The LGBT Gamer Community Thread.


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thejeff wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:
I feel I'm missing something. Has Paizo introduced another LGBT+ character? What's this thread you guys are mentioning?

Not to my knowledge.

The thread is here, and it's in theory just a general discussion of LGBT characters and issues in RPGs and how people include/treat them.

It's obviously drifted into real-world stuff a few times and is probably potentially triggering for some people in a variety of ways. I don't feel it's as bad as some people here seem to, but then I've been participating in it.

I do find it interesting to contrast the attitude in that thread that nothing bad's being said and it's just open discussion and Paizo is censoring us and the posts over here saying it's triggering and exhausting and "multi-day anxiety" attacks and people staying out of it to avoid the conflict.

The very "shutting down of dialogue" that's cited as a reason not to moderate is happening, but for the opposite reasons and in the opposite direction.

I don't see most of that thread as too bad, but then I'm a straight, cis guy. In a way, it's all academic to me, not personal. Which is why I try to listen, even when I don't really understand.

For me, I think it’s a case of moth to a flame. (A bizarrely appropriate metaphor given my avatar, I realize. :) )

In case anyone’s interested in one trans woman’s perspective, I’ve posted a long bit of not much, really, below. I’ve put it in a spoiler because I’m addressing, in part, statements from the other thread that I found hurtful enough not to post directly in this thread, which is too wonderful for that. I apologize if even so my response is too hostile, dragging things out best left alone, or otherwise making things less fun and friendly than they could be. I may have misjudged the situation again, despite my best efforts.

Spoiler:
I’m interested in the topic, but I find it harrowing to run into posts about why LGB, let alone T, identities are or should be inconceivable in pre-modern –ish campaign settings such as those common to Pathfinder games. When it gets to the point that people bandy about the idea that, say, trans people are the creation of modernity, or, goddesses help us, a putative late modern “anomie” specifically, I have to struggle not to either freak out or just shut down.

I have nothing against addressing historical specificity in-game and out – one of the things I think about professionally in real life is just what sorts of identities that from our perspective we might characterize in LGBT terms were operative in various ancient cultures, and how. In my field, it’s pretty much standard to warn that, for example, “homosexuality” isn’t quite how the classical Greeks would think about it (though the corollary, that “heterosexuality” wasn’t on the table either often seems a bit more elusive). In other work that I do, there is a lot of discussion of what might get lost in translation when “transgender” is applied to identities that emerged in a non-Western context, as well.

That said, the pattern-making impulse, as well as that to reclamatory history, is strong. When people make sweeping statements based on arguments from silence, or the accident that the world and history is a big place, it’s hard for me not to take it personally. There are enough places online where I can find people declaring, at length, that people like me are not women, never will be women, and have sinister ulterior motives encouraged by some cabal of evil scientists (and similarly for trans men, and heaven help us if we start to think about the implications for how we think about sex as well as gender). It pops up in the margins of much mainstream material about the parts of LGBT communities I feel I fit into, and it gets worse when one considers things like some branches of radical feminism, for example, though as a feminist that is part of my intellectual and political heritage that I would like to explore.

With all of that, though, I am tremendously privileged. I’m a bit of a shrinking violet mostly, but I’m officially this side of normal (I’ve never been diagnosed with clinical anxiety disorders or depression, for example, and I’m not about to claim that I know better), I’m white and middle-class in a largish Canadian town, with a supportive family, and fit in with most people’s expectations of something that I can get by, though I wouldn’t like to speculate as to how my gender most often gets read. The worst thing that’s happened to me so far as a trans woman (outside of one incident in high school before I could even name myself as trans) is having homophobic slurs hurled at me by strangers passing by, but I’ve never been followed home (which has happened to cis women I know) or physically attacked.

I’m just worn down by low-level hostility and anxiety about what might happen if someone decides to be nasty because they realize I’m trans. Maybe I’m just neurotic. However, if this is how I get by day-to-day, I can easily imagine that folks who have had or have to face much more significant harassment, or violence, possibly with fewer supports to help them do so, would find it that much more difficult, exhausting, or worse, to confront some of what was going on in the other thread.


