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RPG Superstar 2015

Ultimate Classes: Pretty Please?


Pathfinder RPG General Discussion

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The Bestiary III came out fairly recently and now I'm waiting for the advanced raced guide. Ultimate Equipment should be fun and so should the Bestiary IV. But what next?

I feel like an Ultimate Class Guide would be in order. This is something I'd be really interested in buying if it ever came out, and I feel like there's a world of stuff to be added.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Would this be a book with more base classes and/or prestige classes?

Or would it have more archetypes, additional class features (rage powers, sub-domains, hexes, spells, rogue talents, etc.), favored class bonuses, etc. etc.


There is a Prestige Class book in the pipeline.

Liberty's Edge

As much as I want to see such a book I think both the Epic and Psionic book should come out firat. That way you can include classess from both books into the Ultimate Classes book.


I hope everything Epic and Psionic stays in its own book, just preference. I'd rather see Ultimate Prestige next.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I'm not a big fan of epic stuff or psionic stuff, but understand a lot of people really like one or both of them. I think it would be a good idea to have an epic book and a psionic book, but it would also be a good idea to keep them relatively self-contained. That way, people who don't want to deal with those sub-systems don't have to, but people who do want to use those sub-systems can have their cake and eat it too.


I was thinking prestige classes would be a big part of it, but I'm glad there's a plan in the works for them. Pathfinder has a ton of cool classes but I'm sure there are others that would be fun:

-A class that focuses on shapeshifting but isn't a tree hugger. Maybe he chooses a form (Undead, Magical Creature, etc.) and customizes that second form in a similar way to how the summoner customizes his eidelon. He spits magic in his natural form and can change out to get stronger, sneakier, faster, grow wings, whatever.

-A ray specialist spellcaster. Anyone remember the warlock from 3.5?

-A straight up necromancer

-A non prestige archer/caster class.

-A siege weapon specialist could be fun as hell. He could stay relevant outside of large battles by carrying around small ballistas and similar equipment. If small siege or siege like weaponry could be carried around by one man with great skill with them, we'd have a unique type of class.

-A take on the "jack of all trades" idea but um... not the bard.


Sadly no Bestiary 4 coming up, since the NPC Codex will be coming out.

But, I am glad to see a book about Prestige classes is coming out. I can actually see a Necromancer Prestige class for the wizard or cleric (or both) which would honestly rock so hard.

I'd also like to see a shapeshifter class with more of an infiltrator slant to it

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I want a class that emphasizes movement in combat, kind of like a combo of the 3.5 scout with its skirmish ability and the 3.5 swashbuckler. Maybe the ability to combine Spring Attack and Vital Strike.


memorax wrote:
As much as I want to see such a book I think both the Epic and Psionic book should come out firat. That way you can include classess from both books into the Ultimate Classes book.

I'd be able to die happy if Paizo came out with an official Psionics book for Pathfinder.


I would really second a book like this. Sort of an advanced players 2 feel but strictly focus on character DEVELOPMENT options. Maybe 3 to 4 base classes (maybe not, I think there is room for an arcane ranger but that could be an archetype.

Spontaneous Magus.

Light Armor Full BAB Mobile Fighter Best Fort and Reflex and Evasion.

Prepared 2/3rd Divine Caster with cool tricks, probably also full bab, true warrior cleric. This could really help fill in where the NON LG paladins would lie.)

But the main idea would be to give interesting things to characters who branch out after 8-10 levels. Prestige classes are great and I love them. I would really like to see something for gunslinger/monk. Gun kata horray! But also archetypes you don't have to take at first level. Interesting feats that may have steep prerequisites but are not feat trees. Also, maybe an interesting option instead of attribute increase every 4 level, to take some other boon.

In short, a book of Archetypes, Prestige Classes, Feats, New Interesting Swaps to develop characters after creation.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

the people at paizo have said themselves that a psionics book will not be done by them for a long while, if ever and i don't know how necessary a prestige class book is considering that the are more or less covered by the archetype system. However i would welcome some books like the complete series(complete warrior, complete arcane,...) that was done for 3.5.

Silver Crusade

13 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

No more base classes, please.

