Freezing Sphere Underwater


Rules Questions


Okay, this seems like the sort of thing that surely must have come up before, but I've searched around for it and have been unable to find anything. (Admittedly, I only searched here and in the Pathfinder rules; it's possible there was a ruling on it somewhere regarding 3.5E, but if so that wouldn't necessarily have been binding in Pathfinder anyway.)

So, I guess I'll ask here. What happens if you cast freezing sphere underwater?

The rules for freezing sphere say that if it "strikes a body of water or a liquid that is principally water (not including water-based creatures), it freezes the liquid to a depth of 6 inches in a 40-foot radius." But striking a body of water isn't the same thing as being cast underwater. Would it freeze the outer 6 inches of its spherical area of effect? Would it just freeze at the caster's fingertips the moment it was cast and thus be rendered useless? (That last possibility seems silly, and I hope it isn't the case, but it is a conceivable ruling given the spell's description.)

The rules for aquatic terrain say that "[s]ome spells might function differently underwater, subject to GM discretion." Freezing sphere seems logically like one of those spells that should definitely work differently underwater... I'm just not sure how it should work underwater.

Is there a ruling on this already somewhere that I missed? Like I said, it seems like the sort of thing that should have come up by now, so it seems unlikely I'm the first one to have asked this question, but I couldn't find anything...


There is no specific rule that I am aware of. It's going to vary by DM.

I had a PC who used to use iceball (cold variant of fireball) underwater quite often. I ruled that if you failed the save you were frozen in a block of ice that then floated to the surface. It was fun times.


Thad Remley wrote:
But striking a body of water isn't the same thing as being cast underwater.

Sure it is, it strikes the water as it comes into being at the caster's fingertip. Volume wise, 172 5'x5'x.5' slabs becomes a bit over 17 5"x5"x5" blocks, which is going to be more than enough to entomb a caster foolish enough to cast such a spell underwater.

Cold spells in general flash-freezing water is a reasonable conclusion that some posters try to discredit because of the delightful mayhem that can be caused.

A counter argument, for those who like rounding the corners off tables, is that as soon as most cold spells start freezing water, they start blocking their own Area of Effect by the ice they create.


We had our boreal sorcerer contemplate using detonate cold underwater a few weeks ago. It was decided to be a poor idea before it was implemented. Although the image of him casting it and then shooting up to the surface ice cube style was amusing it wasn't really combat viable.


I'm of the hits the water immediately upon being fired and thus centers on the caster side.


Hm... yeah, the more I think about it the more it seems likely given the spell description that freezing sphere would indeed freeze the water right at the caster's fingertips, and thus would be, um, a less than optimal choice.

For the record, I wasn't asking this because a player tried this in a game; it's actually for an adventure I'm writing... there's a sorcerer lich in the adventure who resides in the Elemental Plane of Water, and I'm trying to figure out his spell list. Given that he spends most of his time underwater and he's not an idiot, I think if freezing sphere just freezes the water at its point of origin, all things considered it would be better to leave it off his spell list. (Maybe I'll swap it out for summon monster vi; I was thinking maybe I ought to give him at least one high-level summoning spell anyway...)

Thanks for the replies.

[EDIT: Ooh, or actually, maybe I'll give him hellfire ray; he's lawful evil and consorts with devils, so it definitely fits his character. Of course, then I have to worry about how hellfire works underwater... maybe even if the water puts out the fire, it becomes superheated steam and so it still does fire damage? Then there's also the somewhat sticky fact that hellfire ray is described in a book that can't legally be referenced by name under the Compatibility License... meh, maybe I should stick with summon monster vi after all...]

[EDIT 2: Then again, acid fog may also be a good choice, given his bloodline... he has resist acid 10 and any spells he casts with the acid descriptor do +1 point of damage per die... would it be reasonable to assume that acid fog would work underwater (assuming there are no currents)?]


Thad Remley wrote:
Of course, then I have to worry about how hellfire works underwater... maybe even if the water puts out the fire, it becomes superheated steam and so it still does fire damage? Then there's also the somewhat sticky fact that hellfire ray is described in a book that can't legally be referenced by name under the Compatibility License... meh, maybe I should stick with summon monster vi after all...

From what I remember, Hellfire is not true fire and gets around a lot of immunities. My guess is that water is immune to fire, so if you use that logic, hellfire does only half damage while underwater. That is just my opinion though.


Helfire does 3/4 damage underwater. The fire half is reduced and the unholy half is unaffected. So under water, spell is 1/3 fire and 2/3 unholy.
Or so I see it.


Question... freezing sphere states creatures in water are trapped in ice requiring strength check, escape artist to get free. What condition does trapped relate to? I had a group of aboleths get caught in one and we questioned whether or not they could still cast spells until broken free. Thoughts?

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