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Goblinworks Blog: Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick Makers


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Paizo Employee Digital Products Assistant

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Added discussion thread for Goblinworks Blog: Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick Makers.

Goblin Squad Member

Thanks! Info on harvesting, processing(!) and crafting was very much desired. At first glance the game is now even more appealing.

(well, at first glance what stood out was relocating cats, scuba diving, and das Kapital undertones, but...)

"hijacking wagons can be as good as harvesting in the first place".
Really? If the harvester was carrying it all on his person it likely would be lost and not looted. This implies wagons can be looted, and again that bandits will want to attack wagons rather than travellers. I like!

Will we need to eat? The graphics can be misleading but suggest that food production will be important. I might like to lord over my serfs toiling in the fields, but will food really matter? Will food be needed for stuff like complex gathering operations and settlement maintenance, or only to provide minor adventuring buffs or non-magical healing?

EDIT: "most items will be player-crafted". So what about loot (and quest rewards)? Loot is classified as 'input' to be refined, but does that mean that humanoid npcs will only drop coins and broken/inferior items that are only good for scavenging or remelting?

Goblin Squad Member

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I have been waiting for details on crafting ever since I started reading the blogs. I wasn't able to finish reading this in one sitting. I had to pause every so often to run celebration laps around my desk!

The harvesting, refining, and crafting systems sound even more amazing than I had ever imagined. Thank you so much!

EDIT: I also realized: This may be the first MMO made where the NPC's have a prominent role, and not just as shopkeepers/repairers. Wait, so you actually have to keep your workers happy while they're harvesting/processing/running your buildings? I can't think of a game that's done that before... well, besides the city-building sims, and certainly not an MMO. Well done!

Silver Crusade Goblin Squad Member

I liked that NPC's will show up to help mine, that was a nice touch. It should make the world far more interesting to see. My only question is, you mention that crafted items will be of varying quality. In PnP Pathfinder, you've got a chainshirt, and then a masterwork chain shirt. There really is no varying quality there. A longsword is a longsword is a longsword, until you get it enchanted, its going to be doing 1d8 damage all day long. How will PFO handle item stats? I must assume that it won't be like PnP, but can you give us a rough idea of what the finished product will look like?

EDIT: Link fixed, carry on!

Goblin Squad Member

It all sounds fantastic and I'll have a hard time deciding what part of the process I'll focus on.

Could you elaborate some on the security issues that come along with crafting? I understand the need for guards and such, but are these exclusively PC guardians or are there NPC guards you can hire as well? Will every part of your operation be vulnerable to PC attack, or will there be certain safe areas or a cap on losses?

I ask since the penalty for death is losing what random bits you were carrying (not including gear.) What's the risk for gathering a bunch of friends and focusing just on raiding people's camps and caravans? Will attacking these camps be equivalent to attacks on your character in terms of bounty and NPC aggression?

Goblin Squad Member

Some questions that come to mind:

1.) When setting up a work camp to harvest resources, will commoners work the same in settled hexes as they do in unsettled hexes?

2.) Will research for crafters be an active pursuit (engaging in PvE to find recipes/schematics/etc.), a passive pursuit (queue up research in settlement, wait for completion), or some combination of both?

3.) How complex will the modularity of crafted items be? Is it only a matter of the quality of processed materials, or will we have control over specific components of the item? Example: When crafting a sword, having control over the type of blade, hilt, guard, etc in addition to the quality of materials used in construction

4.) Gathering resources and raw materials can only occur outside of settlements. Processing materials and crafting finished goods can only happen inside settlements. True or false?

5.) If processing and crafting can only occur at full-blown settlements, then outside of NPC controlled areas, are Player-Nations the only groups who are able to process/craft?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

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Delbin wrote:

Will every part of your operation be vulnerable to PC attack, or will there be certain safe areas or a cap on losses?

I ask since the penalty for death is losing what random bits you were carrying (not including gear.) What's the risk for gathering a bunch of friends and focusing just on raiding people's camps and caravans? Will attacking these camps be equivalent to attacks on your character in terms of bounty and NPC aggression?

