Mage armor and Synthesis summoner


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Liberty's Edge

A question came up that a synthesis summoner can cast mage armor on him/herself while fused with eidolon and the eidolion get the mage armo bonus. I thought he doesnt unless the spell is cast ON the Eidolon in which it gets armor bonus but summoner doesnt recieve it. meaning if Eidolon dies and is sent back the summoner must recast it on him/herself.

Dark Archive

The synthesist is one entity. He doesn't cast anything on the eidolon because the eidolon is basically a big outsidery buff.

Silver Crusade

The synthesist is broken. Unless you're playing one in a Society game, just ask your DM for their ruling. There are far too many unanswered questions, otherwise.

Dark Archive

The synthesist is less powerful than the core summoner.


Mergy wrote:
The synthesist is less powerful than the core summoner.

^^^This^^^


The EIDOLON is broken.
Synthesist is just silly broken.


The Summoner, synthesist or otherwise, is only broken if one or more people involved do not know how to make/play a summoner.

Silver Crusade

I don't mean broken as in overpowered (though that argument can be made), I mean broken as in unplayable as written because there are too many "corner cases" that require checking FAQs, errata, message boards, etc. By all means play one, but realize that your DM needs to adjudicate a LARGE portion of how the class works.


UltimaGabe wrote:
The Summoner, synthesist or otherwise, is only broken if one or more people involved do not know how to make/play a summoner.

Even then, it's still broken ;)

Dark Archive

uriel222 wrote:
I don't mean broken as in overpowered (though that argument can be made), I mean broken as in unplayable as written because there are too many "corner cases" that require checking FAQs, errata, message boards, etc. By all means play one, but realize that your DM needs to adjudicate a LARGE portion of how the class works.

That's not broken, that's just on the vague side. It could use some editing, and it does require a good amount of system mastery to make or GM one properly, but that's not what broken means.


they are both armor bonuses, the DO NOT stack, you get whichever is higher.
the Synthesis summoner is poorly worded, but not broken or over powered. Basically all they are, are REALLY beefy support casters

Dark Archive

Rapthorn2ndform wrote:

they are both armor bonuses, the DO NOT stack, you get whichever is higher.

the Synthesis summoner is poorly worded, but not broken or over powered. Basically all they are, are REALLY beefy support casters

What are both armour bonuses?

Sczarni

The undefined armor bonus which eidolon gets on levels?


Eidolon defenses are natural armor bonuses. So it should stack with mage armor.

Dark Archive

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Malag wrote:
The undefined armor bonus which eidolon gets on levels?

You can split that up into armour or natural armour. If you make the bonus all natural armour, it stacks fine with mage armour.


The Summoner if far from broken there are more than enough options to diminish their power. It is powerful yes but far from broken.

Sczarni

Mergy wrote:
Malag wrote:
The undefined armor bonus which eidolon gets on levels?
You can split that up into armour or natural armour. If you make the bonus all natural armour, it stacks fine with mage armour.

Thanks on clarify.


The OP's question isn't about balance... but I'm glad I read this. Was wondering it myself.

Sczarni

Realmwalker wrote:
The Summoner if far from broken there are more than enough options to diminish their power. It is powerful yes but far from broken.

Like what options? I could use some advice how to break them here and there. From the GM perspective of course.

Dark Archive

First of all, intelligent enemies will see and understand the intrinsic link between the eidolon and the summoner. Banish takes a lot of bite out of a core summoner, and almost all of it out of a synthesist. The summoner's only nice option at that point is the summon eidolon spell, and I believe that works only for a minute/level. That spell is also subject to dispel magic.

Summoners are okay buffers with a warrior cohort, or at best, a pouncing creature with many natural attacks. It will still be stymied by powerful foes, and especially by spells which send outsiders back to their native planes.

The synthesist is even more weak to tactics like this: have a spellcaster cast banish, and then have an archer ready an action to shoot the summoner when he tries to cast a spell. That's the end of him.


Not only that if you go for killer damage you tank AC if you go killer defense you lose out in damage, so it balances out. Synthesis pretty much is screwed if banish goes off. Eidolon is screwed if Summoner is taken out.

Again they are powerful, but not over powered. I've seen Druids out damage a Summoner. I've seen well Optimized Fighters out damage a Summoner. I've had more problems with GM groups with Alchemists over Summoners. Also I've had a Goblin Gunslinger BBEG take out a parties Eidolon.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Technically if the shared spellsfeature still works, they BOTH get the mage armor. Summoner's AC however isn't going to benefitmore than once.

Dark Archive

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LazarX wrote:
Technically if the shared spellsfeature still works, they BOTH get the mage armor. Summoner's AC however isn't going to benefitmore than once.

Once again, that's not how that class feature works in Pathfinder.


It might be 'broken', but it is also innovative and wonderfully different.

For a first version, it is fantastic. A bit difficult, yes, but the innovation and fresh perspective is worth the perspiration :-)


You can mage armour yourself, and you probably should. Synthesists can be so utterly taken out by sleep spells. Well, non-Elf-y ones.


I really don't believe the "Banishment and Dismissal are critical weaknesses" argument. Every synthesist I've made and seen in use would only fail their save on a one by the time these spells are relevant thanks to using the synthesist's will save. A synthesist can let there strength and dexterity tank a little to afford a wisdom bonus + the shielded meld ability + not having to decide who's wearing the cloak of resistance = A pretty good bonus. Antimagic field is far better for controlling a summoner of any kind.

From what I've seen, the summoner (in all forms) is a class that is easy to make powerful, even for new players, as it practically optimizes itself right out of the box.

To answer OP's original question, the eidolan and the synthesist are one creature that both benefit from a single spell. Even when the eidolan part goes away, the benefactor of the spell is still present and a legal target. Mage armor (or any other buff or debuff) will remain after the eidolon vacates.


Sigh, anyone who thinks antimagic is a valid option is going overboard. Use whatever strategy for a summoner you do for you Druids. I mean, the druid essentially is everything a summoner is better. His wildshape adds templates to him, allowing to kick butt similar to Synthesists. His Animal Companion is dangerous and gets its own magic item slots and is easily replaced. He can spontaneous summon, and finally has full spell-casting which includes some curing. Who on earth thinks a Summoner is broken after looking at a druid. And for OP, it is all paladin. Dang thing is almost unkillable. I have watched demons and dragons ripped apart single handedly by lone paladins with levels equal to their CR! (sorry for crap spelling/typing.)


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/harne ss-eidolon-anchoring

And that item allows the synthesist to basically ignore the antimagic field anyways. (and dismissal and banishment)

I say just let mage armor stack. Nothing had a chance of hitting the summoner anyways. What's 4 more points?

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