paizo.com Recent Posts in Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershippaizo.com Recent Posts in Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadership2012-04-11T22:19:10Z2012-04-11T22:19:10ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipbeej67https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#872012-04-16T20:26:47Z2012-04-16T20:26:47Z<p>Our house rule is cohorts don't show up unless there's three or less players at the gaming session, and followers do things like run your boat/inn/whatever.</p>Our house rule is cohorts don't show up unless there's three or less players at the gaming session, and followers do things like run your boat/inn/whatever.beej672012-04-16T20:26:47ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipDrejk (alias of Wojciech Gruchala)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#862012-04-16T17:33:37Z2012-04-16T17:33:37Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">shallowsoul wrote:</div><blockquote> I thought cohorts only got half the XP. </blockquote><div class="messageboard-quotee">Quote:</div><blockquote><p>A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.</p>
<p>If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next level.</blockquote><p>Half XP was given to cohorts long ago (I don't remember if it was 3.5, 3.0 or earlier).shallowsoul wrote:I thought cohorts only got half the XP.
Quote:A cohort does not count as a party member when determining the party's XP. Instead, divide the cohort's level by your level. Multiply this result by the total XP awarded to you, then add that number of experience points to the cohort's total.
If a cohort gains enough XP to bring it to a level one lower than your level, the cohort does not gain the new level—its new XP total is 1 less than the amount needed to attain the next...Drejk (alias of Wojciech Gruchala)2012-04-16T17:33:37ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipshallowsoulhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#852012-04-16T16:12:45Z2012-04-16T16:12:45Z<p>I thought cohorts only got half the XP.</p>I thought cohorts only got half the XP.shallowsoul2012-04-16T16:12:45ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipMirandahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#842012-04-16T16:02:48Z2012-04-16T16:02:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">master arminas wrote:</div><blockquote><p> While I do not out right ban it from my games, there are a number of things that make my players aware of before they take it. Followers are only gained if the party has a permanent base of operations: and they don't leave. They take care of the castle, or the fort, or the tower; they grow food, tend the fields, watch over the herds, maybe work a small mine. They do this <i>for</i> the PC they follow, and they <i>will</i> defend his keep to the best of their extent. They do <i>not</i> go dungeon delving or take the offensive. Ever.</p>
<p>Cohorts must be found and recruited; on occassion one may seek out the party to inquire about employment. I design the cohorts; I build them. They have NPC gear appropriate for their level (not the PCs, the cohort's level). Cohorts do not get a share of treasure, and receive XP equal to their PC. If the PC wants the cohort to have better gear, he has to either find it or buy it and then <i>give</i> it to them.</p>
<p>Master Arminas </blockquote><p><b>This</b>
<p>The group I DM has one cohort, they recruited from the local temple, that takes the role of the healing cleric and emergency figher. It allows the players to run the characers they want whilst still having a viable party (currently Sorceror, Witch, Fighter, Ninja). Treasure and XP handled as quoted.</p>master arminas wrote:While I do not out right ban it from my games, there are a number of things that make my players aware of before they take it. Followers are only gained if the party has a permanent base of operations: and they don't leave. They take care of the castle, or the fort, or the tower; they grow food, tend the fields, watch over the herds, maybe work a small mine. They do this for the PC they follow, and they will defend his keep to the best of their extent. They do not go...Miranda2012-04-16T16:02:48ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipxorialhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#832012-04-16T15:42:41Z2012-04-16T15:42:41Z<p>I think the key is that any cohort should be setup so that while the PCs control the character in play, GM needs to decide how it levels (if at all) and have creative control. The cohort is more like a shared character between the GM & PC. The cohort may still have motivations that the PC is unaware of. The GM is free to take control of the cohort when he needs to introduce a plot point.</p>I think the key is that any cohort should be setup so that while the PCs control the character in play, GM needs to decide how it levels (if at all) and have creative control. The cohort is more like a shared character between the GM & PC. The cohort may still have motivations that the PC is unaware of. The GM is free to take control of the cohort when he needs to introduce a plot point.xorial2012-04-16T15:42:41ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipshallowsoulhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#822012-04-16T13:50:26Z2012-04-16T13:50:26Z<p>I create the cohorts, not my Players.</p>I create the cohorts, not my Players.shallowsoul2012-04-16T13:50:26ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipshallowsoulhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#812012-04-16T13:18:40Z2012-04-16T13:18:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Charlie Bell wrote:</div><blockquote> @Jorda75: It's also problematic in very large parties, regardless of GM skill. You might dial it back a little. I've been GMing for 20 years now and I don't allow it in some games. </blockquote><p>A six man party can suddenly turn into a twelve man one. The encounter building guide doesn't cover parties that high in number.Charlie Bell wrote:@Jorda75: It's also problematic in very large parties, regardless of GM skill. You might dial it back a little. I've been GMing for 20 years now and I don't allow it in some games.