The answers to most of your questions come down to this: the more risk you take, the more reward you'll potentially make. You may be able to extract some resources in safe locations where you're protected by, among other things, laws against murder... but they won't be especially valuable resources. If you want at the good stuff, you'll need to venture forth into scary, lawless places.

Goblin Squad Member

Vic Wertz wrote:
The answers to most of your questions come down to this: the more risk you take, the more reward you'll potentially make. You may be able to extract some resources in safe locations where you're protected by, among other things, laws against murder... but they won't be especially valuable resources. If you want at the good stuff, you'll need to venture forth into scary, lawless places.

That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

Goblin Squad Member

This makes me a happy gnome, thank you GW.

Goblin Squad Member

Wow, this design sounds amazing.

Question: You mentioned craftsmen needing to bring the product to market. In what sense do you mean "need?"

I hope it is because certain locations offer a benefit for certain activities.

Thanks.

Goblin Squad Member

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Elorebaen wrote:
Question: You mentioned craftsmen needing to bring the product to market. In what sense do you mean "need?"

I think the idea is that you could sell your items locally, but chances are you won't get a good price for them since they'll be made from local resources. You'll want to move your goods to the settlement that has the best prices.


Elorebaen wrote:
Question: You mentioned craftsmen needing to bring the product to market. In what sense do you mean "need?"

The blog also mentioned selling gear at the site of a recent battle, i.e. to relenish warriors' stores. I think by 'need to bring to market' they are simply re-iterating the obvious, that to sell something, you need a buyer. From the battle-field example, it sounds like transactions can be made between PCs/NPCs anywhere they want... If buyers come to you, great, otherwise you have to go to the buyers. They've previously said that there will be a high degree of market transarency re: information of prices, but you would still have to bring your product to that location in order to sell it... Or some other 3rd party would probably be happy to play middle-man trader, although if you have mega-tons to move (or you're located in a very dangerous area that most players, and certainly most TRADERS, don't travel thru), that may not be dependable.

Blog wrote:
Your camp will function even when you are not present, although it may be less efficient without your direct supervision. The number of camps you can manage simultaneously will be affected by your skills and merit badges.

So it sounds like the Harvesting 'skills' may be as much about Harvesting 'management' as swinging pick-axes, etc?

Quote:
Your camp will function even when you are not present, although it may be less efficient without your direct supervision. The number of camps you can manage simultaneously will be affected by your skills and merit badges.

Is the number of harvesting camps 'managed simultaneously' also affected by their distance from you? Or whether or not they are in the same Hex?

With the 'camps efficiency goes way down if not supervised' aspect, it sounds like Organization-owned Harvesting Camps will be heavily favored, especially if their members can be supervising it 24/7... Perhaps some of these merit badges will be focused on allowing individuals/small guilds who can't ensure 24/7 supervision a way to improve their 'non-supervised' efficiency... I suppose it depends on the 'permissions' of the organization re: jobs/transactions) to control who within their guild can step in to manage the organizations' Harvesting camps? Can other PCs (un-affiliated, or of 'enemy' guilds) come to an un-managed camp and 'take it over'? (taking control, not destroying it)?

I imagine an interesting way to mess up a Harvesting operation is to Cast some Confusion spell on the Common People, probably wouldn't overly affect your Criminal Status/Alignment, and if the Camp isn't being guarded by a PC who can remove that Effect, they are out of commision for some time.

Quote:

Over time we expect that processors will become deeply involved in settlement management and in construction to ensure that the facilities they need are available and configured to meet their specifications.

...The canny processor is always thinking about how to forge alliances to get supplies in and out of areas where they personally may be persona non grata—or where an inconvenient war or monstrous humanoid incursion is escalating!

I suppose that the in-town processing requirement is being used to promote that a certain class of players are tightly involved with the actual settlements (which they depend on for processing). And having an in-between step between Harvesting and Crafting seems catered towards promoting middle-men and more varied alliances, rather than simply monolithic groups who Harvest and Craft for themselves. Of course, groups CAN have 100% vertical integration, but if a middle-man does their job more efficiently, they would be paying for the luxury of doing so (by insisting on doing it 'in house').

