) I knew I liked guys and just guys before I was in high school but being gay was something people on TV did, and only in a weird abstract way where nothing ever actually happened. For quite a while I was convinced that most guys had the same happy fun time thoughts I did but just went with girls as a kind of social obligation.
The window between my becoming physically sexually mature and realizing my bi-sexually were surprising narrow considering what it seems like many bi men have told me they experienced, even narrower the time between realizing it and approaching some of my male friends to gauge their interest in such things.
Sleepovers played a big role in much of my earlier adventures. I had one friend in particularly that was highly interested in me. We had been friends since we were kids and hung out extensively. He was extremely into the Warhammer 40k table top game and had an extensive, well painted model collection. We used to have sleepovers where we would stay up all night playing many different scenarios. After we discovered our mutual interest in each other we would still stay up all night long, though our activities at this point would have been consider somewhat more scandalous by our parents.
I remember after one long night we came up stairs from the basement(where the Warhammer stuff was kept) and sat drowsily at the dining room table as his mom cooked us breakfast.
“Did you boys stay up all night playing your warhammers game?” She asked us.
“Mmmhmm.” We sleepily and simultaneously muttered
The window between my becoming physically sexually mature and realizing my bi-sexually were surprising narrow considering what it seems like many bi men have told me they experienced, even narrower the time between realizing it and approaching some of my male friends to gauge their interest in such things.Not exactly bi, but I'm not sure how long it took for me to realize that I wasn't purely heterosexual anymore. I would like to say that I realized right away, but that's not something I can be certain about.
If you took a survey of all Bi men who knows what the answer to "when did you realize?" would be. From personal conversations I've had late teens early twenties seems the most common time frame I've been told about.
That's later than I expected. I experimented enough to figure out that I'm heterosexual rather early, even though I had some bi-envy. Then, not too long ago, things changed and now I probably need therapy for it.
Yep, well in the end everything I have to say is just from personal experience. My words are in no way meant to be taken as a declaration of THE ONE TRUTHIEST TRUTH!(tm)
I'm sorry you feel you need therapy for your feelings, what about them is bothering you? (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)
Well, as I said, I was heterosexual until not too long ago. Rather suddenly, I found myself with androphilia, or sexual attraction to men. This lasted a couple of months, at which point my orientation changed again. The next change lasted about a day. The change after that a few weeks. Then another few weeks, and again, and again, then a few hours, a few minutes, then a few weeks again. It wasn't just my sexual orientation, but my gender as well. They just keep changing over and over again at random and it's kinda making a mess of my mind. I've experienced quite a number of different orientations, a number of which I wasn't aware existed.
It's brought about quite a bit of stress, confusion, and anxiety, and I've been at a loss for quite a while what to do about it. On the bright side it's brought me quite a bit of new perspectives on quite a number of things, but I'm not really sure if I can consider that worth it.
It's not really therapy that I want. I want medicine or surgery. Something that'll excise this from my mind and body. Not that I really think that's possible, however.
I've honestly never heard of that but I can imagine how mind bending that would be. I'm sorry you are suffering and hope you can either find a way to stabilize your condition or come to feel ok with it.
Who said we haven't filled that form already? I mean, beginning of time was a looong time ago, its normal we can't recall...
I say that half jokingly, but I do believe in reincarnation and I do believe that we are making these choices every day for this life and the one(s) to come.
My previous life must have made some bad choices then...
In any case, cis-hetero is overpowered. Nerf plz.
Hey, just because I can juggle mountains in my spare time does NOT mean I'm overpowered!
If you took a survey of all Bi men who knows what the answer to "when did you realize?" would be. From personal conversations I've had late teens early twenties seems the most common time frame I've been told about.The window between my becoming physically sexually mature and realizing my bi-sexually were surprising narrow considering what it seems like many bi men have told me they experienced, even narrower the time between realizing it and approaching some of my male friends to gauge their interest in such things.Not exactly bi, but I'm not sure how long it took for me to realize that I wasn't purely heterosexual anymore. I would like to say that I realized right away, but that's not something I can be certain about.