A six man party can suddenly turn into a twelve man one. The encounter building guide doesn't cover parties that high in number.shallowsoul2012-04-16T13:18:40ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershiplittlehewyhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#802012-04-16T12:41:42Z2012-04-16T12:41:42Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Pinky's Brain wrote:</div><blockquote> It has no business being a feat, either make it a free bonus for everyone in the party or ditch it. </blockquote><p>Why so? Surely some characters are interested in having groups of followers, while others are completely disinterested? And wouldn't the effort that goes into being a leader and working towards having followers require the kind of expenditure that feats can represent? I've seen it work well 3 or 4 times as a GM, although most players I've had weren't really interested in it. The only time it didn't work was the first time I had a player take it, and that was pretty much my fault.Pinky's Brain wrote:It has no business being a feat, either make it a free bonus for everyone in the party or ditch it.
Why so? Surely some characters are interested in having groups of followers, while others are completely disinterested? And wouldn't the effort that goes into being a leader and working towards having followers require the kind of expenditure that feats can represent? I've seen it work well 3 or 4 times as a GM, although most players I've had weren't really interested in...littlehewy2012-04-16T12:41:42ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipxorialhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#792012-04-16T00:11:17Z2012-04-16T00:11:17Z<p>And Owen didn't even pitch his own product that has alt Leadership Feats, so I will do it for him. :P</p>
<p><a href="http://paizo.com/products/btpy8pkq?Bullet-Points-2-Options-for-the-Leadership-Feat" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><b>Bullet Points: 2 Options for the Leadership Feat</b></a></p>And Owen didn't even pitch his own product that has alt Leadership Feats, so I will do it for him. :P
Bullet Points: 2 Options for the Leadership Featxorial2012-04-16T00:11:17ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipLazarXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#782012-04-15T23:09:33Z2012-04-15T22:57:12Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">ArmosD49 wrote:</div><blockquote><p> What compounds the issue in my game is that the inexperienced player is also a summoner.
</p>
</blockquote><p>That's one of the classes I ban for newbie players, period.ArmosD49 wrote:What compounds the issue in my game is that the inexperienced player is also a summoner.
That's one of the classes I ban for newbie players, period.LazarX2012-04-15T22:57:12ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipCaiushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#772012-04-15T22:37:16Z2012-04-15T22:37:16Z<p>I've actually been encouraged by other players and my gms to take leadership in our last 3 games, not for the power but simply due to concept. In our current kingmaker campaign everyone just got it for free with the caveat that the dm can decide what cohorts are available when as each has tasks within our organizations. We also run with an optional rule that if you actively rp and engage npcs to ally with you you can run the character as only 1 level lower.</p>
<p>I know a lot of people here would cringe at how we normally play our games (I've mentioned our standard stats once and got a lot of side-eyes) but what really helps is that it's an experienced group and everyone is willing to help with concept but also stop outright cheese.</p>
<p>I can see why it's a very controversial feat, but I think as long as the in game reason is there and there's open communication it shouldn't be as bad as it seems made out to be.</p>I've actually been encouraged by other players and my gms to take leadership in our last 3 games, not for the power but simply due to concept. In our current kingmaker campaign everyone just got it for free with the caveat that the dm can decide what cohorts are available when as each has tasks within our organizations. We also run with an optional rule that if you actively rp and engage npcs to ally with you you can run the character as only 1 level lower.
I know a lot of people here would...Caius2012-04-15T22:37:16ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipOwen K. C. Stephenshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#762012-04-15T21:50:49Z2012-04-15T21:50:49Z<p>I have never banned Leadership. Currently at least one player in every Pathfinder game I run has taken it, and each one uses it differently.</p>
<p>No GM I have played under bans Leadership. Many insist on talking to the player before approving it, but that's true of a lot of character decisions. Those conversations tend to be information, rather than authoritative (designed to see where GM and player are, rather than a trial to ask permission).</p>
<p>I, and every GM I play with, design and run the cohort and any followers, as they are NPCs. The same is true of all +1 elements (mounts, dragon steeds, animal companions, familiars) except for eidolons (which players are allowed to design, though the GM still runs them). Such designs are always made with a close eye on what choices the PC makes (a druid can generally pick what animal companion they want, and the GM watches how the player wants to use it, but as it gains hit dice its feats, ability scores, and skill points are assigned by the GM. same with Cohorts).</p>
<p>This has never slowed a game or been a problem with other players that I recall.</p>
<p>I do understand why such things might cause problems in other games (I even designed an alternative set of Leadership feats for that reason), but they match the play style of my groups as-is.</p>I have never banned Leadership. Currently at least one player in every Pathfinder game I run has taken it, and each one uses it differently.