Jessica Price wrote:
Arcane Addict wrote:

Assuming you're correct about what thejeff is saying that clears it up a lot. Thank you!

You also mention people feeling hurt by comments in that thread, which makes me second-guess what I said in my previous post. For what its worth I didn't mean to bagatellize anyone or their perspectives by what I said regarding the importance of one's sexuality in regards to such discussions. If I did I'm sincerely sorry.

Oh gosh, no, I wasn't referring to you. :-)

Oh, I know you weren't! You just made me realize that I might've been insensitive myself in my previous post.

Qunnessaa (by the by, how do you pronounce that?!), thank you for saying this. I've never come across the idea that transgenderism is a modern invention before. I actually never considered it in a historical context at all, now that I think about it. Now that I know I can start to understand, if only just a bit, how invalidated it can make you(in the personal sense as well as the general one) feel. Nobody likes to be told they're deluding themselves and that they're fake. It destroys the sense of self. I guess I needed to hear that in its entirety. I'm sad to say that I probably wouldn't have realized it on my own. I can be obtuse that way... You might have just prevented me from accidentally insulting someone and embarrassing myself.

P.S. You don't sound hostile at all. As a fellow bad judge of situations I thought you might like to know that :)


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Thanks, Arcane Addict. It's been a trying few days, and some of them have left me feeling rather less sensitive to what my contribution to various conversations might lead than I flatter myself I should be able to do.

But I don't think you should feel sad that you might not have realized about some of the historical context around trans* identities. In my part of the world, the terminology of being "trans*" isn't as widespread as one might think even today, which leads to things like what, in retrospect, now seems a both hilariously and painfully awkward conversation with my landlord when I was signing my lease last year. Before that, on the way to coming out, I didn't even know that there were words to describe what I was feeling, and that I could do something about it in ways that were at least marginally socially acceptable, until I was nineteen or so, and I am trans. It can be a difficult, though sometimes exhilarating, thing to try to wrap one's head around, even as one's living it.

Silliness about names:
I've never really thought about how to pronounce the name of my most common alias here, apart from the rule of thumb that double vowels represent a lengthening of the sound; I got it from a dictionary of drow Elven online longer ago than I care to admit, and it didn't have a pronunciation guide. I just kind of guessed it would be something like Cóo-ness-áh (with a secondary stress on the last syllable), or maybe K(y)óo-ness-áh (with the consonantal y very short). Why, yes, I am a huge geek about these sorts of things! :)


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Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

Liberty's Edge

Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

I'm on board with it!

I really want to see a version of The Maltese Falcon with a sexuality-flip (plus gender-flips as necessary), for example (much like the race-flipped versions of Othello). Y'know, everyone who's straight in that piece being LGBT and vice versa?

It's a particularly interesting example because so much of the cast (sadly all villains) are, in fact, gay, and it's even set in San Francisco. The piece is just begging for this treatment, really.


Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

Try selling a setting full of asexuals. That's even less likely to fly.

Why? Because some circles would either say they don't exist, or that they aren't part of LGBT.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Deadmanwalking wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

I'm on board with it!

I really want to see a version of The Maltese Falcon with a sexuality-flip (plus gender-flips as necessary), for example (much like the race-flipped versions of Othello). Y'know, everyone who's straight in that piece being LGBT and vice versa?

It's a particularly interesting example because so much of the cast (sadly all villains) are, in fact, gay, and it's even set in San Francisco. The piece is just begging for this treatment, really.

I was really tired the one time I saw it, and I ended up falling asleep.

It sounds like an interesting concept, though. ^_^

Silver Crusade Contributor

Icyshadow wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

Try selling a setting full of asexuals. That's even less likely to fly.

Why? Because some circles would either say they don't exist, or that they aren't part of LGBT.

I could see it very easily, actually. The Forever War basically ends that way...