I am not a man, but I was 18 when I accepted that I was bisexual. It was a realization too, but more in the sense that I finally acknowledged certain feelings I had been trying to ignore or push away.
I have my fair share of adventures. That said, you reminded me of the episode of united states of tara where the main characters son was dealing with being gay and comparing himself to his more exciting gay friend. Twas an amazing storyline and series.
I'm rather glad to be gay. I imagine being straight is really boring and/or tedious. Of course I don't really know, but it looks that way from the outside looking in.My previous life must have made some bad choices then...
In any case, cis-hetero is overpowered. Nerf plz.
Not necessarily. Pioneers often have it hard, but not necessarily as a punishment.
There is nothing wrong about being minority; there is something wrong about the majority picking on that minority (and the other way around actually). Heterosexuality isn't to blame, but those who abuse of the power/fail-safe granted by being part of a majority are the ones to blame IMO. The same power to pick on others (putting it mildly) can be achieve even as a minority; this has been politically observed throughout history.
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I love this thread.
I would totally sleep with a giant robot.
I've heard giant robots can also be involved. Admittedly that comes up less often in most social situations.
I'm pretty sure that Samnell's comment might have been a reference to Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
Or not...
Actually no. I'm years behind on my mecha watching. I think the last full series I sat through was RahXephon. I didn't much watch this show, but I remember the creators being on Tech TV and someone asked about the accuracy of the final claim in the lyrics:
"I don't know, do they?" The whole female audience (which ok was about 20 people) cheered.
Whatever your original reference you have inadvertently sold me on a naughty encounter with a giant robot. If I ever become a rich man(and gain all the universe jumping powers that obviously entails) I shall find an Anime Super Engineer™ and have him build me one.
I imagine the conversation might go a bit like this:
Me: “I need you to build me the most powerful Gundam you can and put the strongest weapons and armor on it you can find.”
Anime Engineer: “Hmmm, Ok, are you starting a war or something?”
Me: “No my good man, I am simply a person that has grown tired of my small, delicate lovers and how gentle I must always remind myself to be with them to avoid hurting them. I need a true war machine in my harem for my more drunken, wild nights. I need you to build this mecha so that I may make love to it!”
Anime Engineer: “…?”
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"No vagina" is a problem for me. "No dick" probably also.
Yes, I do need vagina. I truly need my penis however, as I am quite attached to it. Literally.
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That's later than I expected. I experimented enough to figure out that I'm heterosexual rather early, even though I had some bi-envy. Then, not too long ago, things changed and now I probably need therapy for it.Yep, well in the end everything I have to say is just from personal experience. My words are in no way meant to be taken as a declaration of THE ONE TRUTHIEST TRUTH!(tm)
I'm sorry you feel you need therapy for your feelings, what about them is bothering you? (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)
Well, as I said, I was heterosexual until not too long ago. Rather suddenly, I found myself with androphilia, or sexual attraction to men. This lasted a couple of months, at which point my orientation changed again. The next change lasted about a day. The change after that a few weeks. Then another few weeks, and again, and again, then a few hours, a few minutes, then a few weeks again. It wasn't just my sexual orientation, but my gender as well. They just keep changing over and over again at random and it's kinda making a mess of my mind. I've experienced quite a number of different orientations, a number of which I wasn't aware existed.
It's brought about quite a bit of stress, confusion, and anxiety, and I've been at a loss for quite a while what to do about it. On the bright side it's brought me quite a bit of new perspectives on quite a number of things, but I'm not really sure if I can consider that worth it.
It's not really therapy that I want. I want medicine or surgery. Something that'll excise this from my mind and body. Not that I really think that's possible, however.
Meophist, disclaimers first: I'm not an expert, and I've not quite gone through what you have, and the following is all very, very, very "grain of salt." And more to the point, you need to do what feels right to you, which can include ignoring the crazy lady from the Internet.
I do know that sometimes we experience physically what begins as a mental or emotional situation, and want to see medicine as cure-all magic bullet that makes bad feelings go away entirely. We both know that doesn't happen.