No GM I have played under bans Leadership. Many insist on talking to the player before approving it, but that's true of a lot of character decisions. Those conversations tend to be information, rather than authoritative (designed to see where GM and player are, rather than a trial to ask permission).
I, and every GM I play with, design and run the...Owen K. C. Stephens2012-04-15T21:50:49ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipTacticslionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#752012-04-15T17:49:42Z2012-04-15T17:49:42Z<p>I've never banned Leadership, and have had people take it sporadically (sometimes everyone takes it, sometimes no on takes it, sometimes some people take it but not others). I often run the cohorts and followers, but it's not because I want to... rather, usually I'm prefer for the players do so (as long as they don't expect their followers to walk into traps "just because"). When the player gets busy and forgets about their followers they are supposed to run, however, that's when I generally step in and start running them, though when I do end up running them, I work with my players to make sure things are going mostly as they like, though the followers and cohorts often fade into the background to make things work more smoothly for me (as I've got enough to run).</p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Outside of direct mechanics (which is cool too), Leadership often makes a great RP reward. Occasionally, I'll give it out as a "bonus feat" for particular RP things, or allow its effects without the player otherwise using up a feat to gain it. In such cases, I get the player to work for it, and encourage heavy RP'ing, to truly invest them into the story. </p>
<p>[Spoiler omitted]</p>
<p>Personally, I've <i>never</i> had a problem with leadership, and have always found it easy to integrate into a game in many different ways - the two above examples are just the first two that come to mind. As a player I love RP'ing the feat.</p>
<p>In Kingmaker, for example, I've made a tight-nit community of people that my character trusts and who trust him, as they learn magic from him (and, against conventional wisdom, whom he doesn't require to be personal item-bots!). It's interesting, because I treat them so well, that it's become kind of a competition: see who can out-do who to be a better friend (me or my followers) - so far I'm winning!</p>
<p>In any event, it's a great feat, lots of fun, and has tremendous potential.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I know that there are some people that don't like it. Thus the existence of rule 0. It make sense and I like that about our shared hobby. I'm personally a really big fan of it, though. (And there is literally nothing wrong with item-bots or heal-bots: those are great, and especially the latter is probably the <i>best</i> use of the feat in a "standard" game).</p>I've never banned Leadership, and have had people take it sporadically (sometimes everyone takes it, sometimes no on takes it, sometimes some people take it but not others). I often run the cohorts and followers, but it's not because I want to... rather, usually I'm prefer for the players do so (as long as they don't expect their followers to walk into traps "just because"). When the player gets busy and forgets about their followers they are supposed to run, however, that's when I generally...Tacticslion2012-04-15T17:49:42ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipRuggshttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#742012-04-14T21:55:40Z2012-04-14T21:55:40Z<p>I've found that Leadership:
<br />
- Works best when not treated as a feat, but as a RP reward.
<br />
- Does not work when you have the potential for DM change-off (A cohort is one more thing for a DM to keep track of).</p>
<p>In my experience:
<br />
- I've found that letting the player design the cohort tends to, but not always, leads to abuse.
<br />
- I've found that the most common cohort request is for a caster of some type to act as the person's personal buff/etc. bot.</p>
<p>In short, Leadership is a terrible feat.</p>
<p>It is great as an RP reward where there is a consistent DM and group of friends.</p>I've found that Leadership:
- Works best when not treated as a feat, but as a RP reward.
- Does not work when you have the potential for DM change-off (A cohort is one more thing for a DM to keep track of).
In my experience:
- I've found that letting the player design the cohort tends to, but not always, leads to abuse.
- I've found that the most common cohort request is for a caster of some type to act as the person's personal buff/etc. bot.
In short, Leadership is a terrible feat.
It is...Ruggs2012-04-14T21:55:40ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipTheconiel (alias of Andrew Besso)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#732012-04-14T20:37:50Z2012-04-14T20:37:50Z<p>Our GM put it thus:
<br />
"You <b><i>are</i></b> taking Leadership, <b><i>aren't you</i></b>? I think it gives him the freedom to make the opponents more powerful. It is also likely that he designed the opponents around the assumption that there would be more characters than players.
