Making Carrion Crown feels Gothic


Carrion Crown


I'm planning to DM CC in a few months, when we finish Kingmaker. I have read through the first two modules and have skimmed the rest, and I find it's a great AP to be played in a slightly more advanced era.

When I read it, I get the feel of Solomon Kane, Bram Stoker, Warhammer Fantasy Witch hunters, MtG Innistrad expansion and Van Helsing.

I want to focus on that feel. I think I'll let firearms (maybe not gunslinger pistoleros shooting revolvers, but allow Firearms to work for players as a secondary weapon to fire and forget -or fire and slowly reload-). Even if I don't (not sure yet, I don't like PF firearms rules that much, shouldn't be touch attack imho. Ignore 20 points of natural armor in a Dragon is too much, it´s a flintlock musket, not a laser gun), I want to make it feel at least more modern.

So I want them to get crossbows instead of bows, forget Plate armor and go for rapier-longsword-sabre instead of two handed swords and war-axes. The problem is you gimp several classes doing so.

I was thinking about giving Crossbows "Deadly shot" trait. That means they work like the gunslinger deed: you only make one shot, but roll to attack as much as you have in attacks, and roll the damage together.

What about armors? Maybe giving Aldori Swordmaster's technique to everyone, so the Fighters don't get shafted?

Grand Lodge

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Well Aldori Dueling only really helps 1 weapon Finesse fighters if you make it available to all.

For Gothic? Step it up to the early 1800's era.

Firearms are common (25% cost) but not yet advanced - let the players know that NPCs will have them. Make Heavy (not Medium) armours more expensive and rare. Firearms do not work well on Zombies/Skeletons or ghosties so thats Chapter 1. :)

Look at starting the PC's with NPC classes (gives access to healing spells to arcane casters)

Encourage the Alchemist (Crypt Breaker replaces Trapfinding need for a rogue), Inquisitor and Witch classes. A fighter or Gunslinger (I'd go with fighter) rounds out the group. A Bard is a pretty good addition too or a magus.

Maybe get ritual magic involved for the good spells.

Make magic strange and otherworldly (tell characters they'll face a negative circumstance modifier)- add in flavour text for that (heck, even have the players help with their own flavour text).

Have the NPCs be like the guys from Sleepy Hollow.

Bring in Science as a Theme (great for TotB)

Oh... and this

Spoiler:

All sorts of horrible monsters stalk the average fantasy world. Against many of these creatures, the common people have little defense. How do the common folk manage to stay alive when a single mob of shadows could lay waste to the average hamlet?

Adventurers are a big help but Adventurers aren’t supposed to be a dime a dozen. They can’t be everywhere all the time. What common means of defense against supernatural monsters exist?

Fire
With many supernatural or abnormal threats someone’s probably going to set some thing on fire in order to destroy it. Fire has a long history of use as a purifier. In the game, fire gets deployed a lot, especially against regenerating monsters and when taking out groups of foes conveniently clustered together in fireball formation. Other monsters, such as mummies, have well-known vulnerabilities to fire.

Some creatures have a lesser vulnerability to fire. Against fire-based attacks, these monsters suffer +1 point of damage per damage die. Fire-users need to take care, however. Not all lesser vulnerabilities to fire apply to mundane fire. In these cases, only magical fire causes extra damage.

Holy Symbols
What could be more iconic than the stalwart monster hunter holding a vampire at bay with a boldly presented crucifix? Anyone can present a holy symbol associated with their faith in an attempt to hold supernatural evil at bay. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity targeted against vulnerable creatures within a 30-foot spread who have both line of sight to the presenter and the holy symbol.

If the presenter has faith in the symbol/religion, the presenter makes a Will save which is opposed by the Will saves of the affected creatures. If an affected creature’s Will save is less than the presenter’s Will save, then the affected creature is dazed for 1 round. If the presenter scores a natural 20 on his Will save, all affected creatures within range are dazed for 1 round regardless of their respective Will saves. The presenter can attempt to hold supernatural evil at bay repeatedly.