I used to have panic attacks all the time, which are VERY physical-feeling, and my initial sense was that I wanted/needed a doctor to fix it, not a psychologist or psychiatrist. But as I processed what was going on, I realized there was a tremendous fear within me I needed to talk to someone about. In the end I saw both my physician and a psychologist. Both agreed this was more psychological than physiological--and the psychologist gave me way more tools that I have been able to carry with me to work with my anxieties than the doctor.
The doctor did give me medication, which helped me process the panic attacks better and find the triggers (I was able to go off the meds after the panic attacks got under control). I will always remember what he said when he handed me my prescription: "This is gas for the engine, the psychologist is teaching you to drive. But you're the one who needs to turn the key in the ignition and go."
I hope you figure out what's best for you -- but even if you see a doctor, I encourage you to find someone you can talk to, someone you trust. Of course, only if and when you want to, if it feels right for you. And for the record it is never, never, never a weakness to ask for help.
Just remember that even if you get "gas" or "driving lessons," you still have to do the driving. Good luck.
Excellent post. Will have to use the car and driver analogy in my group this week. Just excellent.
That's later than I expected. I experimented enough to figure out that I'm heterosexual rather early, even though I had some bi-envy. Then, not too long ago, things changed and now I probably need therapy for it.Yep, well in the end everything I have to say is just from personal experience. My words are in no way meant to be taken as a declaration of THE ONE TRUTHIEST TRUTH!(tm)
I'm sorry you feel you need therapy for your feelings, what about them is bothering you? (feel free to not answer if you don't want to)
Well, as I said, I was heterosexual until not too long ago. Rather suddenly, I found myself with androphilia, or sexual attraction to men. This lasted a couple of months, at which point my orientation changed again. The next change lasted about a day. The change after that a few weeks. Then another few weeks, and again, and again, then a few hours, a few minutes, then a few weeks again. It wasn't just my sexual orientation, but my gender as well. They just keep changing over and over again at random and it's kinda making a mess of my mind. I've experienced quite a number of different orientations, a number of which I wasn't aware existed.
It's brought about quite a bit of stress, confusion, and anxiety, and I've been at a loss for quite a while what to do about it. On the bright side it's brought me quite a bit of new perspectives on quite a number of things, but I'm not really sure if I can consider that worth it.
It's not really therapy that I want. I want medicine or surgery. Something that'll excise this from my mind and body. Not that I really think that's possible, however.
Meophist, disclaimers first: I'm not an expert, and I've not quite gone through what you have, and the following is all very, very, very "grain of salt." And more to the point, you need to do what feels right to you, which can include ignoring the crazy lady from the Internet.
I do know that sometimes we experience...
"No vagina" is a problem for me. "No dick" probably also.Yes, I do need vagina. I truly need my penis however, as I am quite attached to it. Literally.
Someone had to make the joke. Thank you, Freehold, for jumping on that particular grenade. We appreciat it. ;-)
Someone had to make the joke. Thank you, Freehold, for jumping on that particular grenade. We appeciat it. ;-)"No vagina" is a problem for me. "No dick" probably also.Yes, I do need vagina. I truly need my penis however, as I am quite attached to it. Literally.
;-)
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Someone had to make the joke. Thank you, Freehold, for jumping on that particular grenade. We appreciat it. ;-)"No vagina" is a problem for me. "No dick" probably also.Yes, I do need vagina. I truly need my penis however, as I am quite attached to it. Literally.
Watch that grenade. Freehold just finished explaining that he doesn't want to part with any anatomy...
Good luck, Meophist.
And thanks Freehold DM.
(And on the other subject going through this thread, I now have a very inappropriate song going through my head...)
Watch that grenade. Freehold just finished explaining that he doesn't want to part with any anatomy...
To some parts he seems to be attached more than to others.
(And on the other subject going through this thread, I now have a very inappropriate song going through my head...)
How much inappropriate?