<br />
The player can design the cohort (the character can recruit a specific person) with a DC 15 Diplomacy check (no assistance, no taking 10 or 20). Failure means the GM designs the cohort (somebody else showed up who was willing to take the gig).</p>Our GM put it thus:
"You are taking Leadership, aren't you? I think it gives him the freedom to make the opponents more powerful. It is also likely that he designed the opponents around the assumption that there would be more characters than players.
The player can design the cohort (the character can recruit a specific person) with a DC 15 Diplomacy check (no assistance, no taking 10 or 20). Failure means the GM designs the cohort (somebody else showed up who was willing to take the gig).Theconiel (alias of Andrew Besso)2012-04-14T20:37:50ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipredcelt32https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#722012-04-14T18:23:34Z2012-04-14T18:23:34Z<p>I almost always allow this feat for out of party use of a cohort, but not often in party, since we usually have a huge group (8-10 players). If the wizard wants a cohort to run his arcane academy while he adventures, go for it. If the fighter wants a cleric cohort to make potions and restore lost levels, etc post adventure, fantastic. That being said, I don't particularly have an issue with a cohort in party, as long as the group size wasnt too large.</p>
<p>The main issue that I think comes when this feat gets discussed on the boards is whether or not the cohort is basically an animal companion of the PC, meaning they get to design them from the ground up and run them completely, or whether the GM gets to present various NPCs for selection and then plays the NPC's personality. It seems there is a contingent that believe the player should have total control and a contingent that believe the GM should handle most of it, other than in combat activities.</p>
<p>I think this has a lot to do with why it isnt very popular in a lot of groups. If the GM and players cant reconcile their differing viewpoints on this, the players may feel like they are wasting a feat, and the GM may feel the feat is too powerful if the player basically gets a second character of his design and control.</p>I almost always allow this feat for out of party use of a cohort, but not often in party, since we usually have a huge group (8-10 players). If the wizard wants a cohort to run his arcane academy while he adventures, go for it. If the fighter wants a cleric cohort to make potions and restore lost levels, etc post adventure, fantastic. That being said, I don't particularly have an issue with a cohort in party, as long as the group size wasnt too large.
The main issue that I think comes when...redcelt322012-04-14T18:23:34ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipRemco Sommelinghttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#712012-04-14T17:47:11Z2012-04-14T17:47:11Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Jorda75 wrote:</div><blockquote> Leadership is only broken if your GM isn't good enough to handle it, I can understand it being "banned" for inexperienced GMs but anyone worth their salt at it will allow it. </blockquote><p>In the sense that it is more powerful than other feats it is certainly 'broken', personally I do not allow it:
<p>- preference of style, one pc not multiples
<br />
- not bogging down the game (combat) unnecesarily
<br />
- it is more powerful than other feats by far
<br />
- I prefer to treat npcs as npcs without ownership stamp, they are mine and they might aid or betray the party at my whim</p>
<p>I am not an inexperienced GM though and I think I am worth my salt</p>Jorda75 wrote:Leadership is only broken if your GM isn't good enough to handle it, I can understand it being "banned" for inexperienced GMs but anyone worth their salt at it will allow it.
In the sense that it is more powerful than other feats it is certainly 'broken', personally I do not allow it: - preference of style, one pc not multiples
- not bogging down the game (combat) unnecesarily
- it is more powerful than other feats by far
- I prefer to treat npcs as npcs without ownership...Remco Sommeling2012-04-14T17:47:11ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipR_Chancehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#702012-04-14T07:06:30Z2012-04-14T07:06:30Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">8 Red Wizards wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I personally do not ban leadership, because it expands on gaming options of Mass combat (Invading another country), building a church or guild, constructing your own city). Although I would like to hear from other people to see if I am alone.
<br />
</blockquote><p>All the feat does is to replicate what was a class feature of a number of classes back in the day (in OE, 1E etc.). I'm surprised that it would be banned, but then I'm sure it gets abused. I require the PC to be ready for it. The cohorts are established NPCs who need to be convinced to get on board. The followers can only be recruited if the PCs situation is appropriate (i.e. establishing a stronghold / temple / guild etc.). It used to come with the PCs hitting certain levels (a Fighter hitting 9th level "Lord" for example). Personally I think 7th level is a bit soon as a prerequisite but it usually involves just the cohort at that point in my game. Although I did have one enterprising and charismatic Fighter start his own mercenary company once...8 Red Wizards wrote:I personally do not ban leadership, because it expands on gaming options of Mass combat (Invading another country), building a church or guild, constructing your own city). Although I would like to hear from other people to see if I am alone.