One cannot attempt this mundane use of a holy symbol while using the channel energy class feature but those who possess the channel energy class feature add 1 to the roll for every D6 of energy they could manifest – which can be counted towards the generation of a ‘natural 20’ result.

Iron
Iron (and to a lesser extent, steel) also works quite well against incorporeal undead, as well as the Fey. Normal iron’s properties affect the fey and the incorporeal undead differently:

Normal iron and fey: Normal iron doesn’t bypass DR, but it does harm fey creatures. A normal iron or steel weapon enjoys a +50% bonus to damage rolls against fey. An iron implement (such as a horseshoe) that is held against a fey’s skin for one full round burns the fey creature for 1d6 points of damage. Even touching iron is generally enough to cause pain and possibly inflict a point or two of damage.

Normal iron and incorporeal undead: Normal iron weapons (including improvised weapons) cannot inflict damage on an incorporeal undead, but they can disrupt its form. Striking an incorporeal undead with an iron weapon forces the monster to make a DC 15 Will save. If it fails, the incorporeal undead is disrupted.

While disrupted, the incorporeal undead can only take a single move action each round. It becomes invisible and cannot be harmed by weapons of any type. Magic and channeling energy can still harm a disrupted incorporeal undead. Each round at the beginning of its turn, a disrupted incorporeal undead gets to make a DC 15 Will save as a free action. If it succeeds, it is no longer disrupted and may act normally. A disrupted incorporeal undead gets a +1 bonus on this Will save for each round that it has been disrupted.

Steel weapons may not have the full benefits that an iron weapon does.

Running Water
Some supernatural creatures cannot cross running water. They can’t even use bridges or fly over running water. This is one more reason why most communities are built near rivers or streams.
When confronted with running water, a supernatural creature with this vulnerability can attempt a DC 15 Will save. Success allows it to cross the running water, but the creature is treated as if staggered during the crossing. Failure means the monster simply cannot cross under its own power. It could, however, have a minion or vehicle carry it, but during the crossing the creature is treated as helpless. The monster is only ever allowed one saving throw to cross any particular body of running water.

Many magics can also be ended by running water… immersing the subject of a spell in running water or under heavy rain reduces the duration of a spell by 1 hour for every full round in the water.

Salt
Salt purifies and preserves. In some places during certain times in human history, salt has literally been worth its weight in gold. Without salt, food spoils more quickly and sickness and death await. Against certain supernatural creatures, salt has two uses. First, it can form an effective barrier, and salt can also cause damage.

Salt barrier: As a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a inch or more width of a line of salt can be poured across a single side of a 5-foot square. Creatures susceptible to salt cannot move across this line using any innate means. This includes all modes of movement as well as spell-like and supernatural abilities. The salt line does not prevent the creature from attacking across the line, however, so salt users had best move back to avoid reach.
Also, while the creature cannot directly affect the line of salt, it can use a variety of means to break the line’s integrity. A gust of wind can blow the salt away or water can wash it away. Thus, in many instances, a salt barrier provides only temporary security.

Contact with salt: Salt susceptible monsters who are exposed to salt’s touch for one full round suffer 1d6 points of damage from the contact of a handful of salt. The touch of a lesser amount is painful to such undead that can acknowledge pain.

Silver
Creatures without DR /silver that are vulnerable to silver suffer +2 points of damage from silver weapons (including improvised weapons like a silver candlestick holder). A silver item (such as a silver piece) that is held against a vul-nerable creature’s skin for one full round burns the creature for 1d6 points of damage. This applies to creatures with DR /silver as well as those that are just vulnerable to silver. Shape changers tend to be susceptible to silver.

Sunlight/Sunrise
The sun’s light chases away the darkness and the creatures that live in it. It is the most common defense against supernatural evil, even if one must survive for several hours before it can be put into play. In many folk tales and fantasy stories, all sorts of creatures can’t stand the light of day.

Several creatures already have sunlight vulnerability or light weakness. These game effects are well-defined. Long duration magics are generally greatly weakened or dispelled by sun rise and sun set (each sunrise/sunset is held as an additional 12 hour period), lessening durations accordingly and sometimes drastically. Summoned Creatures cannot last beyond this threshold of time and return to their place of origin.