Personally, I found the 'extra' intermediary step of Processing (before Craftin) overly complex, given I'm not the type of player interested in Harvesting/Crafting to begin with. This, and the last blog post, didn't really suggest an aspect of the game what would be appealing to me, and I suspect, alot of players. But if player economic organizations end up providing motivational resources to PCs, in lieu of NPCs granting quests, etc, that seems fine to me, probably more interesting than some half-ass backstory plot associated with an NPC.

Goblin Squad Member

+1, this sounds purely awesome. Removes the boredom of clicking a node 500 times, and even eliminates the need for a mini-game. Instead you get the excitement of fighting off PCs and NPCs from your harvesting opperation.

Also for those who are worried about the lack of risk for pirates, I think you are missing one factor, wasted time. Pirates may burn hours looking for a suitable operation or cart to raid, only to get killed in the process of trying to attack it. Harvesters may risk losing their work but they usually know what they are after. Where it is and have ease of getting to it, while the pirate, has no way to know for certain the strength of the target.

Also I do have one question for ryan while he's around, while not directly in the field of crafting, it still is in the field of the viability and consistancy of the crafting/harvesting field,

Is there any chance you can drop us a hint as to whether or not completed/equiped items will deteriorate, IE will equiped items ever need to be recrafted, or will repairs be just a time/money task and once the resources have been spent they won't need to be spent again. I won't be supprised if it's too early to answer that one, but I figured I'd give it a shot lol.

Keep up the good work GW, so far the game is sounding spectacular

Goblin Squad Member

Or the buyers in remote places could come to you if you advertise your wares on a website outside of the actual game world. Easier or less risky for them to travel with empty bags than for the crafter to transport a large amount of valuable merchandise over long distances through hostile territory.

Thank you for the great info. This is sounding much more like the type of social community-oriented world I was hoping it would be.

Goblin Squad Member

Sounds amazing!!!

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Misere wrote:
Easier or less risky for them to travel with empty bags than for the crafter to transport a large amount of valuable merchandise over long distances through hostile territory.

But *somebody* still needs to deal with that risk get the merch to the final destination.... and I'd fully expect that any such buyers would expect a significantly lower price in exchange for shifting that risk to themselves. If you want the best price, I think you'll need to take on the risk yourself.

Andoran Goblinworks Founder

Onishi wrote:
+1, this sounds purely awesome

+1, another strong blog entry

Goblin Squad Member

Are there different types of camps for harvesting different natural resources and do you have to develop different skill lines to be able to harvest different ones? Will you be able to set up more than one type of camp at a time?

Will a single pc be able to follow the whole chain from harvesting to finished item? In other words, If one doesn't feel like harvesting on a particular day will it be an option to process what you have in stock or work on crafting a finished product?

Also, is this tied into the time based skill thing where I will have to train a skill for x amount of hours before I can go out and harvest/process/craft what I want to?

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Misere wrote:

Are there different types of camps for harvesting different natural resources and do you have to develop different skill lines to be able to harvest different ones? Will you be able to set up more than one type of camp at a time?

Will a single pc be able to follow the whole chain from harvesting to finished item? In other words, If one doesn't feel like harvesting on a particular day will it be an option to process what you have in stock or work on crafting a finished product?

Also, is this tied into the time based skill thing where I will have to train a skill for x amount of hours before I can go out and harvest/process/craft what I want to?

I believe careful readers will find answers to all of those questions in the blog.

(I don't mean to be a jerk, but I just don't have a lot of time to answer this at the moment...)

Goblin Squad Member

#$%~$!@%@#$%#$#^@#^^% :D :D :D :D :D :D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/subforlife

This new system sounds INCREDIBLE! It covers a lot of the ideas I have been talking about.

I absolutely cannot wait to play this game now. I especially like the part in the blog that says:

"There may be more active engagement with the crafting job as well; we envision many sorts of 'mini-games' that crafters will participate in to ensure their jobs are completed."

My one concern with this system while reading it was there might not be enough player involvement in crafting for a dedicated crafter to have much to do. But the blog even addresses that!

Absolutely amazing. I love everything about this blog.

Goblin Squad Member

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This is pretty exciting for me--it sounds like you will really need to be socially engaged to be economically viable. I love the idea that one of the reasons my fighter has trained as a warrior is so that when my company goes out to set up a camp, I'm the first line of defense for protecting them. And I need them to outfit me--I can see how my whole guild, which has this mix of PvP and PvE, explorers and crafters, etc. could all figure out a niche in PO and then as a whole be a cohesive unit.

