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Arrows + spell storing enchant...


Rules Questions

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Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Nature warden will fix you up with that frying pan.


Tarantula wrote:

Sylvanite,

I was just letting you know what I think RAW would be on those rules. I think clear understanding of RAW is important, so that when games are created, if there are house rules, they can be laid out at the beginning so everyone is on the same page.

Honestly, I'm surprised you'd let the spearhead keep the magic. In a home game I was running, I would probably require a makewhole spell to restore the magic the longspear had, with a craft check to re-fashion the spearhead into a masterwork stabby thing.

I appreciate it. I do know that what I'm suggesting is not RAW, but it falls under the "rule of cool" idea that I try to keep to when I can without it being a real problem.

As for the spearhead, I almost never go after PC's equips (usually that elicits a response of "not cool!" from everyone), though every now and then it might happen. If that's the player's main weapon, and now they have to use it as an improvised weapon (a hefty -4 penalty and reduction in damage, mind you...after spending the action and eating the probable AoO to pick the spearhead up)...that's pretty much enough of a penalty for me. I don't think it violates much in the way of the spirit of the campaign to have the magic stay on the spearhead (where the magic was anyways, as the shaft of the spear wasn't flaming or whatnot).

I certainly wouldn't make an Archer get a brand new magic bow if someone cut his bowstring.

If someone wants to take the penalties (or pay the feat investment) to use improvised weapons, I'm willing to allow them to have magic on them. Not a huge deal to me.

And I still think it is absurd that only masterwork weapons can be enchanted....if I want to straight up enchant a baseball bat with a couple nails in it, because it's my favorite weapon and has served me well against the zombies I've encountered....well....why shouldn't I be able to pay a wizard to do that? Why wouldn't they be able to? How would you ever possibly explain that in game? But now I'm just stirring the masterwork +3 Vorpal Pot (which is also an intelligent weapon and HAS, in fact, called the kettle black).


Well, to me, I don't see why you can't craft a normal weapon into a masterwork later on with a craft check. I see it as fine-tuning the grip, balance, whatever to get it just right. Even if it only functions as a masterwork for yourself.

Cut bowstring? Its probably broken not destroyed. Even the "cut off" spearhead isn't really destroyed. To me, broken would be the haft broke and the spearhead is barely hanging on. Destroyed would be the spearhead is not a sharp pointy thing any longer. Crumpled in, cut in half, folded over on itself, something like that destroys a magical spearhead. So, in my games, you wouldn't end up with a spearhead cutoff from its half but still in-tact.


Well, considering the table that lists hardness and values that matter for sundering weapons makes it a point to show how a hafted weapon has less hardness, I always just imagined spears and such being sundered at the haft, and thus the pointy end (Stick 'em with the pointy end!) should still work unless they go after it specifically and overcome more hardness (though probably less HP). An interesting thought. If THAT happened...I doubt I'd let the intact haft have the flaming quality since it never had it.

I only bring it up since it's more cinematic (and kinda cool) to allow players to still attack with broken spear hafts, what's left on the hilt of a sword (think LotR intro....still sharp!), Darth Maul it with the opposite ends of a cut-in-half double weapon, etc.


And I'd say all those cool "broken" weapon attacks are allowed. While the weapon is broken. Once the weapon is destroyed, its completely non-functional.


blackbloodtroll wrote:

A nature warden could, in theory, enchant an improvised weapon.

Survivalist (Ex)

At 5th level, a nature warden suffers no penalty for using an improvised weapon or improvised tool. At 10th level, a warden can spend 1 minute examining and adjusting an improvised weapon or tool; thereafter she treats it as a masterwork weapon or tool.

Wov, those are terrible abilities. Is he giving up actual class abilities for that?


Rasmus Wagner wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:

A nature warden could, in theory, enchant an improvised weapon.

Survivalist (Ex)

At 5th level, a nature warden suffers no penalty for using an improvised weapon or improvised tool. At 10th level, a warden can spend 1 minute examining and adjusting an improvised weapon or tool; thereafter she treats it as a masterwork weapon or tool.

Wov, those are terrible abilities. Is he giving up actual class abilities for that?

Answering my own question...No, it's even worse. Those are Prestige Class levels. "Make your own masterwork tool" is a level 15 ability.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber

I'd let 'em make a masterwork frying pan weapon. Same masterwork cost as a weapon, and it does not give the bonus to Craft(Bacon) a normal masterwork frying pan might give. Enchant away. Just remember that it's still an improvised weapon even if you put vorpal on it.


You can't vorpal a bludgeoning weapon. Unless you're trying to tell me the masterwork frying pan is slashing?


Tarantula wrote:
You can't vorpal a bludgeoning weapon. Unless you're trying to tell me the masterwork frying pan is slashing?

You mean to tell me that you haven't sharpened the top ridge of all your frying pans and sauce pans? I...just wow....you probably haven't made shuriken coasters or weighted your throw pillows yet either, have you...

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sylvanite wrote:
This doesn't really answer my question. Can shields be enchanted as weapons? Because if they can, then it's an example of a non-masterwork weapon being enchanted as a weapon.

