I have a high powered Centaur Paladin in a campaign I'm in. 35 point buy and currently level 3. I'm a 2 handed pally, Oath of Vengeance. I've planned out to level 11 but the 5th and 7th level feat I'm kind of stuck on.
Stats: (Level 3)
STR - 18 (19 at 8)
DEX - 12
CON - 17 (18 at 4)
INT - 10
WIS - 8
CHA - 18
Weapon of choice: Falchion.
Role in party: Damage dealer.
Other party members: Cleric, Ninja, (random, DMs choice)
Feat Progression:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Weapon Focus: (Falchion) <- offsets my -1 for being large.
5 - Setup Up? (Extra LOH?)
7 - Extra LOH? (Following Step?)
9 - Improved Critical (Falchion)
11- Critical Focus? (Step up and Strike?)
I'm wondering if the Step Up feat chain is worth it for a 2 handed fighter. I imagine it would have its benefits like striking fear into casters (Especially EVIL casters with smite evil).
What do you think?
Anyone?
you don't seem to have factored your racial modifiers into your stats as a large creature with only 18 str in a 35 point buy game is probably wrong. Don't take weapon focus, your -1 to hit should be offset buy your str bonus for your size. Do not dump your wisdom stat in a 35 point buy build, its not clever.
Consider using a scimitar insted of a flachion so you can go either 2h or shield, or drop the falchion and get a reach weapon as it will play off your already extended reach. Pick up combat expertise early on.
If you go reach weapon do not bother with the step up line, if you go scimitar it may be worth while but if your next to your target it cannot escape without withdrawing due to your reach. Extra LoH is a great feat for OoV paladin since its an extra smite, don't take it to many times, once is more than enough as at higher levels when you have loads of LoH available you will be saddened you took it at all..
Consider picking up eldritch heritage, there are a huge number of excellent bloodline abilities which compliment paladins as a whole and 2her builds are not particularly feat intensive anyway.
I personally would avoid the step up line and go the eldritch heritage line picking orc, so your 5th and 7th would be skill focus surv. and eldritch heritage - orc... I would also forgo imp crit and just get keen enchant or you could just take the weapon enhancement side of divine bond for the keen effect... Regardless this would free up your 9th level feat for somthing else, i would do crit focus... extra loh at 11th or w/e u like, imp eldritch at 13th, staggering crit at 15th, greater eldritch at 17th, stunning crit at 19th would round you out nicely... additionally if your dm is ok with letting u take quicken sla for touch of rage that might be better than stunning crit...
actually now that i think about it if your dm is ok with quicken sla i would take it at 15th and staggering crit or bleeding crit at 19th
unless u want to go down the crit tree.. then its a prereq and most the time taking your first round to cast a spell instead of smiting bad...
|
If you're trying to be an overpowered character, take the whole spirited charge line; yes mounted combat is technically a waste when you are not mounted yourself, but triple-damage lance ride-by charges are worth it.
(stats pre-racial)
Str: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 7 (your Cha will take care of any penalties)
Dex: 12
Con: 16
Chr: 18 (all bumps for oath pallies go here)
Then take your facials on. By 3 you can spirited charge with a large lance; and then get ride by, power attack. You'll be an unstoppable mass damage dealer.
Stats for Centaur are:
+2 STR, +2 CHA, -2 int.
So base stats were:
16 str
12 dex
17 con
12 int
8 wis
16 cha
Also what's SLA stand for?
Build your centaur to charge. Pick up Dragon Style (UC) and you will be unstoppable. On a side note, a centaur would be every AM barbarian's dream race lol
Charge, so vital strike and such?
From what I hear multiple attacks is amazing due to smite evil as well.
