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Evilly Aligned PCs in Kingmaker


Kingmaker


I'm getting ready to run a Kingmaker pbp, and several of my players have expressed interest in playing evilly aligned characters. Normally, I would say no, but I know all of these players well, and they are all very mature adults. My only concern, however, is whether or not a group with evilly aligned members will have the cohesion to fulfill the goals in an adventure path. Has anyone else tried this?


Higginz wrote:
I'm getting ready to run a Kingmaker pbp, and several of my players have expressed interest in playing evilly aligned characters. Normally, I would say no, but I know all of these players well, and they are all very mature adults. My only concern, however, is whether or not a group with evilly aligned members will have the cohesion to fulfill the goals in an adventure path. Has anyone else tried this?

Have you asked them exactly how they plan to play evil? That seems to be the easiest way to figure this out. Some ways to play it can work well, especially if they want to figure out how they first got to work together. Others won't if they play up the random havoc.

I could see LE and NE doing fairly well, possibly even CE so long as they don't play your standard lolevil.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Higginz wrote:
I'm getting ready to run a Kingmaker pbp, and several of my players have expressed interest in playing evilly aligned characters. Normally, I would say no, but I know all of these players well, and they are all very mature adults. My only concern, however, is whether or not a group with evilly aligned members will have the cohesion to fulfill the goals in an adventure path. Has anyone else tried this?

That really is the key. If they can't work together ... well, no campaign. If their backgrounds allow them to work together maybe it can work. GMing evil pcs can be fun but normally it just doesn't work.


I reread the descriptions of the alignments in the Core rule book, and I noticed that "lawful evil" characters play by the rules, so I've decided my players can be lawful evil, but not neutral or chaotic evil. Honestly, with that description I don't see why lawful evil characters should ever be disallowed. Moreover, as a GM I will hold them to that description.


Higginz wrote:
I reread the descriptions of the alignments in the Core rule book, and I noticed that "lawful evil" characters play by the rules, so I've decided my players can be lawful evil, but not neutral or chaotic evil. Honestly, with that description I don't see why lawful evil characters should ever be disallowed. Moreover, as a GM I will hold them to that description.

I imagine because most APS assume a level of heroics and there's only so much handwaving on saving people before LE turns into grumpy good.


Caius wrote:
Higginz wrote:
I reread the descriptions of the alignments in the Core rule book, and I noticed that "lawful evil" characters play by the rules, so I've decided my players can be lawful evil, but not neutral or chaotic evil. Honestly, with that description I don't see why lawful evil characters should ever be disallowed. Moreover, as a GM I will hold them to that description.
I imagine because most APS assume a level of heroics and there's only so much handwaving on saving people before LE turns into grumpy good.

Yes, that's a good point, but you could say the same thing about neutral characters who sometimes break the rules out of self interest. I think there's some gray area around all of the alignments.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Even CE can work together. Unless they are played as Stupidly Evil or mentally deranged persons the simple rule of self interest and personal bonds will work (even CE guys have loved ones and friends even if often in a exploitative way).

In RL some of the strongest loyalty bonds about which I have read are for people I will call evil, often chaotic evil.

What matter is how your guys want to play them. the flow of events in Kingkmaker will work well for a evil groups interested in world domination 8or simply being rich and powerful). Followers of deranged elder goods will not work so well.

From my point of view, followers of Asmodeus, Norgorber, Nocicula or other similar gods will work. Followers of Lamashtu or Rovagug will not.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I think Kingmaker lends itself well to PCs of any alignment. Most foes are motivated by territorial disputes of various sorts, and are reacting to the encroachment of fairly proactive newcomers. You can either keep the enemies evil, in which case the conflict is just two evil forces butting heads, or some you can flip to good; Pitax could become an enlightened nation alarmed by the rise of a "new evil empire" on their borders. And really, the fey could go either way. The final adventure could easily be all about the "gentle folk" of the First World trying to blot out the foul stain spreading across their realm.

The nation-building rules are alignment-neutral as well; who's to say if that new barracks you just built is manned by freedom-loving volunteers or indentured warriors?

Someone on these boards once recommended that Kingmaker PCs should mutually determine a general "alignment" for their country. As a GM, I would start with that and just ask the players how they intend to run their evil nation. So long as your party of evil overlords avoids too much intrigue and backbiting within their inner circle, it should be easy to roll with whatever they decide.


My group is all lawful...1 x LG, 3 x LN, and 3 x LE

there united against chaos
there are forging a new order and civilisation within the stolen lands
ensure everyone works, everyone helps, everyone benefits.
..as long as they obey the laws of the land almost any monster is given a chance to join the kingdom!!

aside from a few issues on how to deal with fey, they have done pretty well. on the 5th mod now

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Use spoilers please.

Osirion

If the group is entirely evil or mixed neutral/evil you should have no problems with mature gamers. I recommend avoiding CE whenever possible, and also be sure to get each player to define their character goals and motivations to mesh with the other players. Perhaps they even share a common background.

There is really no more reason for conflict than there would be between a paladin and a CN thief. A lot of the hesitance is holdover from the days when certain players would use an evil alignment (or a paladin) as justification for being a jerk to the other players. If you can overcome this, I often find an evil party can offer unique approaches.

To illustrate, one of my current Kingmaker groups is comprised of a LN cleric, LE sorcerer, and NE assassin. They are forging a civilization from the untamed wilderness, and that takes guts and a merciless attitude (at least to them). When a neighbour or former ally betrays them, the response is typically swift and deadly. It's actually been a lot of fun watching them deal with problems. And it's not like they get to ignore hard role-playing dilemmas, they get all new ones.

Recent example:

Spoiler:

In the last adventure (inside cover quest), they are approached by a noble woman who offers a copy of Zuddigar's Picnic in exchange for statues to be built of her family. Normal ho-hum response: let's just do what she wants. Evil response: break into her mansion, take the book, and then have her arrested for treason and attempted blackmail of the emperor.

Makes for a nice change of pace at the table.


Jal Dorak wrote:
A lot of the hesitance is holdover from the days when certain players would use an evil alignment (or a paladin) as justification for being a jerk to the other players. If you can overcome this, I often find an evil party can offer unique approaches.

I wonder if some of it isn't also motivated by an effort to avoid the social repercussions that occurred in the '80s when people were accusing D&D of promoting bad behavior.

Anyway, after rereading the alignment descriptions, I have decided that I will usually allow lawful evil alignments. For now, I'm going to continue to eschew neutral and chaotic evil though.

Sczarni

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Check out my Campaign Journal, A Bandit King Arises!, here in the Campaign Journals section.

NE Druid, LE Cavalier, LE Transmuter, N Oracle (now a LN Monk), CN
Sorcerer, CN Barbarian.

It's worked for them so far (in book 6).

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