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Apologies in advance, this is going to be a big one. The recent few days have made me realize just how frustrating the combination of things fate has tossed my way feel. My father is a staunch traditionalist and a mildly chauvinistic jerk who thinks a "real man" is a boisterous, woman-charming jerk. He also is at least to some degree religious. I'm an asexual agnostic, and neither of those facts even compute in his mind, which made my high school days rather miserable. I felt like I was worthless due to not meeting those standards, but I also dismissed them as stupid but wasn't given the chance to voice that complaint out.

Sorry about venting it here, but I feel like I needed some place where I'd be heard, where I feel I'd belong.

But perhaps that's why I tend to take exception when the topic slips off to the "free speech" thing. I still think that nearly everyone (there are exceptions) deserves to have their voice heard, even if their opinion is an unpopular one.

Oh, but I'm not done. There are so many superstitions and assumptions about Jewish people too that it's laughable. Especially ones related to the genitals. So not only am I "broken" in society's view at large (at least Finnish society), but from my Jewish roots I'm "broken" for not having the drive to go and find a woman to marry. It's just an utter mess, and I'm not surprised that I'm constantly on edge when I think about it for a moment. It REALLY doesn't help that a lot of times I bring it up someone either says "guilt complex" or "Jewish card" as if it was as bad as invoking Godwin's Law, if not even worse, to point out oppression of the Jewish. Dismissal laced with mockery is the worst kind of silencing, so far as I am concerned.


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Hello! My name is Aniuś and I'm a nonbinary trans person. c: I'd like to say more, but I can't really think of anything right now.


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Welcome aboard, Aniuś !

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Welcome to the thread!


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Related to my earlier post, I find it ironic that my mother is less judgmental about who I am, but is also a homophobe and mildly racist.


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Thanks everyone c:

On the subject of that other thread on lgbt characters in your games, honestly the argument there just kind of glides over my eyes without being taken in (must be a better way to phrase that but I'm tired). That might be my brain protecting me from the stressful nature of the thing.

Also lol at people thinking trans or gender variant people have no place in 'pre-modern' settings. I call myself a bæddel in Old English, and argr in Old Norse. Those words have existed for over a thousand years to describe people like me, who certainly existed in the world of Germanic heathenry. There's more I could say on the matter but it's a very abstract subject and I'm tired.


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Shadow Knight 12 wrote:
I feel I'm missing something. Has Paizo introduced another LGBT+ character? What's this thread you guys are mentioning?

I thought I'd make a thread asking people how they portray LGBT stuff in their home games, and some people had to rant about why they don't think it belongs in Pathfinder games. Granted, a lot of stuff got deleted before I could read it, so I'm not fully appraised on what happened.

As for my opinion on free speech, this is a private hangout. People who post here agree to certain rules on what they can say. Among those are not to be overly aggressive, not to be rude, and not to be a bigot. If you can't abide by that, you get shown the door. Only way to maintain a sense of community decency.


Icyshadow wrote:
Related to my earlier post, I find it ironic that my mother is less judgmental about who I am, but is also a homophobe and mildly racist.

My grandmother is totally fine with gay people and gay marriage, and is a hardcore feminist all for women's choice in all things and against authoritarianism and all that other good left wing stuff that resonates with me. She also really hates transwomen (she doesn't know I am one). She sees Caitlyn Jenner as a gigantic slap in the face to everything feminism has accomplished. Like, she got crazy pissed off when that article and interview came out. She also dislikes people from India and refuses to stop calling East Asians orientals.


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Hello! My name is Aniuś and I'm a nonbinary trans person. c: I'd like to say more, but I can't really think of anything right now.

You know things about transgenderism in Anglo-Saxon and Norse cultures. I would very much like to learn these things.


Rosita the Riveter wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:
I feel I'm missing something. Has Paizo introduced another LGBT+ character? What's this thread you guys are mentioning?
I thought I'd make a thread asking people how they portray LGBT stuff in their home games, and some people had to rant about why they don't think it belongs in Pathfinder games. Granted, a lot of stuff got deleted before I could read it, so I'm not fully appraised on what happened.