Not many more prestige classes, please.

Just say no to bloat. It's almost too big as it is now.


+1 on the bloat. I'd rather see more adventures flushed out. Maybe an in depth hardcover book on Absalom. Something that mimics Waterdeep/Sharn. Or go for the ultimate and mimic Ptolus.

Dark Archive

Gorbacz wrote:

No more base classes, please.

Not many more prestige classes, please.

Just say no to bloat. It's almost too big as it is now.

Agreed. Just a "Ultimate Subsystems" to collect and compile all those situational and colourful mini-games, and then stop adding rules.

It's a fairly complex system right from the start, adding even more options, alternatives, details (while leaving in the shadows somewhat less defined facets of the game such as environments), won't end well.

Shadow Lodge

Gorbacz wrote:

No more base classes, please.

Not many more prestige classes, please.

Just say no to bloat. It's almost too big as it is now.

+1...

billion

Dreamscarred has filled the psionics hole quite nicely.

Actually, I could stand to have one more base class, a steampunk/mad scientist/inventor type. Based in science, not magic (ie, his abilties should all be Ex, not Su or SLA).

He'd be perfect for a Ultimate Tech book.

But unfortunately I don't think Paizo really has any desire to go that direction.


SmiloDan wrote:
Maybe the ability to combine Spring Attack and Vital Strike.

I must have been reading them wrong, I thought they combined already. GM fail on my part.

Silver Crusade

DeathMetal4tw wrote:

I was thinking prestige classes would be a big part of it, but I'm glad there's a plan in the works for them. Pathfinder has a ton of cool classes but I'm sure there are others that would be fun:

-A class that focuses on shapeshifting but isn't a tree hugger. Maybe he chooses a form (Undead, Magical Creature, etc.) and customizes that second form in a similar way to how the summoner customizes his eidelon. He spits magic in his natural form and can change out to get stronger, sneakier, faster, grow wings, whatever.

Rite Publishing's Taskshaper.

Or for the evolution mechanics, my own Alchemist Host.

Quote:
-A ray specialist spellcaster. Anyone remember the warlock from 3.5?

There are tons of warlock conversions out there, and Rite Publishing again will soon release The Secrets of The Warlock.

Quote:
-A straight up necromancer

Super Genius Games's Death Mage.

Quote:
-A non prestige archer/caster class.

Already doable without sucking thanks to multiclassing/archetypes.

Quote:
-A siege weapon specialist could be fun as hell. He could stay relevant outside of large battles by carrying around small ballistas and similar equipment. If small siege or siege like weaponry could be carried around by one man with great skill with them, we'd have a unique type of class.

Re-fluff the culverin and double hackbut, or Siege Wizard with small-sized siege engine.

Quote:

-A take on the "jack of all trades" idea but um... not the bard.

Rogue. Or bard, since they are awesome. Don't let anyone say the contrary. Or 3.5's Factotum.


Maxximilius wrote:


Quote:
-A ray specialist spellcaster. Anyone remember the warlock from 3.5?

There are tons of warlock conversions out there, and Rite Publishing again will soon release The Secrets of The Warlock.

Am I the only one who likes Adamant's Warlock?

I ask because most posts seem oblivious to it's existance. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved; I am saying it's pretty good as is.

Silver Crusade

unnambed wrote:


Am I the only one who likes Adamant's Warlock?

I ask because most posts seem oblivious to it's existance. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved; I am saying it's pretty good as is.

I don't like it, even if I don't even know what the original warlock looked like. I have yet to see people who loved the warlock and who love Adamant's version... or most of the Tome of Secrets's content, by the way, considering the poor execution of it. There are lots of interesting ideas and concepts in the Tome of Secrets, but you have so much broken mechanics to fiat that ultimately, I wouldn't suggest the book when others did the same but did it better.


Maxximilius wrote:

I don't like it, even if I don't even know what the original warlock looked like. I have yet to see people who loved the warlock and who love Adamant's version... or most of the Tome of Secrets's content, by the way, considering the poor execution of it. There are lots of interesting ideas and concepts in the Tome of Secrets, but you have so much broken mechanics to fiat that ultimately, I wouldn't suggest the book when others did the same but did it better.