Thresholds
Before inviting that handsome stranger into the house, make sure he’s not a vampire or some other sort of supernatural beast. Everyone knows that vampire’s (or similar foes) been invited, they can enter at will.

Creatures with a full threshold weakness cannot enter a building unless invited – a partial threshold weakness will greatly weaken the creature if it forces entry. It must be a resident who invites the creature, but not relevant if the invitation is gained via deceit or magic. Of course, this weakness doesn’t prevent the creature from setting the build-ing on fire or sending in minions. Spell casters or creatures that force entry lose a variable number of levels when entering uninvited to a dwelling, depending on the relative strength of the threshold while operating within the protected area – greatly weakening them and making them vulnerable – something that only the most desperate, angry or foolish creatures would risk.

Only personal dwellings are so protected – Inns, places of commerce or areas open to the public offer no protection. Religious sites will have a similar protection but one that is based on the faith of those within it.

Monsters susceptible to iron, salt, silver, and holy symbols can also be kept from entering a building if the appropri-ate item is affixed or poured near the various entrances. Hanging an iron horseshoe over the front door doesn’t just bring good luck. It also helps keep malicious fey out of the living room. One needs to take care that all potential entrances are so warded. The horseshoe over the front door might stop a goblin from entering through a window…. and a well stoked fire should keep them out of the Chimney.

Putting these Common Defenses into play
Since these are the commoner’s methods of defense against the supernatural, it stands to reason that the various methods are well-known. Knowledge of when these defenses are appropriate is generally a DC 10 or 15 check.

If the PCs suspect that they will be facing evil fey, then they may be well advised to stock up on iron weapons and to bring along a sack of iron nails and horsehoes to affix near building entrances. If its known that a monster sighted in the area is one that can also be held at bay by a boldly presented holy symbol, this can be critical to the groups safety , when in desperate situations, even the devout fighter can whip out a holy symbol and have a chance to daze the monster before it can gut the party’s wizard.


Thankyou for your effort :). The superstition bit is going to be very useful. I'm going to make *half* of those work, randomly.

XIX century is a little bit too high I think. I know it's where Frankestein, sleepy hollow and Dracula happen, but I was thinking more about Solomon Kane (which is late XVI/early XVII). Mainly becouse it's easier to stay with the rest of the core rules, and it does not pigeonhole people that much. For example, in early XVII-late XVI, you can have people with halberds and breastplates, longswords + bucklers, . You could still see a Gothic Plate Armor Knight here and there, before Muskets and Pikes made them obsolet Actually, it's the golden age of Samurai too: Miyamoto Mushashi lived in that era, and he was shot by an arquebois. You can even see shields (turkish cavalry had them, for example).

A XIX century game would not have even leather armor. Napoleon and George Washington soldiers weared cloth. That's a really major change to the rules (you would need to use some short of per level AC to keep up). I'm not really wanting a steampunk campaign.


My campaign is low-magic and high-gothic. I did not introduce firearms -- my characters did not seem interested in them, and I knew they wouldn't help much against many of the creatures they would face.

Since CC has the characters coming to Ustalav from distant lands, I gave them some choices (inspired by, but heavily modified from, the Golarion setting) which effectively let them choose what era they were from. Thus the sword-and-shield Fighter arrived from Irrisen, an isolated and superstitious land that still clung to medieval practices; whereas the Alchemist and Witch came from more "civilized" lands where technology had begun to replace magic (the Witch was a fugitive from an inquisition).

To keep the low-magic feel in place, I prohibited several base classes, including Wizard and Sorcerer. The Gothic feel didn't mesh well with polytheism and divine magic, so I even outlawed Clerics. These are extreme measures, and I wouldn't expect other GMs to go this far; but if your players are on board with the Gothic setting, they might be willing to compromise with you in some respects.

To compensate for a potentially huge power imbalance, I have made other changes, including legacy items, a more democratic healing system and the liberal distribution of hero points. So far, it's working well to maintain a sense of dread and menace in the game. The players sometimes grouse about the general lack of magic treasure, but nobody has threatened to leave the table yet [crossing fingers].