"No vagina" is a problem for me. "No dick" probably also.Yes, I do need vagina. I truly need my penis however, as I am quite attached to it. Literally.To be clear, when I was talking about that, I was more referring to on myself, rather than on somebody else.
Due to my shifting orientation, I don't really care in the long term about what my potential partner has. In the short term, it might gross me out or turn me on, but I think I can go through with it regardless.
On me, despite my shifting gender, I would prefer the female parts to male parts, although would like both if possible.
intriguing, as ever.
On me, despite my shifting gender, I would prefer the female parts to male parts, although would like both if possible.
That actually is possible... I could post links, but I think I might violate some kind of posting policy by doing so.
Having just finished RotRL with me as GM, one of my friends is planning on starting us a Jade Regent campaign, including using the romance rules. Most of us already have our character's figured out; I'm planning on taking the trait Childhood Crush in regards to Sandru as a male character (playing a shy, niave fighter in his late teens coming to terms with his sexuality and attraction to Sandru). My fiance was invited to play by the GM as well, and he is very excited as it will be the second D&D/PF game he'll have ever played in (the first being a short one-shot last Summer; he's picking up the rules very fast, I'm happy to say). Anyway, several weeks ago we added a new player to the group who we met through the Paizo forums (not going to name names, as they are an active poster) and we've played a handful of sessions with him. Things have been going fine and he has been consistant so he was invited to be in Jade Regent as well.
However, my friend (the one who will be GMing the game) emailed me and a couple of the other players late last night about a post the new player had made on Facebook, a rather strong anti-gay remark (he's appearently Mormon according to the post). Though he hasn't said anything directly to us at the table (sexuality hasn't come up, so I'm not sure if he is aware that I am gay), it is clear that he has a significant problem with homosexuality and the topic will come up during Jade Regent (see above). The GM was mildly offended by the post (also a Mormon) as he said it made him and his religion look bad to others when he does his best to not judge (he has nothing against homosexuality- he did invite my fiance to come play after all, though is aware most Mormons do), and was concerned that it might sour the experience for my fiance if he started expressing these strong anti-gay opinions at the table either in or out of character when my character's sexuality comes into play. He and a couple of the other players were debating whether or not to remove him from the group (either for the game or permanently) so it isn't an issue, and because they honestly were upset by his remark.
I was, oddly enough as one of the non-religious and one of the gay members, was the lone person calling for him to remain among us, as much as it pained me to argue on his behalf after what I had read, saying that it is a role-playing game and he should be capable of role-playing tolerance even if he isn't, and that we shouldn't remove him from the group until he actually causes a problem; though we certianly should talk to him before starting the campaign. I told them that we would be just as terrible of people if we turned someone away simply because of their beliefs and that if he expresses that he has a problem with it to us in person we can give him the choice of learning to deal or leaving with no hard feelings, rather than tell him off and chase him away and give him the illusion of merit to his hatred. They grudgingly agreed.
I sure hope this doesn't come back to bite me in the ass come the first session either this weekend or the next (whenever we finally schedule it). Also, I have great friends.
Thoughts?
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Ugh, social stuff. I have no good answer to this.
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Having just finished RotRL with me as GM, one of my friends is planning on starting us a Jade Regent campaign, including using the romance rules. Most of us already have our character's figured out; I'm planning on taking the trait Childhood Crush in regards to Sandru as a male character (playing a shy, niave fighter in his late teens coming to terms with his sexuality and attraction to Sandru). My fiance was invited to play by the GM as well, and he is very excited as it will be the second D&D/PF game he'll have ever played in (the first being a short one-shot last Summer; he's picking up the rules very fast, I'm happy to say). Anyway, several weeks ago we added a new player to the group who we met through the Paizo forums (not going to name names, as they are an active poster) and we've played a handful of sessions with him. Things have been going fine and he has been consistant so he was invited to be in Jade Regent as well.