SLA stands for Spell Like Ability and it was talked about "and pretty errated" for the orc's touch of rage to work with it... With that said you could as a swift action recieve an uptyped bonus to hit/damage that caps at +10 @20th level for 1 rd and if you took the optimistic gambler trait it could be as many as 5 rds i believe... The charger route would certainly work well if you were offered the chance to charge alot and ur dm would aloow u to be considerd mounted for purposes of the feat "i myself would allow it". With that said you could easily drop crit focus and the critical feats i suggested in favor of spirited charge and ride-by attack and it would still work very well with the eldritch heritage - orc line... And yes vital strike would be fine for an extra feat if u had one and you were just going for ride-by attacks... i personally would opt for full attacks unless u had ample room to get out of retaliation space...
SLA stands for Spell Like Ability and it was talked about "and pretty errated" for the orc's touch of rage to work with it... With that said you could as a swift action recieve an uptyped bonus to hit/damage that caps at +10 @20th level for 1 rd and if you took the optimistic gambler trait it could be as many as 5 rds i believe... The charger route would certainly work well if you were offered the chance to charge alot and ur dm would aloow u to be considerd mounted for purposes of the feat "i myself would allow it". With that said you could easily drop crit focus and the critical feats i suggested in favor of spirited charge and ride-by attack and it would still work very well with the eldritch heritage - orc line... And yes vital strike would be fine for an extra feat if u had one and you were just going for ride-by attacks... i personally would opt for full attacks unless u had ample room to get out of retaliation space...
Good Advice! Sadly I don't count as mounted per DM but the eldritch feats with orc would be nice as I could get bonuses to str/hp (grow size) and the flat +6 from the level 9 ability.
Plus then I get darkvision for free at level 5. Not too bad at all.
The darkvision is part of the arcana, with EH you only get the bloodline powers not arcana, so no darkvision.SLA stands for Spell Like Ability and it was talked about "and pretty errated" for the orc's touch of rage to work with it... With that said you could as a swift action recieve an uptyped bonus to hit/damage that caps at +10 @20th level for 1 rd and if you took the optimistic gambler trait it could be as many as 5 rds i believe... The charger route would certainly work well if you were offered the chance to charge alot and ur dm would aloow u to be considerd mounted for purposes of the feat "i myself would allow it". With that said you could easily drop crit focus and the critical feats i suggested in favor of spirited charge and ride-by attack and it would still work very well with the eldritch heritage - orc line... And yes vital strike would be fine for an extra feat if u had one and you were just going for ride-by attacks... i personally would opt for full attacks unless u had ample room to get out of retaliation space...Good Advice! Sadly I don't count as mounted per DM but the eldritch feats with orc would be nice as I could get bonuses to str/hp (grow size) and the flat +6 from the level 9 ability.
Plus then I get darkvision for free at level 5. Not too bad at all.
Ah! Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Yea you wouldnt get darkvision, but u would get +6 to str, touch of rage "quickened hopefully!!", and giant form for another +8 to str... Thats a bummer about the mounted thing, so yea i would just be ass with a falchion or possibly falcata if u wanted to take ewp "which is btw worth it to me for 17/20 x3 weapon", and a huge str... If u dont like the crit focus stuff you could always opt for dazing assault and later stunning assault, both would work well while smiting and a huge str as u can afford to sac hit bonuses when ur swingin at over +40 lol
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Unless you're thinking about taking a bunch of Critical feats, you'd probably b e better off with a Greatsword than a Falchion...
Taking Oath of Vengeance is my preference for most Paladins and when I do that, I always try to work in Extra Lay on Hands feats where I can. Two more Swift self-heals OR an additional Smite is too much combat versatility to pass up.
Consider Cornugan Smash and definitely Dreadful Carnage.