All the feat does is to replicate what was a class feature of a number of classes back in the day (in OE, 1E etc.). I'm surprised that it would be banned, but then I'm sure it gets abused. I require the PC to be ready for it. The...R_Chance2012-04-14T07:06:30ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipStockvillainhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#692012-04-13T21:27:22Z2012-04-13T21:27:22Z<p>I don't ever ban the feat, but I do talk to my players beforehand and discuss how they intend to make use of it. I also do my level best to introduce NPCs that appeal to them as potential cohorts / followers over the course of the campaign. Nobody's actually had to stat up their own cohort, so far. They usually latch on to an NPC that they like and Bob's your uncle . . .</p>
<p>Followers are much more dynamic and vague; unless you have a solid reason for a few dozen people [or more, for the really charismatic types] to tag along on your adventures, they're usually stationary. Folks with real lives and such that you can generally rely on in a pinch. If you have a stronghold, chances are most of the people associated with it will be followers. They're often low-level contacts withing organizations and communities that the PC frequents. Anytime the PC is trying to, say, gather some intel, his followers pitch in with their Aid Another actions and provide a significant bonus.</p>
<p>Of course, the only guys that I've run games for that actually took the feat were mature, experienced players that wanted to use it an an RP tool to advance the metaplot of the game. And make their own stories that much more memorable. Your individual experience may vary.</p>I don't ever ban the feat, but I do talk to my players beforehand and discuss how they intend to make use of it. I also do my level best to introduce NPCs that appeal to them as potential cohorts / followers over the course of the campaign. Nobody's actually had to stat up their own cohort, so far. They usually latch on to an NPC that they like and Bob's your uncle . . .
Followers are much more dynamic and vague; unless you have a solid reason for a few dozen people [or more, for the really...Stockvillain2012-04-13T21:27:22ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipDeyvantiushttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#682012-04-13T21:06:07Z2012-04-13T21:06:07Z<p>I've played in one campaign where someone took the leadership feat. It was the worst idea ever. I'd never play in a game where someone got to play 2 characters.</p>I've played in one campaign where someone took the leadership feat. It was the worst idea ever. I'd never play in a game where someone got to play 2 characters.Deyvantius2012-04-13T21:06:07ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipDavid knott 242https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#672012-04-13T20:57:31Z2012-04-13T20:57:31Z<p>I took the Leadership feat in order to provide a cohort for missing party roles and for the followers to be a squad of low level "red shirts". </p>
<p>The cohort is an oracle of life whose primary role is to fill in for the ever increasingly absent party cleric. I try to keep her out of the fights as much as possible, but I will have her bless the party before each battle and heal them afterwards. Also, since the party does not (usually) have a rogue, I gave her the Seeker archetype so that we would have somebody who can disable magical traps. Since the rogue in question is an Alchemist X/Rogue 2, she might still be called upon to handle the magical traps. She also has one level of the Harrower prestige class, so the party will benefit from that if both of the other players she can replace happen to show up for the game. When she is not otherwise needed, her main role would be to guide low level NPCs out of danger.</p>
<p>For the followers, I set things up so that their second in command is my player character's Viking-like uncle. They would be used to handle low level threats that are far beneath the party's abilities. I made him second in command because of the hit my leadership score will take the first time that group takes casualties — at that point, the original leader will desert with many of his followers, and the Viking-like uncle will take over those who remain. Most such fights will take place "off stage", of course.</p>I took the Leadership feat in order to provide a cohort for missing party roles and for the followers to be a squad of low level "red shirts".