However, my friend (the one who will be GMing the game) emailed me and a couple of the other players late last night about a post the new player had made on Facebook, a rather strong anti-gay remark (he's appearently Mormon according to the post). Though he hasn't said anything directly to us at the table (sexuality hasn't come up, so I'm not sure if he is aware that I am gay), it is clear that he has a significant problem with homosexuality and the topic will come up during Jade Regent (see above). The GM was mildly offended by the post (also a Mormon) as he said it made him and his religion look bad to others when he does his best to not judge (he has nothing against homosexuality- he did invite my fiance to come play after all, though is aware most Mormons do), and was concerned that it might sour the experience for my fiance if he started expressing these strong anti-gay opinions at the table either in or out of character when my character's sexuality comes into play. He and a couple of the other players were debating whether or not to remove him from the group (either for the game...
That's a hard situation any way you look at it.
My two cents (with grain of salt, etc. etc.):
I would share these concerns with your GM, and maybe ask him if he'd willing to have a chat with you and the potential problem player about the situation (I'd leave the other players out only so the problem player doesn't feel ganged up on, and the GM is understanding of and is willing to defend their position). The GM should potentially be a good go between, though, because he should also understand where this guy is coming from--however backward his view, it still comes from somewhere and he probably has a good perspective on the situation.
Between you and the GM, explain the situation openly -- he said a homophobic thing, you and others in the group are TLGB, the game he has been invited to may have homosexuality in it, AND that despite what he said, you are okay with him being in the group--indeed, you are PUSHING for him to be in the group--but want to be clear what the situation is and that derisive remarks or other intolerant behavior will not be let to slide by. Emphasize how and why he is welcome, but simply that certain assumptions will have to be left at the door.
I might also say that if the situation makes HIM uncomfortable and he wants to back out on his own, that you would be understanding and hope you could play with him some other time when he feels less out of place. And indeed--if the situation is clear to him, he may well want to back out of his own accord. But if he is in and in to stay, then he should be fully aware of what he's getting into and will be expected to be respectful of other players (as players always are expected to be respectful, I hope).
In any case, good luck. There's no easy answer to this but it always starts with open, civil, honest communication.
I am not a man, but I was 18 when I accepted that I was bisexual. It was a realization too, but more in the sense that I finally acknowledged certain feelings I had been trying to ignore or push away.
Speaking from personal experience(and only personal experience) It seems like it often takes Bi people a bit longer to internalize and accept their sexual identity than it does for strictly homosexual individuals.
I’m not sure why but it might just have to do with societal pressures as opposed to not truly knowing what you yourself are about. If you are gay, you can try and hide it but ultimately there is no good release valve for the pressure you feel in living a lie, while if you are Bi you can run with your more socially acceptable desires for the opposite sex and blend in and deny your feelings for a lot longer instead of having them drive you insane.
Who knows in the end, but it might be a contributing factor.
I've honestly never heard of that but I can imagine how mind bending that would be. I'm sorry you are suffering and hope you can either find a way to stabilize your condition or come to feel ok with it.Err... I guess I wrote that when in a bit of a depressive mood. It's not the worst thing ever or anything, although I'm not going to say it's full of joy. I've managed to learn a lot about human sexuality, particularly of how it extends past, well, humans.
I still don't know if I really like the change or not. I've gotten to experience a lot of things that I normally wouldn't, so that isn't too bad.
In the end, I've been afflicted with aspergers and social anxiety for pretty much my entire life, so this is just one more condition I need to learn how to deal with.
Ah I see, still, it sounds like you have alot to deal with. I hope things become easier for you over time and you should feel free to talk about your experiences all you would like to here.
The situation is...
I would like to offer some sage advice like my fellows but honestly that situation just has me cringing inside. I'm decently fair with awkwardness when it comes straight at me in a serious situation but when it side swipes me when I am just trying to have fun I'm not sure how exactly to handle it. There seems to be a whole lot of factors to consider here so I'm not really sure what to say.
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Stuff
Interesting situation, but i agree with you. I wouldn't just kick him or ban him out right. I think talking to him first either as a group or let the GM do it likely best. Explain the situation and the themes of the game. Ask him to be honest if it will really bother him. If yes then likely it would be a bad idea, if he says no. Then give it a try and see how it goes. Maybe it will work out and maybe not.