I was following it pretty closely, though I may not have seen everything that was deleted. I don't remember a lot of "doesn't belong in PF".

There was a fairly long derail about quasi-historical games and how open LGBT people will be more problematic there, which is a more reasonable discussion, I think. OTOH, I can still see it as being upsetting, especially if you jump into a middle post and some of the context has been lost.

Silver Crusade

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Annoying non-sequitur time:

The current CEO of American Apparel in an interview said she would love to see Caitlyn Jenner as the company's spokeswoman/modal.... but misgendered her throughout the whole interview...

"We want you to make our company look better, but we don't want to actually treat you like an actual person" apparently.

Silver Crusade Contributor

thejeff wrote:
Rosita the Riveter wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:
I feel I'm missing something. Has Paizo introduced another LGBT+ character? What's this thread you guys are mentioning?
I thought I'd make a thread asking people how they portray LGBT stuff in their home games, and some people had to rant about why they don't think it belongs in Pathfinder games. Granted, a lot of stuff got deleted before I could read it, so I'm not fully appraised on what happened.

I was following it pretty closely, though I may not have seen everything that was deleted. I don't remember a lot of "doesn't belong in PF".

There was a fairly long derail about quasi-historical games and how open LGBT people will be more problematic there, which is a more reasonable discussion, I think. OTOH, I can still see it as being upsetting, especially if you jump into a middle post and some of the context has been lost.

I've been watching it closely. (Self-care was never my strong suit.)

There was very little "doesn't belong in Pathfinder/Golarion in general". Some "I won't have people bringing it up in my campaign" did appear, though, as well as some debate about whether people should respect others' [vulnerability to sensitive topics/unfettered exchange of opinions].

There was also the historical accuracy discussion, although based on my personal opinion, as well as some PM conversation with others involved, there was a lot more arguing with strawmen on both sides than actual conversation. (I was guilty of this as well - I've since cleared the air with the other poster, though.)


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Icy: that's rough. Reminds me a good fair bit about my own parents. I can still remember when my dad sat me down and gave me a talk about the difference between 'feeling strong affection for friends' and 'feeling strong romantic feelings towards women' and how I shouldn't get them confused like I have been doing. Gee Dad, thanks for letting me know that you don't think I can figure out the difference between wanting to hang out with someone, and wanting to kiss someone.

Doublewrongbad when I end up having to come out a half dozen times before my parents realize I'm serious/remember. The denial is strong with them.

The whole 'free speech' thing has been a bit difficult for me too. Growing up in my family/church, especially around my parents' son, if I wanted to be heard, I had to talk over people, and that's been a hard habit to unlearn. I still get a lot of the 'is it rude for me to speak up here?' or 'should I just start talking to refute that?' when talking to people IRL. Online I just tend to get more 'do I really actually have something worthwhile to say for people to read?' And usually say 'no', and delete the whole thing and go back to lurking.

But on the other hand, sometimes people are just wrong in a way that shouldn't be tolerated, even in speech, in your own home, so to speak. In your own house you can say what you want. But we're in Paizo's house, and Paizo gets to choose what you're not allowed to say. An issue (what can/can't people say in X venue) that I've also been running into with my local Pathfinder group, which is why I haven't been at the local one in a few months.

Also: Hi, I'm Mandy, long time lurker, second time poster. And I, for one, welcome the idea that I can play in a setting declared by the game's publisher as canon, where trans women like me actually exist, instead of having to make my own. (Not that I haven't been working on my own gameworlds anyway, mind...)


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Qunnessaa wrote:

Thanks, Arcane Addict. It's been a trying few days, and some of them have left me feeling rather less sensitive to what my contribution to various conversations might lead than I flatter myself I should be able to do.

But I don't think you should feel sad that you might not have realized about some of the historical context around trans* identities. In my part of the world, the terminology of being "trans*" isn't as widespread as one might think even today, which leads to things like what, in retrospect, now seems a both hilariously and painfully awkward conversation with my landlord when I was signing my lease last year. Before that, on the way to coming out, I didn't even know that there were words to describe what I was feeling, and that I could do something about it in ways that were at least marginally socially acceptable, until I was nineteen or so, and I am trans. It can be a difficult, though sometimes exhilarating, thing to try to wrap one's head around, even as one's living it.