This absolutely appeals to my inner Marine :)

Goblin Squad Member

Mbando wrote:

This is pretty exciting for me--it sounds like you will really need to be socially engaged to be economically viable. I love the idea that one of the reasons my fighter has trained as a warrior is so that when my company goes out to set up a camp, I'm the first line of defense for protecting them. And I need them to outfit me--I can see how my whole guild, which has this mix of PvP and PvE, explorers and crafters, etc. could all figure out a niche in PO and then as a whole be a cohesive unit.

This absolutely appeals to my inner Marine :)

Exactly, and no part of that needs to be themepark. It is all just your character (and friends) living in the world offered by GW. Instead of wasting their time with content on rails, they can concentrate on giving us a well built world. Awesomeness.


Fascinating. A blend of SWG and EVE.

The crux of this is going to hinge on "can we develop our archetype and crafting abilities simultaneously?"

Goblin Squad Member

What if crafting is an archetype...?

Goblin Squad Member

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I've read the blog post a few times, and it looks to me like all three paths are skill driven, merit-badge indexed:

Harvesting: "Your camp will function even when you are not present, although it may be less efficient without your direct supervision. The number of camps you can manage simultaneously will be affected by your skills and merit badges."

Processing: "The efficiency of a processing job is a function of the quality of the building, the attitudes of the common folk who work in that settlement, and the skills and merit badges of the character overseeing the work."

Crafting: "As a crafter, you'll need to seek out knowledge to ply your trade. You'll be searching for the training needed to master skills and earn merit badges associated with each type of product you wish to produce.

So there's likely two possible routes:

1) Knowledge domains are all in one tranche, and so gaining expertise in one domain, i.e. harvesting, means taking away from expertise gains in another, i.e. fighter.

2) Knowledge domains are spread across two or more tranches, i.e. an adventuring tranche (wizard, ranger, fighter, etc.) and an economic tranche (harvesting, processing and crafting). Then I can concentrate on skilling to capstone in a class (wizard) while also learning a trade (crafter).

Goblin Squad Member

randomwalker wrote:
Will we need to eat?

I expect the Commoners will be the primary Food consumers. There will probably be Food for PCs too, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were just an optional buff.

Quandary wrote:
So it sounds like the Harvesting 'skills' may be as much about Harvesting 'management' as swinging pick-axes, etc?

I actually got the impression that there wouldn't be any swinging pick-axes for PCs.

Andius wrote:
/subforlife

So, how about it? $400 lifetime subscription?

Goblin Squad Member

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Mbando wrote:

So there's likely two possible routes:

1) Knowledge domains are all in one tranche, and so gaining expertise in one domain, i.e. harvesting, means taking away from expertise gains in another, i.e. fighter.

2) Knowledge domains are spread across two or more tranches, i.e. an adventuring tranche (wizard, ranger, fighter, etc.) and an economic tranche (harvesting, processing and crafting). Then I can concentrate on skilling to capstone in a class (wizard) while also learning a trade (crafter).

I would prefer a 3rd option where the players could apportion their skill training time to as many simultaneous skills as they want. For example, I could divide my skill training time 50/50 between my adventuring archetype and my crafting. Or I could advance 5 different adventuring skills simultaneously but only at 20% rate. Or I could tweak the slider so that all 5 would finish simultaneously, but still no faster than if I had trained them sequentially.

Goblin Squad Member

Vic Wertz wrote:
Misere wrote:

Are there different types of camps for harvesting different natural resources and do you have to develop different skill lines to be able to harvest different ones? Will you be able to set up more than one type of camp at a time?

Will a single pc be able to follow the whole chain from harvesting to finished item? In other words, If one doesn't feel like harvesting on a particular day will it be an option to process what you have in stock or work on crafting a finished product?

Also, is this tied into the time based skill thing where I will have to train a skill for x amount of hours before I can go out and harvest/process/craft what I want to?

I believe careful readers will find answers to all of those questions in the blog.