Either way i would be interested to hear how things unfold.
I'll probably end up writing a joint email with the GM laying things out as clearly as possible and edit it carefully to avoid being confrontational, since we rarely have a chance to get together outside of game days (we play once every 2-3 weeks; half the group commutes in from a couple towns over), and because that way the player will not be put so much on the spot and feel pressured to respond quickly- he'll have the time to mull over what he wants to do and answer as carefully as he would like.
Hopefully the campaign will be starting up soon, within the next few weeks (as I am really eager to play a character after having GMed for a year with RotRL), and I'll keep things updated here as time progresses. Things like this have a tendency to bite me back (horribly unlucky), so hopefully he'll take the conversation well.
I'll probably end up writing a joint email with the GM laying things out as clearly as possible and edit it carefully to avoid being confrontational, since we rarely have a chance to get together outside of game days (we play once every 2-3 weeks; half the group commutes in from a couple towns over), and because that way the player will not be put so much on the spot and feel pressured to respond quickly- he'll have the time to mull over what he wants to do and answer as carefully as he would like.
Hopefully the campaign will be starting up soon, within the next few weeks (as I am really eager to play a character after having GMed for a year with RotRL), and I'll keep things updated here as time progresses. Things like this have a tendency to bite me back (horribly unlucky), so hopefully he'll take the conversation well.
Is there an emoticon that represents that expression where I am smiling supportivly but also gritting my teeth as I brace for an impact? I would like to use it here.
:}
That kind of looks like that to me.
:}
That kind of looks like that to me.
Lol. Well done.
:} indeed.
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I like emoticons. I wish I could use them in verbal communication. It would make my life so much easier since I don't seem to be able to communicate emotion at all. It would certainly save time on misunderstandings. :)
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Print off small signs and attach them to popsicle sticks. Then whenever you need to express an emotion be all like: "Wait! I've got something for this." Then dig through your backpack, satchel, purse, etc. until you find the one(s) you need and hold them up while talking.
Print off small signs and attach them to popsicle sticks. Then whenever you need to express an emotion be all like: "Wait! I've got something for this." Then dig through your backpack, satchel, purse, etc. until you find the one(s) you need and hold them up while talking.
I will admit to having seriously considered doing just that....but the people who I need it most with would just get pissed off by it. *sigh* People make no sense.
Have you ever read The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss? Amazing continuation of his Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy (and it contained homosexual characters so it is vaguely on topic). Anyway, there is a reclusive warrior-race in the book that rarely speak and seldom if ever show emotion on their faces, believing it to be childish and rude at best and barbaric at worst. They communicated via a complicated sign language, but in addition to making words with their right hand (I believe, it has been a bit since I've read it) they would have their off hand sign their emotion very precisely, down to degrees of whatever they were feeling. It is a good, if complex, system. I think the world should adopt it.
Have you ever read The Wise Man's Fear by Patrick Rothfuss? Amazing continuation of his Kingkiller Chronicles trilogy (and it contained homosexual characters so it is vaguely on topic). Anyway, there is a reclusive warrior-race in the book that rarely speak and seldom if ever show emotion on their faces, believing it to be childish and rude at best and barbaric at worst. They communicated via a complicated sign language, but in addition to making words with their right hand (I believe, it has been a bit since I've read it) they would have their off hand sign their emotion very precisely, down to degrees of whatever they were feeling. It is a good, if complex, system. I think the world should adopt it.
I hadn't ever heard of that book before. I will add it to my to-read list. It sounds interesting. And that system of expression sounds really awesome. It would save so much effort guessing.
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Unless you're looking to be romantically involved or shipping someone, I don't really see the fascination with having someone with the opposite orientation game with you.
I mean, you'll never see someone say, "I'm not into chubby chicks, but I sure would love to game with a 'chubby chaser'" or "I'm not really into dating outside my race, but I'd love to game with some interracial couples".
To me, it just seems like it really shouldn't ever be the deciding point of whether or not to game with them.
