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Spell-trigger / wands and caster level.


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Apologies if this seems dumb, or had already been answered. I did look up the rules, but still slightly confused.

My question is: Do spell trigger items, wands, use the caster level of the item or the user? I ask because I have been told they use item level, usually the minimum caster level needed to cast the spell. However, to me wands seem to be a convenient way of not carrying a multitude of scrolls for spells that you will be casting frequently. You need the spell to make the item and you need the spell to cast the item, like a scroll.

So help me out, and have mercy on someone new to the game.


Wands and Scrolls use the CL of the item. Usually that's the minimum CL to cast the spell, but it can get increased up to the CL of the creator, at the time of crafting. But that increases the cost for the item.

Staffs (also spell-trigger) use the users CL and ability modifier though.

There is the Staff-Like Wand wizard Arcane Discover that allows you to do that, but needs level 11 in wizard.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Scrolls use the item's CL? Please refer me to the right section of the rules, because that's not what I'm seeing.


From the magic item section on scrolls:
"Determine Effect: A spell successfully activated from a scroll works exactly like a spell prepared and cast the normal way. Assume the scroll spell's caster level is always the minimum level required to cast the spell for the character who scribed the scroll, unless the scriber specifically desired otherwise."


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Lloyd Jackson wrote:
Scrolls use the item's CL? Please refer me to the right section of the rules, because that's not what I'm seeing.

Like the wand example above, there are specific abilities (e.g., the Scrollmaster wizard archetype's "Improved Scroll Casting" and the Pathfinder Savant's "Scroll Master") that allow the scroll's user to use their own caster level if it is higher.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Ok. Thank you. Now I need to tell the players we've been doing it wrong.

Thanks for the help guys.


Lloyd Jackson wrote:
Ok. Thank you. Now I need to tell the players we've been doing it wrong.

Have fun with that.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
blahpers wrote:
Lloyd Jackson wrote:
Scrolls use the item's CL? Please refer me to the right section of the rules, because that's not what I'm seeing.
Like the wand example above, there are specific abilities (e.g., the Scrollmaster wizard archetype's "Improved Scroll Casting" and the Pathfinder Savant's "Scroll Master") that allow the scroll's user to use their own caster level if it is higher.

But aside from those tricks, the only spell trigger item that uses the caster level if it's higher is the staff. Staves also make use of appropriate caster bonuses such as spell focus and spell penetration.

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