(I don't mean to be a jerk, but I just don't have a lot of time to answer this at the moment...)

No problem. I know you are very busy. I will just listen to everyone else chat about it.

Goblin Squad Member

I actually hope that knowledge and professions are in an independent yet equal skill tree than that of archetypes. But, I think training a skill is training a skill. I am not against Nihimon's suggestion above, but training knowledge should be equal to training a sword skill. Other than Nihimon's revised queue all skills should train exclusively.


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Shut up. Just shut up.

You had me at "depletion" and "scarcity". You had me at "depletion" and "scarcity."

I understand higher base camp quality/complexity is achievable. Will it be possible to upgrade crafted camps? Blog mentioned adding resource, which sounds great. Will there be slots to add a craftable item to slightly increase the hopper capacity or mining speed or perhaps npc security? Part of my fun in Eve was planning/fitting out higher level mining ships with higher level upgrades as skill progressed.

Will there be different camp types depending for different resource? hunting? farm? lumber?

I'm excited about the resource depletion and competing against other gatherers. Once depleted, will the resource spawn in a different location? That chase was a lot of fun in SWG. Eve moon mining resources seem to come back in the exact same location, which is not that challenging.

Will there be a survey skill?

Resource quality - Will this be a tiered system, with only differences being between a high sec and low sec area? I'm hoping there will be more variation than Eve. Is this a simple green/blue/purple-like themepark resource/item level system? You hinted at different quality of same resource effecting crafted quality. Can you flesh that out at all?

Goblin Squad Member

Misere wrote:
Are there different types of camps for harvesting different natural resources and do you have to develop different skill lines to be able to harvest different ones? Will you be able to set up more than one type of camp at a time?

I didn't read anything to suggest there would be different kinds of camps for different kinds of resources, only that there would be different complexities of camps for different complexities of resources. If that's accurate, I'm thinking it would take a basic camp to extract copper next to an NPC Settlement, but might take a really elaborate camp to extract mithril next to a dragon's lair - and that same elaborate camp could also be used to extract exquisite marble somewhere else.

Misere wrote:
Will a single pc be able to follow the whole chain from harvesting to finished item? In other words, If one doesn't feel like harvesting on a particular day will it be an option to process what you have in stock or work on crafting a finished product?

Yep.

Quote:
Characters can be developed over time to become extremely diverse in their competencies in each area, or can narrowly specialize from the top to the bottom of a whole production chain.
Misere wrote:
Also, is this tied into the time based skill thing where I will have to train a skill for x amount of hours before I can go out and harvest/process/craft what I want to?

Almost certainly.

Quote:
As a crafter, you'll need to seek out knowledge to ply your trade. You'll be searching for the training needed to master skills and earn merit badges associated with each type of product you wish to produce.

(hat tip Mbando)

Goblin Squad Member

Megatroid wrote:

Shut up. Just shut up.

You had me at "depletion" and "scarcity". You had me at "depletion" and "scarcity."

LOL

Megatroid wrote:
Will there be different camp types depending for different resource? hunting? farm? lumber?

I didn't read anything that would suggest that. Although I would be surprised if there were different types of consumable tools and supplies required for different types of resources.

Quote:
Common folk extracting medium and higher level resources may also require you to keep them stocked with consumable tools and supplies.

Goblin Squad Member

Thank you, Nihimon. =) I have trouble grasping the whole time skill learning thing probably because I never got involved in EVE so I ask things that seem pretty silly or simple. I am intrigued by what I read in all the blogs but its all very different than what I am used to. I enjoy seeing all the posts everyone contributes that sheds light into something that seems very alien to me so ya'll keep talking and I will keep reading.


Awesome! Just awesomeness!!! I really can't complain about anything in the system. Although I do think there was a hint somewhere in the blog about wagon raiding? You guys are doing an awesome job at listening and making! Keep up with the good work!

Goblin Squad Member

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One question I have thought of since reading it is... how will management of these structures work in terms of a community?

I know the basic idea is, high productivity when the owner is on doing things to speed along the processes of his buildings, low productivity with the chance of a productivity halt when the owner is offline, not overseeing production.

We know if the owner (Bob) is offline, and his friend (Rogar) is online, and Bob's lumbercamp comes under attack by goblins, his friend Rogar can come and kill those goblins so his camp can continue it's work.