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Unless you're looking to be romantically involved or shipping someone, I don't really see the fascination with having someone with the opposite orientation game with you.
I mean, you'll never see someone say, "I'm not into chubby chicks, but I sure would love to game with a 'chubby chaser'" or "I'm not really into dating outside my race, but I'd love to game with some interracial couples".
To me, it just seems like it really shouldn't ever be the deciding point of whether or not to game with them.
I have friends that are homosexual. They are not really into gaming though. I wish they were because the people that I game with could use the exposure to maybe learn to tone down the homophobic comments that they make during the game. I have asked but they don't seem to get it. I guess what I was hoping is that when confronted with an actual LBGT interaction that they might realize that they are talking about a person(s).
Then again that maybe too much to ask from a bunch of gamer geek shut-ins.
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Unless you're looking to be romantically involved or shipping someone, I don't really see the fascination with having someone with the opposite orientation game with you.
As much as RepeepeR's reasons seem laudable, I've gotta agree here. I've played with a lot of people on the LGBTQ spectrum. And by a lot I actually mean so many I'm having trouble coming up with all of them (I LARPed for a while, which means I gamed with a lot of people of all sexualitites in passing, so to speak), and have a few such people in my current game, and I never noticed any differences between gaming with them and gaming with straight people.
I noticed individual differences, of course, but nothing that correlated to sexuality. One of the most awesome guys I've ever gamed with, and the only GM I ever flat-out walked out on a game from, were both bisexual, for example. And, perhaps not coincidentally, the first is a wonderful person, while the second is a manipulative narcissist.
I game with folks I enjoy gaming with (and try and recruit everyone I'm friends with, though I don't go in for the hard sell)...but the idea of recruiting based on something like their sexuality (or race, or religion, or anything like that) is alien to me.
Of course, I'm blessed with a group of players who don't use gay as a pejorative*, have no real bias against LGBT people (or most other people), and are generally cool folks. If I had someone in my game who I really thought might benefit from a learning experience of the sort RepeepeR's talking about I might be tempted. And then again, maybe not, as the idea just feels wrong to me on some level that defies ready definition or explanation.
*With one exception. Who is trying to redefine the word as having nothing to do with homosexuality. I've tried to explain that language doesn't quite work that way...
Of course, I'm blessed with a group of players who don't use gay as a pejorative*, have no real bias against LGBT people (or most other people), and are generally cool folks. If I had someone in my game who I really thought might benefit from a learning experience of the sort RepeepeR's talking about I might be tempted. And then again, maybe not, as the idea just feels wrong to me on some level that defies ready definition or explanation.
*With one exception. Who is trying to redefine the word as having nothing to do with homosexuality. I've tried to explain that language doesn't quite work that way...
It's funny because I know gay men that use it as pejorative. In fact, the only people that I've met personally that have been offended were not gay but felt that they had to protect the gay community.
It's used to describe things that are overly cheesy or campy. And even the gay guys use it. It's almost like it's two different words (homosexual and campy). Language is funny like that, where it horribly offends some people others find it perfectly acceptable.
I actually feel that if you're going to try and fight the language (a silly prospect), you should fight to remove the labels. People shouldn't be gay / lesbian / bi. It should just be person A likes women or person B likes men and women. I mean seriously, anytime that you label someone by their sexual preferences it's pretty offensive. Even if someone likes thicker women that's no reason to call them a chubby chaser, and if a girl likes black men, telling her she has jungle fever is insulting to both the girl and the men she likes. Do we have labels for people who like their women extremely well built or for people that like their women thin? If you did, how hard would it be to not be offensive?
But yeah, language is language. Language is a reflection of society, not the other way around. It will evolve when society evolves. Trying to control it like that is futile. When the English speaking society becomes comfortable with homosexuality as a whole, the connection between the two different meanings will be lost and either one of them falls out use or they become two distinct words.
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Unless you're looking to be romantically involved or shipping someone, I don't really see the fascination with having someone with the opposite orientation game with you.