I have a Human Paladin who is far and away the most potent character I've ever run and this is his build, in case you see anything you wish to glean:
Human Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Attributes
STR 16 (+2 Racial bonus, +1 at 4th, +1 at 8th, +2 at 11th, +2 at 15th, +2 at 17th)
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA (+1 at 12th, +1 at 16th, +1 at 20th)
Feats
1st - Power Attack
1st - Furious Focus
3rd - Extra Lay on Hands
5th - Extra Lay on Hands
7th - Skill Focus: Survival
9th - Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
11th - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
13th - Quicken SLA: Touch of Rage or Corugan Smash if Quicken SLA is not allowed
15th - Dreadful Carnage
17th - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
19th - Quicken SLA: Power of Giants or Stunning Assault if Quicken SLA is not allowed
Skills
Intimidate - 1/level
Survival - 1/level
Knowledge: Religion - 1/odd level
Diplomacy - 1/even level
Traits
Bully
Optimistic Gambler or Poverty Stricken if Optimistic Gambler is not allowed
The character carries both a falchion as well as a scimitar and shield for when he wants to tank a little. That's all the versatility I need. I dont' pre-plan equipment since we run in a low-magic campaign, but DO NOT neglect your spells... there's some real power to be found there.
Yea you wouldnt get darkvision, but u would get +6 to str, touch of rage "quickened hopefully!!", and giant form for another +8 to str... Thats a bummer about the mounted thing, so yea i would just be ass with a falchion or possibly falcata if u wanted to take ewp "which is btw worth it to me for 17/20 x3 weapon", and a huge str... If u dont like the crit focus stuff you could always opt for dazing assault and later stunning assault, both would work well while smiting and a huge str as u can afford to sac hit bonuses when ur swingin at over +40 lol
Hey WerePox47,
This this would be a decent progression:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Weapon Prof: Falcata
5 - ?
7 - Skill Focus: Survival
9 - Eldritch Heritage
11- Improved Eldritch Heritage
13 - ?
15 - ?
17 - Greater Eldritch Heritage
19 - ?
So 3 feats to work with. Can't do the Spirited Charge so... What other feats would be good for more damage with smite evil or power attack?
I see 4 feats open, so i would prob take somthing along the lines of what mercurial said.. level 5 i would take extra loh or furious focus, i personally never worry abt the minus form power attack, but if u plan on dazing/stunning assault it wouldnt be a bad choice... So with that in mind i would do 5th- furious focus, 13th quicken sla(touch of rage) if allowed/dazing assault if not, 15th- extra loh/dazing assault if quicken sla was allowed and taken at 13th, 19th- quicken sla power of gaints/stunning assault if quicken not allowed.. Btw im 99% sure that eh quicken sla was errated to work with these features, so as long as your dm follows raw he should allow it.. make sure to take optimistic gambler as a trait as it greatly enhances some of your abilities... and last have fun pullin 500dpr lol
In hindsight i would probably take stunning assault over quicken sla: power of giants at 19th even it was allowed, because the ability lasts for along time, so not as neccesary to quicken it and it would be very nice to stun stuff instead of just daze it...
In hindsight i would probably take stunning assault over quicken sla: power of giants at 19th even it was allowed, because the ability lasts for along time, so not as neccesary to quicken it and it would be very nice to stun stuff instead of just daze it...
Ok so talked to my GM and quicken SLA IS allowed! Yay.
I guess the main other question is: Would exotic prof: Falcata be worth a feat? With the x3 base crit and the damage modifiers from Smite evil... I can see doing TONS of damage with a Keen Falcata.
Thoughts?
In hindsight i would probably take stunning assault over quicken sla: power of giants at 19th even it was allowed, because the ability lasts for along time, so not as neccesary to quicken it and it would be very nice to stun stuff instead of just daze it...
For me that first round of combat is crucial and I don't want to spend a Standard Action growing to large size every time.
Another thing to consider with that final feat is the 'nuclear option' - Radiant Charge. It allows you to burn all your Lay on Hands to add 1d6/Lay on Hands to your damage on a charge. At 20th level (using my build as an example), that's as much as an additional 18d6 to add to your opening round smite when you REALLY need it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In hindsight i would probably take stunning assault over quicken sla: power of giants at 19th even it was allowed, because the ability lasts for along time, so not as neccesary to quicken it and it would be very nice to stun stuff instead of just daze it...Ok so talked to my GM and quicken SLA IS allowed! Yay.