What about if Bob is offline and there is a log-jam in his lumbermill. Can his friend Larry un-stick it? Will his friend Larry need skills in running lumbermills to do so? Will different tasks need different skills, where even Rogar the Barbarian who only knows how to smash things can un-stick a log-jam but only his skilled friend Larry can fix a broken saw-blade?

Goblin Squad Member

Misere wrote:
Thank you, Nihimon. =)

You're most welcome. I enjoy parsing the blogs, looking for clues and hints and interesting dynamics :)

Goblin Squad Member

While the depth of crafting looks awsome, the vulnerability to pvp is off-putting. I hope you realize that the number of players out looking to gank a wagon will far outnumber the players willing to protect a wagon.

You're effectively limiting any serious harvesting to large guilds.

Goblin Squad Member

There's certainly a balance to be had here. If the design choices of the dev team give anti-social behavior a higher risk to reward ratio than being social--if we get a kind of Road Warrior "psycho killah land," than yea, this game will be anti-social and suck (for people like me at least). But if being anti-social is hard, has a risk to reward ratio such that it happens, but isn't the norm, it could be a great game that has exciting challenges you can't get at a theme park: social interactions.

Goblinworks Executive Founder

Rafkin wrote:

While the depth of crafting looks awsome, the vulnerability to pvp is off-putting. I hope you realize that the number of players out looking to gank a wagon will far outnumber the players willing to protect a wagon.

You're effectively limiting any serious harvesting to large guilds.

The number of wagons available to gank is a function of the number of players operating camps. If nobody harvests, then nobody can hijack the wagon; if no wagons get through, very soon nobody harvests. If nobody harvests, then waiting for a wagon becomes unprofitable, and people do other things- allowing future wagons through.

Also, every group looking to gank a wagon for profit is also, by definition, willing to protect that wagon from other groups looking to do the same thing. I think protection rackets will be the ultimate defense against mass ganking.

Goblin Squad Member

Rafkin wrote:

I hope you realize that the number of players out looking to gank a wagon will far outnumber the players willing to protect a wagon.

You're effectively limiting any serious harvesting to large guilds.

Yes, I think serious harvesting will be done by large groups. But there will always be solo prospectors looking for a wildcat strike.

Getting a wagonload of resources out of the wilderness and back to a civilized area will be a challenge. It would be useful therefore to think about becoming an effective teamster able to drive fast, move quietly, detect threats, and use cover and camouflage to hide.

Or hire someone who is.

Grand Lodge

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Ryan Dancey wrote:
Rafkin wrote:

I hope you realize that the number of players out looking to gank a wagon will far outnumber the players willing to protect a wagon.

You're effectively limiting any serious harvesting to large guilds.

Yes, I think serious harvesting will be done by large groups. But there will always be solo prospectors looking for a wildcat strike.

Getting a wagonload of resources out of the wilderness and back to a civilized area will be a challenge. It would be useful therefore to think about becoming an effective teamster able to drive fast, move quietly, detect threats, and use cover and camouflage to hide.

Or hire someone who is.

Like ninja mining, exploration and ratting in EVE. Getting the loot is only half the fun. Getting it home is an adventure in and of itself.

This game is going to be so awesome. This is the fantasy game I've wanted to play since the first Pool of Radiance.

Shadow Lodge

Have I read this wrong?

From my perusal of the blog, your role in crafting is purely managerial, and your character will never actually make something themselves - instead they'll oversee some NPCs who craft for you.

Well, there go my plans for being a legendary swordsmith (in the style of Kill Bill's Hanzo Hattori). I don't even get to say "this sword is made with the sweat of my brow. I tore the ore from the earth with these hands, drew forth the iron from the ore with these hands, and fashioned the blade with these hands. This is my sword." Instead, I say "I had some mooks mine, smelt and forge this sword for me. Yay."

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you're supporting the large-scale operations that merchant-types will want to run, but some support for people who actually want to be crafters might be nice too.

Goblin Squad Member

Kalmyel, I agree that the design caters more to 'capitalists' than to 'artisans'. But the thing about 'hiring some mooks' is that they will never be able to produce legendary swords on their own - they just do what you show them, and it is your skill as a swordsmith that matters.