I mean, you'll never see someone say, "I'm not into chubby chicks, but I sure would love to game with a 'chubby chaser'" or "I'm not really into dating outside my race, but I'd love to game with some interracial couples".
To me, it just seems like it really shouldn't ever be the deciding point of whether or not to game with them.
I have friends that are homosexual. They are not really into gaming though. I wish they were because the people that I game with could use the exposure to maybe learn to tone down the homophobic comments that they make during the game. I have asked but they don't seem to get it. I guess what I was hoping is that when confronted with an actual LBGT interaction that they might realize that they are talking about a person(s).
Then again that maybe too much to ask from a bunch of gamer geek shut-ins.
This. People might be intolerant of various aspects of sexuality, but people are especially intolerant of LGBTQ persons and are very open about saying intolerant remarks about them. I've seen that myself in gamer groups that don't include openly LGBTQ members. As a common example, the phrase "that's so gay" used as "that's so lame/stupid" (a phrase I have berated my own friends for using) -- absolutely more intentional hateful things have been said, but it's that kind of passive homophobia that people think is "harmless" (but it's not) that needs to stop as well.
More to the point, I think it's not about wanting to game with a specific person of a preference per se, it's about increasing general visibility of LGTBQ persons in the gamer community. If they are visible and become part of the norm, it's more likely that acceptance and respect will be built.
It is NOT the same as something like an interracial couple (in most places) because very fortunately, that has something that has become accepted in our society (although not necessarily everywhere). I can see something like a white gamer bringing his black girlfriend home to his D&D group even in the 70s being a potential cause of conflict or invitation for insensitive remarks. Why did it stop being an issue? Because it became common, it became visible, it became accepted.
And trying to compare the difficulties and disrespect LGTBQ persons go through--REMEMBER, in many places, a gay person is still at risk of being ganged up on and beaten to death for their sexuality--to that of, say, a "chubby chaser" is way, way, way off the mark.
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Of course, I'm blessed with a group of players who don't use gay as a pejorative*, have no real bias against LGBT people (or most other people), and are generally cool folks. If I had someone in my game who I really thought might benefit from a learning experience of the sort RepeepeR's talking about I might be tempted. And then again, maybe not, as the idea just feels wrong to me on some level that defies ready definition or explanation.
*With one exception. Who is trying to redefine the word as having nothing to do with homosexuality. I've tried to explain that language doesn't quite work that way...
It's funny because I know gay men that use it as pejorative. In fact, the only people that I've met personally that have been offended were not gay but felt that they had to protect the gay community.
It's used to describe things that are overly cheesy or campy. And even the gay guys use it. It's almost like it's two different words (homosexual and campy). Language is funny like that, where it horribly offends some people others find it perfectly acceptable.
I actually feel that if you're going to try and fight the language (a silly prospect), you should fight to remove the labels. People shouldn't be gay / lesbian / bi. It should just be person A likes women or person B likes men and women. I mean seriously, anytime that you label someone by their sexual preferences it's pretty offensive. Even if someone likes thicker women that's no reason to call them a chubby chaser, and if a girl likes black men, telling her she has jungle fever is insulting to both the girl and the men she likes. Do we have labels for people who like their women extremely well built or for people that like their women thin? If you did, how hard would it be to not be offensive?
But yeah, language is language. Language is a reflection of society, not the other way around. It will evolve when society evolves. Trying to control it like that is futile. When the English speaking society...
No. It is not an acceptable word. It is not used by GLTB persons where I come from now, and where I have met those who did use the phrase the way homophobes did, told me it was because they wanted to avoid standing out, not because they thought it was acceptable (do you think ANY gay person would want to refer to themselves as "lame/stupid"? Really?). Using "gay" derogatorily is nothing but hateful, even if it's passive, even if it's "done all the time."
People used to use the "n-word" all the time. It did not magically "phase out" when black people became "accepted" (there's STILL a lot of racism today, that acceptance process is STILL going on). It became known as the "n-word" because people actively worked against its use in everyday language, and the same needs to happen for using "gay" as a pejorative.