** spoiler omitted **

I thought you were just a quintesson, spelled differently, or possibly female. It's why I tried to avoid being found innocent of any crimes in your presence.


Icyshadow wrote:

Apologies in advance, this is going to be a big one. The recent few days have made me realize just how frustrating the combination of things fate has tossed my way feel. My father is a staunch traditionalist and a mildly chauvinistic jerk who thinks a "real man" is a boisterous, woman-charming jerk. He also is at least to some degree religious. I'm an asexual agnostic, and neither of those facts even compute in his mind, which made my high school days rather miserable. I felt like I was worthless due to not meeting those standards, but I also dismissed them as stupid but wasn't given the chance to voice that complaint out.

Sorry about venting it here, but I feel like I needed some place where I'd be heard, where I feel I'd belong.

But perhaps that's why I tend to take exception when the topic slips off to the "free speech" thing. I still think that nearly everyone (there are exceptions) deserves to have their voice heard, even if their opinion is an unpopular one.

Oh, but I'm not done. There are so many superstitions and assumptions about Jewish people too that it's laughable. Especially ones related to the genitals. So not only am I "broken" in society's view at large (at least Finnish society), but from my Jewish roots I'm "broken" for not having the drive to go and find a woman to marry. It's just an utter mess, and I'm not surprised that I'm constantly on edge when I think about it for a moment. It REALLY doesn't help that a lot of times I bring it up someone either says "guilt complex" or "Jewish card" as if it was as bad as invoking Godwin's Law, if not even worse, to point out oppression of the Jewish. Dismissal laced with mockery is the worst kind of silencing, so far as I am concerned.

I never knew, chummer. I'm sorry to hear your father is being a jerk. Manliness is important to me too,but it stops at making someone feel uncomfortable or inadequate(unless I am trying to scare off a rival using a defense mechanism).

And worry not. I am circumcised too. It's common in the us, and there is a movement against it. Few truly care whether or not you have been snipped unless it is for religious purposes.


Icyshadow wrote:
Related to my earlier post, I find it ironic that my mother is less judgmental about who I am, but is also a homophobe and mildly racist.

Guess who's coming over for thanksgiving this year?!


Welcome mandy!


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Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Hello! My name is Aniuś and I'm a nonbinary trans person. c: I'd like to say more, but I can't really think of anything right now.

Dzień dobry


Drejk wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Hello! My name is Aniuś and I'm a nonbinary trans person. c: I'd like to say more, but I can't really think of anything right now.
Dzień dobry

Dzień dobry! Co słychać? c:

(Używam 'on' pronouns po Polsku)

(Oh and I use 'they' pronouns in English)


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Rosita the Riveter wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
Hello! My name is Aniuś and I'm a nonbinary trans person. c: I'd like to say more, but I can't really think of anything right now.
You know things about transgenderism in Anglo-Saxon and Norse cultures. I would very much like to learn these things.

It is a subject I am very passionate about! I have studied and deeply contemplated it for ages, though I still feel as though I'm only beginning to understand the surface.

I'll link you in private to my tag on my blog where I spend my time thinking about this stuff.


Icyshadow wrote:


Try selling a setting full of asexuals. That's even less likely to fly.

Its really different from most peoples experiences. To most people not having those desires at all would make someone almost a different species. (despite the fact that they should remember a time in their life when they did feel that way)

Its hard to demonstrate a lack of something.\: show rather than tell (is rocket raccoon asexual or just not seeing any comparable females? Story wise they look exactly the same)

It removes a lot of possible character motivations.

Setting wise... why are there still people? Cloning? People doing it anyway? How did the planet wind up that way etc.

Quote:
Why? Because some circles would either say they don't exist, or that they aren't part of LGBT.