That is fair.

Star Voter 2013, Dedicated Voter 2014

I like the Priest out of Tome of Secrets. I also like Occupations, though I'd stick with starting money by adventuring class and just add a bonus based on the amount shown for Occupation without the x10 multiplier.

Personally, what I'd like to see in an Ultimate Classes book would be a compilation of all the classes and class options from all of the other books in one centralized book.

And by that, I don't mean a reprint of feats or spell lists, but each class and it's archtypes and other options (such as FC options), one chapter each, all in a nice, easy, centralized source.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd buy book with all the classes from the Core, APG, UM, UC and other published archetypes with additional archetypes.


Spiral_Ninja wrote:

Personally, what I'd like to see in an Ultimate Classes book would be a compilation of all the classes and class options from all of the other books in one centralized book.

And by that, I don't mean a reprint of feats or spell lists, but each class and it's archtypes and other options (such as FC options), one chapter each, all in a nice, easy, centralized source.

This, most definitely. Even though I own everything, having a single book with the class material all compiled would be fabulous. It could also include updates for the material released under 3.5 rules.

Then there could be follow-up compilations for feats and spells...


I wouldn't mind an ultimate archetype book.

They're really making an ultimate prestige book? ugh, was so happy when i thought they gave up on prestige classes. There's one book i won't be adding to the campaign.


no new classes, and therefore no new rules/subgames

therefore no psionics

epic book would be cool,

more stuff to help the core classes would be good too


If only Paizo would work with Dreamscarred Press...


I'm actually pretty happy about the Prestige Class book. I really miss them since I enjoy multiclassing a lot. Always felt like a cool upgrade when you got into one.


I would welcome a prestige class book if they allowed me to stack my prestige class better with my base classes. then I at least would have a reason to leave the main class and not feel like I am losing out in the end. Also, prestige classes that allow entry relatively early would be nice for PFS players as well. Mostly what I would want to see is already out through Dreamscarred Press' psionic book and Super Genius Games Feats of Multiclassing as well as the Race guide and Ultimate Equipment. If I had to pick something it would be more compilation books like those that added a few new things as well as organized stuff found in other books.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Kakitamike wrote:

I wouldn't mind an ultimate archetype book.

They're really making an ultimate prestige book? ugh, was so happy when i thought they gave up on prestige classes. There's one book i won't be adding to the campaign.

The prestige book is called Paths of Prestige, it's a 64-page softcover as a part of Pathfinder Campaign Setting line, the PrCs are Golarion-specific and no Ultimate Prestige book was announced yet (and hopefully never will be).

Shadow Lodge

At this point, I'd be happy if the only thing put out in the RPG line beyond Ultimate Equipment was a bestiary every couple of years, and an Ultimate Templates book.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
was a bestiary every couple of years, and an Ultimate Templates book.

What do you mean "every couple of years", there's no such thing as too many bestiaries!

Shadow Lodge

Well, I figure one of the reasons that they replaced the bestiary THIS year is to let more good ideas brew. I don't want a bestiary every years if bestiary 6 consists of a bunch of rejects from the first five bestiaries because they couldn't think of anything better.

I'd rather their ideas outpace the book schedule than the opposite.


There are so few things that you CAN'T do with the existing classes and archetypes that I don't think this is necessary.

The only things that need to be "Pathfinder-ized" have already been done to death by the fan base (artificer and warlock, ugh), require virtually no conversion from 3.5 (Dragon Shaman; excellent, excellent class), or would be really wonky to work with in the first place (teleporter/jumper/gatemage type class would be amazing, but easily abused).

Aside from that, I don't want Paizo to publish ANYTHING that we ask for. My logic: every time we ask for something, we are unsatisfied with it. When we get surprises, we are ecstatic. I'd rather just not suggest anything and be happy with what I get.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Foghammer wrote:
Aside from that, I don't want Paizo to publish ANYTHING that we ask for. My logic: every time we ask for something, we are unsatisfied with it. When we get surprises, we are ecstatic. I'd rather just not suggest anything and be happy with what I get.

This.