I won't outlaw clerics, but making them a monotheist god seems appropiate. Maybe 2-3 gods, or versions of the same god (like Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinists etc). I do feel religion is VERY important in this kind of setting, though. Inquisition and witch hunting make for a good atmosphere.

How far have you got into the adventure?

Dark Archive

Nicely done Helaman.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16

FWIW - Pharasma is de-facto monothesitic with the way that Carrion Crown in implemented. The times when you run into Desna-stuff (books 2&3), it feels like we're harkening back to the "backwood pagan ways" or something.

And Urgathoa makes a decent stand-in for Satan, what with the whole "give into temptation" thing. Far better than the PF Asmodeus, IMHO.

Grand Lodge

Erik Freund wrote:

FWIW - Pharasma is de-facto monothesitic with the way that Carrion Crown in implemented. The times when you run into Desna-stuff (books 2&3), it feels like we're harkening back to the "backwood pagan ways" or something.

And Urgathoa makes a decent stand-in for Satan, what with the whole "give into temptation" thing. Far better than the PF Asmodeus, IMHO.

I like this concept!


gustavo iglesias wrote:
I won't outlaw clerics, but making them a monotheist god seems appropiate. Maybe 2-3 gods, or versions of the same god (like Catholic, Lutheran, Calvinists etc). I do feel religion is VERY important in this kind of setting, though. Inquisition and witch hunting make for a good atmosphere.

I should clarify: I didn't outlaw religion, only divine magic. My setting does employ a monotheism (Pharasma) with many pagan gods and cults (Desna, Urgathoa, etc.). Some of the evil NPC clerics may get spells as a result of deals with devils.

If a player had really wanted to play a cleric (or oracle), I would have made her keep her spells a secret, just like the witch. But I discouraged those class choices because I thought it would reduce the sense of horror to have constant access to cure spells.

(Of course, both the witch and alchemist PCs chose cure spells as soon as they had access to them...so, yeah...)

gustavo iglesias wrote:
How far have you got into the adventure?

Mid-way through Broken Moon. The initial premise that "magic is mere superstition" has largely fallen by the way-side, but there is still a satisfying sense of Gothic mystery at the start of each chapter, as the PCs discover what their next nemesis will be, and role-play their ignorance, as in: "Werewolves? Do those really exist? I've only heard legends and whispers...how do we defeat them?"


How do your players survive without divine msgic? Healing spell are important, but *Restoration* spells are nearly a must-have in this AP. Half the enemies drain ability or levels.

Do you ban Lay on Hands and Smite Evil too? Do you need to change encounters?


My game is only starting to reach the point where ability drain is a threat. I'm not sure how I will address in the short term, but eventually I think the Order of the Palatine Eye will equip each PC with a medallion that can cast restoration 1/day.

No paladins. Nope nope nope. And yes, I'm making some changes to encounters, but you'd be surprised how many of them can play out as written, provided you change some colour text to make it less obvious what spells/magic items are being used.

Grand Lodge

Instead of that? Potions.

Once a day makes it no threat at all if everyone shares medallions.

You want to make it something that is a threat and feared. The potions can be readily available but only in civilisation and in the bigger churches. At the end of Book 3? You can use Heal as a divine boon to wipe the players slate clean too.

If you do want something? A wand of LESSER Restoration will handle Poison damage etc You can house rule a lesser restoration spell or wand charge reverses it for a single day. Alchemists can help with this as an infusion.

Its still a threat, still at the back of the characters mind but doesnt impact immediete game play


Sure, that makes sense. The party's alchemist will probably take Lesser Restoration etc., and he already has the Share Infusion discovery.

What happens at the end of Book 3 that would facilitate a Heal spell? I could see bundling it up with

Spoiler:
the Halo of Dreams

but I don't see a lot of opportunities for healing magic in

Spoiler:
Feldgrau.

Grand Lodge

Spoiler:
The same divine visitation that changes their eyes to gray and give them a bonus and visions of the future can also heal them

Grand Lodge

Note that it is harder and harder to maintain gothic after you get past level 7. 'Van Helsing' sorta pulled off high powered gothic.

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