I don't think it fits in the catagory that well. Other than being different from "standard" there's not much in common. (LG is a lot closer to hetero than asexual is to either)

The lack of a need to congregate or find each other also renders us pretty much invisible. Hard for people to be riled up about things that they don't know exist.


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Being 'different from standard' seems sufficient reason to include asexuality/aromanticism in the category to me. One other acronym that I've seen bandied about to combat the increasingly-large QUILTBAG of acronym soup is 'Marginalized Orientations, Gender Identities, and Intersex', or MOGII. Seems fair to me. I mostly don't use it because most folks haven't heard of it, and it doesn't roll off the tongue so well.

As for settings full of asexuals...I hesitate to give The Giver as an example, because 1) drug-induced and 2) it's really really not good representation on the matter, being a dystopia and all.


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I think asexual settings are extremely easy to portray and actually more common than you think: most stories aimed at minors tend to err on the side of asexuality (or nonsexual romances). The main problem is that there is an illogical habit in media to equate "for grownups" with "must contain sex, violence and/or 'edginess'". It's rather easy to incorporate asexuality in settings, especially the magical fantasy settings we all know and love. You can have asexuality be the default sexual orientation, and have people reproduce via rituals. You don't even need female pregnancy either, as I'm sure we can all imagine a druidic ritual that grows a baby inside an oak tree, or an elemental ritual that allows someone to birth another being from a sufficiently large concentration of a given element.


Icyshadow wrote:
Shadow Knight 12 wrote:

Ah, thanks for the explanations, everyone.

I don't think I'll be joining the fray on that one. I'm pretty sure that if I were to talk about my settings (which are basically "everyone is LGBT+ in one way or another"), I'd get ridiculed or called a SJW. I think "queering" traditional narratives, setting types and archetypes is really important, but it seems like that's not a position likely to be understood.

Try selling a setting full of asexuals. That's even less likely to fly.

Why? Because some circles would either say they don't exist, or that they aren't part of LGBT.

Pretty easy for a mum running the game for young teenage kids. Not something kids want their mum to bring up :)


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Freehold DM wrote:
I thought you were just a quintesson, spelled differently, or possibly female. It's why I tried to avoid being found innocent of any crimes in your presence.

I would be honoured to include "female" among the identities people might recognize in me. I'm not being facetious - I know it's a contentious point, even as someone who finds labels like "MTF" and "transsexual" useful, personally, and it all feeds into the context of where I am and where I'm coming from.

But Quintesson? Wow, that takes me back. No thanks, way too paranoid for me, among other things. :)

I never actually saw the movie, but the comics were one of the limited successes my father enjoyed in trying to get me interested in comics in general when I was a kid. Figures, huh? I had most of the Combaticon figures, and they were some of my favourite toys, but never did get my hands on the central figure to be able to assemble the combined form, Bruticus. Hmm. Is there anything I can say about Transformers that isn't embarrassingly symbolic?

So, no Quintessons. Amazons, however, by all means. Just keep away from our queen's girdle and we won't have to worry about sending warriors over the river. No trials necessary. ;)

Oh, and welcome, Mandy and Aniuś, and any other new folks or people I haven't seen around in a while!


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Waiting on a line that goes out the door at midnight to get me some big gay ice cream!

It's time for the salty pimp.

Silver Crusade Contributor

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Freehold DM wrote:

Waiting on a line that goes out the door at midnight to get me some big gay ice cream!

It's time for the salty pimp.

I don't know what's going on here, but it sounds... exciting. ^_^


Mandy H. wrote:
Being 'different from standard' seems sufficient reason to include asexuality/aromanticism in the category to me. .

I dunno. That seems like a nascar fan and a Cricket aficionado getting together to discuss how much they don't like baseball.


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And I wake up to find some bigot got my thread locked while I was asleep. Got to read the posts before the delete comes in, and they didn't even make sense.


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Rosita the Riveter wrote:
And I wake up to find some bigot got my thread locked while I was asleep. Got to read the posts before the delete comes in, and they didn't even make sense.