I gotta say I love Paizo as a company and glad for the support that they provide for their game. IF not for Paizo I'm not sure that I'd still be playing RPG's.

But Paizo fans (at least the ones on this board) are some of the whineyest, complaininest, unnecessarily rudest fans I've ever seen. And I've been on the WOTC boards.

I know that most of the people who are complaining about a lack of high level play support are going to be trying to CASTRATE Buhlman and whoever else works on that book if IT ISNT EXACTLY what they want.

Im dreading the release of Ultimate Races (or whatever it's called). Just for the fact that people are going to be taking Paizo to task for A. Power Creep B. The solution ISNT EXACTLY WHAT THEY WANTED. C. The fact that they felt that there was nothing wrong with level adjustments and why couldn't they implement them whole hog so there'd be no need for a new book (Paizo just wants us to spend money on a new book! BOO!!!) . or D. all of the craziness above.

Man, I love my hobbies but sometimes I REALLY hate the fandom.

P.S. I'm not talkin about civil, constructive criticism. There's enough of it here as well and that's to be encouraged.


I simply like the idea of prestige classes because it helps to make multiclassing more fun and interesting. It's why I like the way they did the APG prestige classes. It made really cool multiclassing options that aren't overpowered and give cool options you can't quite get with just an archetype. I hope they continue this route.


Odraude wrote:
I simply like the idea of prestige classes because it helps to make multiclassing more fun and interesting. It's why I like the way they did the APG prestige classes. It made really cool multiclassing options that aren't overpowered and give cool options you can't quite get with just an archetype. I hope they continue this route.

I couldn't agree more. PrC's should further multi-class builds AND setting specific flavorful options (like the RMA). I'm really looking forward to the Splatbook.


Gorbacz wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
was a bestiary every couple of years, and an Ultimate Templates book.
What do you mean "every couple of years", there's no such thing as too many bestiaries!

One could argue that fear of bloat applies to Bestiaries too.


Spiral_Ninja wrote:

I like the Priest out of Tome of Secrets. I also like Occupations, though I'd stick with starting money by adventuring class and just add a bonus based on the amount shown for Occupation without the x10 multiplier.

Personally, what I'd like to see in an Ultimate Classes book would be a compilation of all the classes and class options from all of the other books in one centralized book.

And by that, I don't mean a reprint of feats or spell lists, but each class and it's archtypes and other options (such as FC options), one chapter each, all in a nice, easy, centralized source.

Yeah, it's interesting, but pretty much every class introduced in the Tome of Secrets has received a large number of criticisms since the book came out, with the exception of the Priest class. The Warlord class from the same book, has received some mixed positive reviews, but the consensus I've seen is that other classes do what this class tries to do better (War Master and Cavalier).


Gorbacz wrote:

No more base classes, please.

Not many more prestige classes, please.

Just say no to bloat. It's almost too big as it is now.

I have to agree. I suppose a Companion on Golarion specific archeypes would be ok, along the lines of the upcoming Prestige Class book

but i dont want 280 pages of new classes and the like


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I know some others have suggested it, but I personally have no interest in a book that simply compiles and reprints classes and archetypes I've seen elsewhere. It's not that such a book wouldn't be handy, but I just don't see the point in shelling out $30+ for such a book when I can just walk 10 feet to my bookcase or open all the class chapters from the assorted books in different tabs of my PDF reader.

Also, at this point, prestige classes hold more interest for me than yet more base classes. I still haven't fully learneded all the new base classes from APG, UM, and UC (let alone all the alt-classes and archetypes), but at least with prestige classes they aren't all options I have to contend with when my group creates brand new 1st level PCs.

One thing I'd really like to see covered in a book specifically focused on prestige classes (and therefore multiclassing) is a better treatment of the multiclassing rules. I was rather disappointed that Pathfinder didn't make the like-stacking rules for BAB and saves core. Likewise, it would be nice if some rules could be created that allow multi-classed casters to be more viable.

Anyway, that's my 2cp...

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I like the idea of multi-class enhancing prestige classes, like the eldritch knight and arcane trickster. Also, prestige classes that do some neat and fun things the base classes cannot do.