No they can't. A shield SPIKE can be enchanted as a weapon, but that's separate from the shield it's mounted on.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tarantula wrote:

Well, to me, I don't see why you can't craft a normal weapon into a masterwork later on with a craft check. I see it as fine-tuning the grip, balance, whatever to get it just right. Even if it only functions as a masterwork for yourself.

That's the thing... A masterwork item isn't just some crappy off the shelf item that's been given some touch up work. A masterwork item is a product of mastercraft from it's core to surface, from stem to stern, in other words, it was created from the get go as a perfected example of it's type.

It's the same reason that you can't make a Ford Pinto into a Rolls Royce no matter how much touchup you crank on it.

The only rules supported method to convert an ordinary item to masterwork is by the specific magic spell created to do just that.


LazarX wrote:
Sylvanite wrote:
This doesn't really answer my question. Can shields be enchanted as weapons? Because if they can, then it's an example of a non-masterwork weapon being enchanted as a weapon.
No they can't. A shield SPIKE can be enchanted as a weapon, but that's separate from the shield it's mounted on.

Sorry buddy, you're wrong.

"Shield Bash Attacks: You can bash an opponent with a heavy shield. See “shield, heavy” on Table: Weapons for the damage dealt by a shield bash. Used this way, a heavy shield is a martial bludgeoning weapon. For the purpose of penalties on attack rolls, treat a heavy shield as a one-handed weapon. If you use your shield as a weapon, you lose its AC bonus until your next turn. An enhancement bonus on a shield does not improve the effectiveness of a shield bash made with it, but the shield can be made into a magic weapon in its own right."

LazarX wrote:
It's the same reason that you can't make a Ford Pinto into a Rolls Royce no matter how much touchup you crank on it.

No, but you can replace every single part on that car (including the frame) until it is a rolls royce. It just doesn't make sense that a character can't have say, a sentimental something, and put in the effort (or pay someone to) make that into a masterwork quality weapon.


Pathfinder Modules Subscriber
Tarantula wrote:
LazarX wrote:
It's the same reason that you can't make a Ford Pinto into a Rolls Royce no matter how much touchup you crank on it.
No, but you can replace every single part on that car (including the frame) until it is a rolls royce. It just doesn't make sense that a character can't have say, a sentimental something, and put in the effort (or pay someone to) make that into a masterwork quality weapon.

Now you're in George Washington's Axe/The Ship of Theseus territory. Is it really still the same item if you replace all the parts?

I'd let it slide anyway, but you'd pay the full price for crafting the masterwork item from scratch, so it'd be little more than fluff.


blahpers, exactly. If the player payed the same amount, does it hurt to describe it as being "the same item"? I don't think so.


I wonder if my DM will allow me to make 50 arrows of spell storing that release the magic on impact? Each arrow being one time use, of course.

Qadira

I do love it when someone with a ton of titles after their name gets straight SHUT DOWN on forums when they walk up and start trying to lay down the law.
But to my point. An improvised weapon is a weapon right. A masterwork weapon is purely a finely crafted weapon. So why can’t you craft an improvised weapon to be of masterwork quality for combat. I would say if you made a ladder into masterwork to be used as a ranged tripping/bludgeoning weapon it would not also imply a +2 to climb checks since it has been built for combat.

I have not seen anything under the improvised weapon section stating specifically that they cannot be enchanted or cannot be made into masterwork combat weapons. I do not believe this to be outside the "spirit" of the game. Please let me give an example.

A soldier retires from years of service. But feels uncomfortable walking through town unarmed. He takes to sweeping the streets as he walks up and down on his way around town. The people of his village believe him a little odd but no one pays him much attention. But one day when someone attempts to rob a local merchant as the man passes by his sturdy push broom he forged himself out of the adamantine from his reforged spear he takes the assailant by surprise and trips him following up with a strike that no one was suspecting. Knocking the man unconscious in one swoop he is not revered as the "janitor" of his town.

A master craftsman can use his knowledge of weaponsmithing to reinforce and weaponize any item he sees purpose in. The old man’s cane, the young woman’s hair pin, the baker’s rolling pin, and yes even the cook’s frying pan.

While it would be an uncommon occurrence it is not too farfetched to understand and nowhere in the raw have I found it forbidden.

My first point is the most important one. An improvised weapon is a weapon that varies in damage dice, is not listed on the weapons table, crits on natural 20 only, and most importantly is a weapon when wielded as such.

Qadira

An after thought I unfortunately feel must be made. a masterwork frying pan meant for combat will have a cost of 301 gp. 300 for masterwork weapon and 1 for the price of a cauldron (the closest i could find for accurate price.) also a flaming adamantine cauldron will cost 11,001. 3000 for adamantine (includes the masterwork quality) and 8000 for +1 and flaming. if you think the "Firepan" as i like to call it is too powerful at a 1d6 with 20 only crit times 2 being made into a primary weapon is anything except for FULL OF FLAVOR then you really are just trolling.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There already is a ladder that can be enchanted as a weapon. It's called the battle ladder, and it's gnomish.


I support the enchanting of masterwork improvised weapons. However, like blahpers said, if you want it to give a bonus to frying up some bacon then you have to pay for that masterwork tool quality seperate from the masterwork weapon quality.

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