It was just a particularly unpleasant and incoherent variation on the usual "We don't deal with homosexuality because sex doesn't belong in the game."

Oddly, the thread was locked without comment and without deleting the offending posts. Probably because they're busy with GenCon, but still odd.

Project Manager

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It's the weekend. :-/

I think the mod/web team wanted to stop it from further implosions, but I don't know that they had time to immediately sort through everything and figure out what to delete.


Jessica Price wrote:

It's the weekend. :-/

I think the mod/web team wanted to stop it from further implosions, but I don't know that they had time to immediately sort through everything and figure out what to delete.

Does that mean that the thread will be re-opened after the weekend? I was really enjoying Kelsey's thread.

Project Manager

No idea.


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Again odd. Chris's comment on it mentions removing posts and says "let's steer this thread away from a discussion of "triggers" and debating their validity", which sounds like it should be open, but it's still locked.


10 people marked this as a favorite.

I actually decided to just hide the thread to avoid myself being tempted to read the ugly derails in it. :/

EDIT: On a side note I hate people who say that "homosexuality and transgenderism are too mature subjects for XYZ" so much.

On a writing forum I was posting on months ago, I had posted a thread asking about best practices in writing a Young Adult novel. I mentioned in passing that my protagonist was a trans girl in high school, and then got lectured at by this nasty old harpy that transgender has 'no place' in stories for young people because it was 'too adult' of a topic for children and that it was messed up to indoctrinate kids into transgenderism.

So I explained that I had signs of being trans ever since I was a kid, but knew nothing about transgender, had never encountered relatable trans kids in my fiction, let alone nonbinary protagonists and that I been exposed to fiction about trans kids for trans kids I might have figured it out a lot earlier than I did. I mentioned that as a kid I liked dressing ambiguously to confuse people, and somewhat identified with people calling me a 'hermaphrodite'. I explained all of this patiently in the hopes that she would understand why it was important and sympathize.

Instead she was like, 'you are not a hermaphrodite'. and sent me some bogus source that "proved" that transgender is some made-up modern thing and that I had been played for a fool. Never mind that I don't even identify with that word anymore and haven't for years, it was just a story from when I was a kid. I had literally nothing else.

I don't remember much else that's specific, but the conversation went in a nasty direction. I recall telling her that I found her threatening and to get out of my thread and stop commenting on transgender issues. I do not block people often, but after a warning, I had to block her.

Later I found out that she was one of the most hated people on the forum for getting into nasty tirades whenever anything LGBT was brought up, and I got lectured at by her buddy, who was a mod, for "attacking her", even though in reality she came into my thread and derailed my thread to attack me for being trans and made passive aggressive threads about me, when I really just wanted to defuse the situation or close the book on it because it was anxiety inducing as hell. People like that shouldn't be mods.

I don't know why I'm telling this story. I guess I just had to rant.

Silver Crusade Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
Again odd. Chris's comment on it mentions removing posts and says "let's steer this thread away from a discussion of "triggers" and debating their validity", which sounds like it should be open, but it's still locked.

My guess is temporary lock. Probably for the best with a skeleton crew at Paizo.

Grand Lodge

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
...shared a heartfelt story from regarding past struggles.... "I don't know why I'm telling this story...."

Thank you for telling that story. The thing is, there are a lot of us out here that can be very naive. I like to think it's in part because we basically have good thoughts for people and have a hard time imagining that sort of the bigotry and hatred, let alone being the target of it. When you share your story, you help those of us that don't have a clue. It's not your job, or your responsibility, but you do it anyway, and I at least, thank you for it.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
verdigris wrote:
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:
...shared a heartfelt story from regarding past struggles.... "I don't know why I'm telling this story...."
Thank you for telling that story. The thing is, there are a lot of us out here that can be very naive. I like to think it's in part because we basically have good thoughts for people and have a hard time imagining that sort of the bigotry and hatred, let alone being the target of it. When you share your story, you help those of us that don't have a clue. It's not your job, or your responsibility, but you do it anyway, and I at least, thank you for it.

