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Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.
What feats etc does someone need to make it?
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral. Get thee to an armorer.
Same as Dwarven Plate and Mithral Shirt, they are simply nonmagical armor made with special materials and have no feat or spell prerequisites.
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.
Incorrect.
Elven chain costs 850 gp more than mithral chainmail (4,300 gp), and for good reason;
This extremely light chainmail is made of very fine mithral links. This armor is treated, in all ways, like light armor, including when determining proficiency. The armor has an arcane spell failure chance of 20%, a maximum Dexterity bonus of +4, and an armor check penalty of –2.
Emphasis mine.
Mithral alone does not do this.
But, yes, it is nonmagical and only requires Craft checks as opposed to item creation feats.
Nitpicking: actually 1000 gp more expensive, mithral includes masterwork, so it would be 4150 gp for the normal mithral chainmail :)
Ok, so craft check.
What would be the cost in sp?
Does that include the mitral?
The +1000 gp for light armor proficiency?
Or are those added later?
At full or 1/3 of price?
What's the DC to make that thing?
That's all somewhat important how long it takes to make and how expensive it is.
Unfortunately the craft skill is very silent about all those issues. (And yes, I know craft skill in general is a mess)
Nitpicking: actually 1000 gp more expensive, mithral includes masterwork, so it would be 4150 gp for the normal mithral chainmail :)
Fact.
That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.Incorrect.
You're right. Well, that's what one gets tries to beat the ninjas.
Unlike the other armors given in the Specific Armor section of the CRB or the SRD the Elven Chain doesn't have anything saying how it's created.
What feats etc does someone need to make it?
It's a secret only known to the most ancient of elven crafters.
There ancient because if you really apply the crafting rules: 51500sp/(DC 16 * 16)=up to 201 weeks to make one of these things.
To be honest I've never seen a definitive ruling on whether the special materials cost means longer craft times. Masterwork is treated as a separate item so I imagine special materials would be too.
If I am remembering my Craft rules correctly (it has been a long time since I've used them, so I may be wrong), I believe:
The DC of the armor itself is 16. The DC of the masterwork component is 20. Elven chain would be 50,000 sp at a DC of 16 and 1,500 sp at a DC of 20, mithral chainmail would be 40,000 sp at a DC of 16 and 1,500 at a DC of 20. 1/3 of these total prices must be paid to attempt to craft them. It will take an incredibly long time to make either even for a good craftsman.
And, yes, the Craft score in general is a mess. Luckily, there is hope.
You're right. Well, that's what one gets tries to beat the ninjas.That's because it is simply nonmagical chainmail made with mithral.Incorrect.
This thread made me realize that I've been paying 150 gp more for mithral armors than I've needed too for a long time.
Waht's 201 weeks for an elf? Remember they build those suits for millennia of use.
Yeah, that's why it takes an elf, everyone else dies of old age before they figure out the secrets.
I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(
Guess i'm stuck with a normal chainshirt for now.
I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(
Oh in that case, just add four years to your starting age--you're done. :-P
I guess there goes my plan of taking a few ranks in Craft (armor) buy a masterwork tool and try to convince my GM I made it myself before the game started :(Oh in that case, just add four years to your starting age--you're done. :-P
Session 1: "The party delves into the den where criminals have been unlawfully raising and fighting rust monsters for profit."
I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.
the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.
I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.
the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.
I actually agree with you there.
But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.
The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.
fabricate.
But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.
The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.
Get even more people?
Different craftings would have different levels of efficiency for multiple assistants--some jobs are more assembly-line in nature, so they'd divvy the work up efficiently among assistants, while some jobs don't really get much easier with more than one or two craftspeople. In the case of chainmail (arcane elven secrets aside), it would be very helpful to have a lot of people while forging the links and disparate pieces, but not as much when assembling the final product. Carving a wooden flute would likely not benefit at all from having more than one craftsman apart from advice or maybe "hold this steady while I bore a hole here". There's just no way to codify all that variation into rules without players and GMs tearing their hair out, so we instead have a single easy-to-remember rule.
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And, yes, the Craft score in general is a mess. Luckily, there is hope.
I find it much more reasonable to not count the value of the special materials when determining the crafting time. A suit of chainmail takes the same amount of time to make out of mithral or adamantine as it does out of steel.
I find it much more reasonable to not count the value of the special materials when determining the crafting time. A suit of chainmail takes the same amount of time to make out of mithral or adamantine as it does out of steel.
Nah, I disagree.
"The tricky thing about [strike]adamantium[/strike] adamantine is, that if you ever manage to process its raw, liquid form, you got to keep it that way, keep it hot. Because once the metal cools, it's indestructible. But you already know that."
; )
How to make Elven Chain?
It doesn't really work. They don't smelt into any dependable alloys. You're really better off making leather out of them instead.
The best part is if you have the right magic, you'll only ever need a single source of material!
I was going to say something like you have to finely grind your elf and add it to the metal, but Matthew Morris beat me to it. Bravo
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I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.
the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.
I actually agree with you there.
But it shows another problem I have with the craft skill. Having 2 people instead of 1 work on it, does not cut the time in half, but just gives you a +2 on your craftskill, which usually doesn't change the outcome very much.
The 201 weeks it takes get reduced to 179 weeks by the +2. Ok thats an improvement, but just about 10%.
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.
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Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.
Doing it that way comes with a +1 flaming sword and a glove of storing, though.
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.
No with that kind of assembly you have a guy overseeing the entire project and standards for ring width, size of the armor etc.
Take one elf.
Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.
Yay! Now druids can wear it.
Take one elf.
Cut into thin strips.
Let strips dry.
Bend strips into links.
Voila! Elven chain.Yay! Now druids can wear it.
Sweet!! I'm rolling up a druid! If my DM questions him wearing Elven Chain, I'll just point him to the Paizo Boards.
-Aaron
The other thing that factors in to the crafting rules, is you can only craft one item at a time. Crafting is an 8-hour a day process. If it takes you 201 weeks to craft something, at 8 hours a day, how are you affording to pay for family to eat? Your house? Your forge? Your coal? Your ingots?
When you stop and look at things in the crafting section, making anything masterwork or of a special material sums up to a once a decade kind of thing for most weapon/armor smiths.
It's just one of those things that I think is odd. If we were to strictly follow crafting rules, there really would be almost no magical items available because the weapon smiths simply don't have the time to forge those masterwork weapons.
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Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.
And the right foot still has nothing but the primer coat because it got dented and when my cousin fixed it he didn't bother to finish painting it.
Matthew Morris wrote:
rat_ bastard wrote:
Actually with the piecemeal armor rules you can have one team working on the breastplate, one team working on the arms and one team working on the legs. An entirely reasonable and realistic take on the problem.
The problem with that is if you divide the labor too much you get a red arm, a green arm, a blue leg and a yellow leg, which will go with the black breastplate/helmet.
I thought if it was made seperately that it has to be done by a witch?
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I don't know why people think its one guy making the elven chain. Its dozens of guys making links and two or three assembling the suit.
the idea of one person trying to make a suit of chain-mail without modern tools and conveniences is asinine.
I've seen it done by guys with a pair of shears, some wire, and a lot of spare time.