I guess the main other question is: Would exotic prof: Falcata be worth a feat? With the x3 base crit and the damage modifiers from Smite evil... I can see doing TONS of damage with a Keen Falcata.
Thoughts?
LOL - he's going to regret that. Remember the bonus to attack makes Dazing or Stunning Assault particularly effective.
Something to keep in mind - the debate right now is not whether Quicken SLA is allowable, but whether or not it is allowable for use with Touch of rage and/or Power of Giants since they don't technically mimic existing spells. There are two ways to interpret that 'restriction' and I've been unable to get clarification as to which is proper.
Believe it or not, there's such a thing as doing too much damage. With Touch of Rage, Smite, all of your strength bonuses, etc. you might find a better use for that feat than an exotic weapon profeciency. In that vein, remember that while Paladins are superb damage dealers, you can do a LOT with them... from buffs from your auras and spells boosting the entire party's effectiveness to saving party wipes with the ability to remove conditions and absorb damage meant for others. Dreadful carnage even lets you significantly debuff all of your foes with your first kill.
And as I said above, do NOT neglect your spells. My suggestions by level:
1st - Hero's Defiance (will save your life), Divine Favor, Grace
2nd - Litany of Righteousness, Paladin's Sacrifice
3rd - Blessing of Fervor (kick-ass spell granted by Oath of Vengeance), Sanctify Armor
4th - Shield of the Dawnflower, Bloodsworn Retribution
Thanks for the Advice. How's this build:
Current Level: 3 (35 point buy)
STR 18 (+1 at 16 and 20, +2 at 11, +2 at 15, +2 at 17) = 26
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHA 17 (+1 at 4, 8, and 12) = 20
FEATS:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Furious Focus
5 - Extra Lay on Hands
7 - Skill Focus: Survival
9 - Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
11 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
13 - Quicken SLA - Touch of Rage
15 - ?
17 - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
19 - Quicken SLA - Power of Giants OR Stunning Assault.
How's that look? Not sure what to use at 15 so up for suggestions.
EDIT: Actually, 15th - Dreadful Carnage looks good. :)
Thanks for the Advice. How's this build:
Current Level: 3 (35 point buy)
STR 18 (+1 at 16 and 20, +2 at 11, +2 at 15, +2 at 17) = 26
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 11
WIS 10
CHA 17 (+1 at 4, 8, and 12) = 20FEATS:
1 - Power Attack
3 - Furious Focus
5 - Extra Lay on Hands
7 - Skill Focus: Survival
9 - Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
11 - Improved Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
13 - Quicken SLA - Touch of Rage
15 - ?
17 - Greater Eldritch Heritage (Orcish Bloodline)
19 - Quicken SLA - Power of Giants OR Stunning Assault.How's that look? Not sure what to use at 15 so up for suggestions.
I think it looks great, IF that's the character that you want to play. Optimizing is only good if you love the character you end up with.
For the 15th feat I'd reccomend Dreadful Carnage - its wickedly effective and all it requires to work is that you kill something. OR you might want to consider another Extra Lay on Hands... that's another Smite or two more swift action heals.
The key to effectiveness in Pathfinder is economy of action, and you want to be able to take advantage of every Swift/Immediate or free action you possibly can.
EDIT: Actually, 15th - Dreadful Carnage looks good. :)
Now here's the real question: How do you plan on dealing with the occaisional pit trap, or worse yet... ladders?
EDIT: Actually, 15th - Dreadful Carnage looks good. :)Now here's the real question: How do you plan on dealing with the occaisional pit trap, or worse yet... ladders?
For ladders... Hopefully its not more then 50 feet up and I can have my party members climb up, attach 2 ropes to me, and I'll shimmy my way up.
As for pit traps... Depending on the height, the cleric can use create water and fill the pit trap and I'll just swim out. :)
As for later, ring or horseshoes of levitate. Something to that effect.