I'm glad it helped you c:

I wish I could say I believe the majority of people are basically good and strive to be good people, but unfortunately I have found in practice that there are a lot of truly nasty people out there who don't care about other people's feelings and will never change.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Aniuś the Talewise wrote:

I actually decided to just hide the thread to avoid myself being tempted to read the ugly derails in it. :/

EDIT: On a side note I hate people who say that "homosexuality and transgenderism are too mature subjects for XYZ" so much.

On a writing forum I was posting on months ago, I had posted a thread asking about best practices in writing a Young Adult novel. I mentioned in passing that my protagonist was a trans girl in high school, and then got lectured at by this nasty old harpy that transgender has 'no place' in stories for young people because it was 'too adult' of a topic for children and that it was messed up to indoctrinate kids into transgenderism.

So I explained that I had signs of being trans ever since I was a kid, but knew nothing about transgender, had never encountered relatable trans kids in my fiction, let alone nonbinary protagonists and that I been exposed to fiction about trans kids for trans kids I might have figured it out a lot earlier than I did. I mentioned that as a kid I liked dressing ambiguously to confuse people, and somewhat identified with people calling me a 'hermaphrodite'. I explained all of this patiently in the hopes that she would understand why it was important and sympathize.

Instead she was like, 'you are not a hermaphrodite'. and sent me some bogus source that "proved" that transgender is some made-up modern thing and that I had been played for a fool. Never mind that I don't even identify with that word anymore and haven't for years, it was just a story from when I was a kid. I had literally nothing else.

I don't remember much else that's specific, but the conversation went in a nasty direction. I recall telling her that I found her threatening and to get out of my thread and stop commenting on transgender issues. I do not block people often, but after a warning, I had to block her.

Later I found out that she was one of the most hated people on the forum for getting into nasty tirades whenever anything LGBT was brought up, and I got lectured at by...

thank you for sharing that interesting story. Some people shouldn't be mods. I am not kissing up when I say that one of the main reasons I come here is because the mods are fair without being robotic upholders of the community guidelines.

I do think some in the thread were being silencing when they said that sex has no place in their game because they play with (insert person/group here!),but others were not. As we speak I am preparing to game with my niece and horde of nephews, and sex of any sort is going to play no part because the oldest just turned 13 and the youngest just turned 9. At least, not from my mouth as my niece (the older 9 year old) is playing a barbarian that "sometimes has boobs, sometimes doesn't, and he has a lot of muscles. And 2 kids." My nephews are more confused at this and ask the occasional awkward question, to which my niece responds with a strange comment, sometimes random sound effects, and raucous laughter. She the proceeds to have the barbarian kill something, which always meets with approval. She is the most bloodthirsty player I have seen I years, and I and her aunt heartily approve.


6 people marked this as a favorite.
Kalindlara wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Again odd. Chris's comment on it mentions removing posts and says "let's steer this thread away from a discussion of "triggers" and debating their validity", which sounds like it should be open, but it's still locked.
My guess is temporary lock. Probably for the best with a skeleton crew at Paizo.

great. Now I can't help but picture skeletons wearing khakis and t shirts that say "TEMP", answering the phones at paizo.

Silver Crusade Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Again odd. Chris's comment on it mentions removing posts and says "let's steer this thread away from a discussion of "triggers" and debating their validity", which sounds like it should be open, but it's still locked.
My guess is temporary lock. Probably for the best with a skeleton crew at Paizo.
great. Now I can't help but picture skeletons wearing khakis and t shirts that say "TEMP", answering the phones at paizo.

There's an app for that.

Customer Service Representative

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Again odd. Chris's comment on it mentions removing posts and says "let's steer this thread away from a discussion of "triggers" and debating their validity", which sounds like it should be open, but it's still locked.
My guess is temporary lock. Probably for the best with a skeleton crew at Paizo.
great. Now I can't help but picture skeletons wearing khakis and t shirts that say "TEMP", answering the phones at paizo.

Actually, I'm wearing shorts.

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