The cohort is an oracle of life whose primary role is to fill in for the ever increasingly absent party cleric. I try to keep her out of the fights as much as possible, but I will have her bless the party before each battle and heal them afterwards. Also, since the party does not (usually) have a rogue, I gave her the Seeker archetype so that we would...David knott 2422012-04-13T20:57:31ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershippsionichamsterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#662012-04-13T19:55:11Z2012-04-13T19:55:11Z<p>With less than 6 players, I generally allow Leadership with the following caveats:</p>
<p>1: Followers do not get involved in combat. They crew your ship, cook your meals, clean you keep, or possibly grow crops. They are YOUR responsibility as a player, but MY targets & plot-hooks as a GM. They are also NPC classed, unless special considerations arise (you run a thieve's guild, or own a mage's college, or etc.)</p>
<p>2: Cohorts may or may not be involved in combat, but expect them to be mercilessly targeted if they fall into the classic "shoot first" categories of A: Healer, B: Buffer (like Bards), C: Spellcaster, D: Super-Turret-Archer-Guy. </p>
<p>3: Do not slow down the game. If you take a hundred years to handle a single melee PC, do not expect to then take a Summoner Cohort. Just no.</p>
<p>4: You do the paperwork. I reserve the right to audit said paperwork at any time, and I expect you to do the math properly, but I will not be generating large numbers of NPCs for you to run, nor will I create your Cohort (unless you're grabbing a Pre-Made NPC from the campaign, in which case, Hooray!)</p>With less than 6 players, I generally allow Leadership with the following caveats:
1: Followers do not get involved in combat. They crew your ship, cook your meals, clean you keep, or possibly grow crops. They are YOUR responsibility as a player, but MY targets & plot-hooks as a GM. They are also NPC classed, unless special considerations arise (you run a thieve's guild, or own a mage's college, or etc.)
2: Cohorts may or may not be involved in combat, but expect them to be mercilessly...psionichamster2012-04-13T19:55:11ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipChobemasterhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#652012-04-13T19:44:32Z2012-04-13T19:44:32Z<p>I think it's great, and I think adding it as a feat was a GREAT design move vs. AD&D where is was an automatic class feature if you built a castle. If you want to enjoy that class feature, great, take the feat. If you don't, or if your particular campaign doesn't lend itself, take something else and you're not getting hosed.</p>
<p>You can still hire people as needed as the GM allows, with or without Leadership existing in the game or with or without having taken it.</p>
<p>To distinguish, IMO a true cohort should be valuable enough to the PC to justify not taking some other feat, I think this is often best accomplished by letting the player have input in the NPC's build and letting him run the cohort in combat.</p>I think it's great, and I think adding it as a feat was a GREAT design move vs. AD&D where is was an automatic class feature if you built a castle. If you want to enjoy that class feature, great, take the feat. If you don't, or if your particular campaign doesn't lend itself, take something else and you're not getting hosed.
You can still hire people as needed as the GM allows, with or without Leadership existing in the game or with or without having taken it.
To distinguish, IMO a true...Chobemaster2012-04-13T19:44:32ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban Leadershipnotabothttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#642012-04-13T19:23:18Z2012-04-13T19:23:18Z<p>I usually don't allow it since my party is in the 7-9 player range, and last time somebody took it they had tried to bring their entire mass of followers with them on adventure. Talk about a slow combat that ended in dozens of dead followers. Apparently lvl 1 guys get glassed when ambushed by AoE spells.</p>
<p>While running legacy of fire I've allowed it, but for cohorts only, and those cohorts are meant to be backup characters if their main dies where we can't get back right away for a raise.</p>
<p>Next campaign I'm allowing it since its going to be a looser campaign with some minor kingdom building stuff involved. Since the characters are going to be landed lords, leadership makes sense. One of the characters is taking it so they can have a seneschal or steward, and men at arms to guard and take care of his property when he is on campaign.</p>I usually don't allow it since my party is in the 7-9 player range, and last time somebody took it they had tried to bring their entire mass of followers with them on adventure. Talk about a slow combat that ended in dozens of dead followers. Apparently lvl 1 guys get glassed when ambushed by AoE spells.
While running legacy of fire I've allowed it, but for cohorts only, and those cohorts are meant to be backup characters if their main dies where we can't get back right away for a raise.
...notabot2012-04-13T19:23:18ZRe: Forums: Homebrew and House Rules: Is there anyone who does not Ban LeadershipVendlehttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nxge&page=2?Is-there-anyone-who-does-not-Ban-Leadership#632012-04-13T19:12:25Z2012-04-13T19:12:25Z<p>I've never banned Leadership, but none of my players have taken it, either. There isn't a shortage for a cohort to fill up because there's already 7-8 PCs at the table, and I think my players just don't want the bookkeeping.</p>
<p>This thread inspires me to give Leadership another chance, though. Especially if I use Kingmaker.</p>I've never banned Leadership, but none of my players have taken it, either. There isn't a shortage for a cohort to fill up because there's already 7-8 PCs at the table, and I think my players just don't want the bookkeeping.
This thread inspires me to give Leadership another chance, though. Especially if I use Kingmaker.Vendle2012-04-13T19:12:25Z