The idea of camps harvesting in the wilderness made me think: will there be camps that can tame animals/monsters? That really seems like something that wouldn't need 3 tiers (including Processing), more like just 2, capturing (or raising) and training.

How are PC/NPC mounts and beasts of burden going to be handled?
It seems reasonable for them to be made via a similar system...?
What is the longest time period going to be to produce a unit/ a 'batch' of product?
Years to raise livestock or horses isn't going to work, probably 2 weeks would be ALOT.

Goblin Squad Member

Thank you thank you thank you.

This is now officially.. the game I will be playing.

Absolutely everything about this design and system sounds utterly brilliant and I now cannot wait :)


Chris Lambertz wrote:
Added discussion thread for Goblinworks Blog: Butchers, Bakers and Candlestick Makers.

Finally something for me.

I want to be a professional merchant/crafter. That to me is way way more important than combat. As a result I'm finding it really hard to find an MMO that I like. Whilst I'm not mad on the Cut-throat nature of eve, I'm willing to look at this game purely for its Crafting and buildings ecosystem.

I'm wathching this blog even more closely now than I was before

:)

Goblin Squad Member

Kalmyel Stedwethren wrote:

Have I read this wrong?

From my perusal of the blog, your role in crafting is purely managerial, and your character will never actually make something themselves - instead they'll oversee some NPCs who craft for you.

Well, there go my plans for being a legendary swordsmith (in the style of Kill Bill's Hanzo Hattori). I don't even get to say "this sword is made with the sweat of my brow. I tore the ore from the earth with these hands, drew forth the iron from the ore with these hands, and fashioned the blade with these hands. This is my sword." Instead, I say "I had some mooks mine, smelt and forge this sword for me. Yay."

Don't get me wrong, it's good that you're supporting the large-scale operations that merchant-types will want to run, but some support for people who actually want to be crafters might be nice too.

They did say there will be mini-games involved in making production go more smoothly, and the only example given was un-jamming logs, no more details were given.

That means there is the possibility you may actually be taking a hand in the work. Some of these mini-games might have you pumping the bellows or beating hot iron, or tempering the blade in water. Who knows?

I think they will give us enough to do that we feel invested in our crafting rather than just "Let me sit back while my peons make stuff for me!" like you have in game such as Pirates of the Burning Sea. Those are at least my hopes. That we have commoners working for us day in, and day out, but that when we get online and invest time in our crafting it will be fun, and the extra benefits will be rewarding enough to justify us doing it.

DeciusBrutus wrote:

The number of wagons available to gank is a function of the number of players operating camps. If nobody harvests, then nobody can hijack the wagon; if no wagons get through, very soon nobody harvests. If nobody harvests, then waiting for a wagon becomes unprofitable, and people do other things- allowing future wagons through.

Also, every group looking to gank a wagon for profit is also, by definition, willing to protect that wagon from other groups looking to do the same thing. I think protection rackets will be the ultimate defense against mass ganking.

Those protecting wagons will be better trained, and better organized. I intend to see to that personally.

That, and we always will and always have been better looking. ;)


Forencith wrote:
What if crafting is an archetype...?

I hope not ... not based on what has been explained about getting the capstones.

Goblin Squad Member

Kalmyel Stedwethren wrote:
Well, there go my plans for being a legendary swordsmith (in the style of Kill Bill's Hanzo Hattori). I don't even get to say "this sword is made with the sweat of my brow. I tore the ore from the earth with these hands, drew forth the iron from the ore with these hands, and fashioned the blade with these hands. This is my sword." Instead, I say "I had some mooks mine, smelt and forge this sword for me. Yay."

I think your pessimism is unwarranted.

Quote:
There may be more active engagement with the crafting job as well; we envision many sorts of "mini-games" that crafters will participate in to ensure their jobs are completed.

Sure, you may have "mooks" haul buckets of coal into the forge, shovel the coal into the fire, and pump the bellows. But I seriously doubt you'll get through the whole process without the hammer ringing in your hands while the sweat of your brow drips.

Goblin Squad Member

All I can say is.... Simply Awesome!

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