Pathfinder Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I understand the arguments that say Prestige Classes should be settings specific, but to play devil's advocate, Prestige Classes like the Arcane Trickster or the Assassin work better for DMs who play outside of settings like Golarion as compared to Prestige Classes like the Hellknight or the Low Templar. When you make a big book of Prestige Classes, all of them tied to Golarion's lore and fluff, then you're basically telling people that if you want to use Prestige Classes, you need to either forcibly add all of a Prestige Classes lore and fluff to your own world, heavily alter existing Prestige Classes' mechanics so that you can make new lore that fits your setting, or simply make tons of Prestige Classes on your own that weren't subjected to untold amounts of playtesting and ideas-bouncing with other players.

Because seriously, how many of you pop down into the Homebrew / Suggestion forums to give advice to people who have made new prestige classes / base classes / etc. for their campaigns and want imput? I can honestly say that I don't often do it. ;-P

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32 , Dedicated Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

I know we always use homebrew campaigns, so setting specific prestige classes need to be altered or ignored, which is kind of sad, considering all the hard work the designers put into their classes.


Laithoron wrote:
I know some others have suggested it, but I personally have no interest in a book that simply compiles and reprints classes and archetypes I've seen elsewhere. It's not that such a book wouldn't be handy, but I just don't see the point in shelling out $30+ for such a book when I can just walk 10 feet to my bookcase or open all the class chapters from the assorted books in different tabs of my PDF reader.

Updates, mostly. My perspective on it comes from the fact that, if Paizo decides to reprint something, they can go in and rework the prestige class or archtype to make it more appealing to players.

An example would be the Harrower; in another thread ( http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz292w?Is-the-Harrower-prestige-classe-worth-it ), James Jacobs clearly says the class is getting updated. A book that compiles the other prestige classes would allow Paizo to go in and redo the other classes as well.


How about Ultimate Buddy - a book devoted to Leadership, cohorts, animal companions, familiars and other allied NPCs?

Scarab Sages

1 person marked this as a favorite.
HappyDaze wrote:
How about Ultimate Buddy - a book devoted to Leadership, cohorts, animal companions, familiars and other allied NPCs?

Heck yeah. Ultimate Companion, or whatever, devoted to animal companions, bonded mounts, familiars, eidolons, shadowdancer shadow companions, cohorts, followers, henchmen, hirelings and run of the mill trained mundane animals!

The Handle Animal / training rules could be gussied up a bit, in such a book, as well as new rules options or PrCs or Archetypes to cover other sorts of 'minion-mancers,' whether they be Thrallherd-esque enchanters, construct-creators, conjurers, shadow-callers or necromancers, or clerics / oracles with abilities like the command undead feat or the spirit vessels mystery.

Druids, Rangers and Summoners are the most obvious beneficiaries, but there at least three cleric domains or sub-domains that grant animal companions, paladins and cavaliers can be mount-based, wizards and witches (and some sorcerers) get familiars, etc. Even the classes that don't automatically get 'pets' can take Leadership, or train a dog, or hire a henchman!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Harrison wrote:

Updates, mostly. ...

A book that compiles the other prestige classes would allow Paizo to go in and redo the other classes as well.

Fair enough, but they can already redo classes (or anything else for that matter) and have the changes reflected in the PRD and updates to the books' associated PDF files. They do that sort of thing all the time with errata as is — doesn't mean it needs to require everyone to repurchase the dead tree version of that content though. ;)

Of course, if only a small portion of such a book was devoted to such reprints I suppose it wouldn't be too bad, I just have little to interest in a book that is predominantly composed of such rehashed material (which seemed to be what some folks were advocating).

Shadow Lodge

Harrison wrote:
An example would be the Harrower; in another thread ( http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz292w?Is-the-Harrower-prestige-classe-worth-it ), James Jacobs clearly says the class is getting updated. A book that compiles the other prestige classes would allow Paizo to go in and redo the other classes as well.

You do realize that the Harrower update was main aimed towards updating a class that only existed in 3.5 form to be fully PFRPG compliant, right? Not just to nudge an existing PFRPG class into line.


Want Epics, i need epic gameplay!

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