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Core+ Wizard Guide: An Expansion to Treantmonk's Guide


Advice

51 to 100 of 243 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

Enjoying this so far, as I'd been hoping to see a follow-up to Treant's guide with the options from the new books included for a while now. Props to you.

One comment so far, though, is that it would be helpful if you labeled everything with which book it comes from. You did for some of the spells, but not all of them, and not the feats, and such.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
puksone wrote:

so after your guide blast is better than save or die? totally not my opinion. rating save or die spells red just feels not right. maybe you dont like it but they are strong and shouldn't be red.

I'll make it orange.

They are a lot better than they used to be for sure.

My personal qualm with them though is the same as Treantmonk's.

You either do everything or nothing. You feel worthless or you make your team feel worthless. (Though this can be mitigated if you make lowering saves a team effort.)

Save or Suck spells with tactical effects tend to be more fun with less risk involved, hence the reason I would encourage the use of those instead.

I would even say that as powerful as a Dazing Fireball is, it's more fun, because even if every creature in that 20' radius succeeds their save, you at least did damage.

So I don't like them too cause it's very frustrating for the GM and the other Players. A boss battle can end in one round while it should be an absolute epic battle. The opposite can happen too....u do nothing.

nonetheless i think when u optimize in save or die spells they are extremly strong and get even stronger when your mates help u with Evil Eye, Reveal Weakness, Vision of Madness etc.


Cool guide, I am looking forward to your evaluation of the elemental wizards. Old fashioned I guess, but I like blasting even if it is not optimal.


yeti1069 wrote:

Enjoying this so far, as I'd been hoping to see a follow-up to Treant's guide with the options from the new books included for a while now. Props to you.

One comment so far, though, is that it would be helpful if you labeled everything with which book it comes from. You did for some of the spells, but not all of them, and not the feats, and such.

Yup. I started doing it going forward because of CalebTGorden's comment.

Once I finish the list I'll go back and finish labeling the ones I missed.

For now each spell is linked to its page in the OGC, so you can check the source there.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
yeti1069 wrote:

Enjoying this so far, as I'd been hoping to see a follow-up to Treant's guide with the options from the new books included for a while now. Props to you.

One comment so far, though, is that it would be helpful if you labeled everything with which book it comes from. You did for some of the spells, but not all of them, and not the feats, and such.

Yup. I started doing it going forward because of CalebTGorden's comment.

Once I finish the list I'll go back and finish labeling the ones I missed.

For now each spell is linked to its page in the OGC, so you can check the source there.

I noticed that the spells were linked after I had gotten about halfway through the lvl 2 spells. That's definitely very helpful.

Looking good so far. And I'm getting a laugh out of some of your comments.


Quote:
Monstrous Physique I: (UM) Better than Beast Shape in that you can still cast spells. The best effects are better duplicated by other spells though, and you should be getting Natural Armor amulets by now.

The bonus from an amulet of natural armor is an enhancement bonus to natural armor, and thus stacks with natural armor.


Coriat wrote:
Quote:
Monstrous Physique I: (UM) Better than Beast Shape in that you can still cast spells. The best effects are better duplicated by other spells though, and you should be getting Natural Armor amulets by now.
The bonus from an amulet of natural armor is an enhancement bonus to natural armor, and thus stacks with natural armor.

Thanks for the Clarification.

Still not totally sure it's worth it, but that might bump up my evaluation.

Sovereign Court

the majestic moose wrote:

The thing about Fast Study is that it frees you from ever having to prepare noncombat spells before you're sure you'll need them. (And forget about making scrolls of circumstantial spells. Use your time and money crafting wondrous items instead...everything in your spellbook is one minute away.)

I think pausing for 15 minutes in the middle of the day to prepare spells would start to bug people if it happened five or ten times a day, whereas 1 minute is no big deal. Since taking Fast Study I tend to leave around half my spell slots open in the morning. If you don't do much utility casting, or your days are pretty predictable, your mileage may vary.

(I could see people arguing that leaving a bunch of slots open is a good idea anyway, and it may be, but in practice I didn't use to do it before being disinhibited by Fast Study.)

^This! It might depend on your playgroup, but I know mine would get very tired of sitting around for 15 minutes while I prepare a utility spell. Taking the feat justifies what many might consider an abuse of the spell preparation system. Just shell out some gold to learn a ton of spells, and you become the most versatile character in the game.

IMO, the feat should be considered between orange and blue, depending on your playgroup.


TheSideKick wrote:

my one issue with this assesment is that you are only factoring in the stistics of it, not the certainty of knowing that you will succeed.

i would apply persistent spell on a auto success knowing that my opponent my still roll a nat 20. the odds in rolling 2 nat 20's in a row makes the spell worth while imo.

If your targets needed a natural 20 to succeed the saving throw, then Persistent Spell would bump the odds of them failing from 95% to 99.75%. Depending on how important it is for that spell to land, I agree that it would be worth bumping the spell level up by two.

The only point I was making with the chart is that you get more effect out of the feat (or similar effects) when you want it more: when your odds of success aren't nearly guaranteed. Of course, the other edge to the sword is that it helps you even less when your odds are already nearly hopeless.

One way of looking at this feat is that it increases the DCs of your spells by an average of about +3 in exchange for +2 spell levels (which is better than Heighten Spell). This analysis would be most applicable if enemy saving throws were completely random.

However, enemy saving throws aren't totally random; they scale with CR. So perhaps a better way of thinking of it is that the feat gives you about a +4 to your DCs in the large majority of cases that you'll actually come across.

Of course, we all already agree that Persistent Spell is an awesome feat, but it always helps to know exactly how much something is worth before you buy it. Besides, the analysis also applies to many other effects, such as Battlemind Link, Brilliant Inspiration, Stealth Synergy, etc.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Reynard_the_fox wrote:
the majestic moose wrote:

The thing about Fast Study is that it frees you from ever having to prepare noncombat spells before you're sure you'll need them. (And forget about making scrolls of circumstantial spells. Use your time and money crafting wondrous items instead...everything in your spellbook is one minute away.)

I think pausing for 15 minutes in the middle of the day to prepare spells would start to bug people if it happened five or ten times a day, whereas 1 minute is no big deal. Since taking Fast Study I tend to leave around half my spell slots open in the morning. If you don't do much utility casting, or your days are pretty predictable, your mileage may vary.

(I could see people arguing that leaving a bunch of slots open is a good idea anyway, and it may be, but in practice I didn't use to do it before being disinhibited by Fast Study.)

^This! It might depend on your playgroup, but I know mine would get very tired of sitting around for 15 minutes while I prepare a utility spell. Taking the feat justifies what many might consider an abuse of the spell preparation system. Just shell out some gold to learn a ton of spells, and you become the most versatile character in the game.

IMO, the feat should be considered between orange and blue, depending on your playgroup.

I've made it green, which I think fits.


Regarding the swift action dimensional door, I'm not sure if it follow normal rules of dimensional door (IE: no action after)


gustavo iglesias wrote:
Regarding the swift action dimensional door, I'm not sure if it follow normal rules of dimensional door (IE: no action after)

Hmm... sounds to me like you'd just need to take all your actions before you use it then.


Level 4 is done and most of level 5.

Only 91 more spells to go. Hopefully I can have the spell part of the guide done by tomorrow night.

Shadow Lodge

so far, i like it. when i have time to reread it i will post a few issues i had with a few spells ranking, but still great job, and thank you for taking the time to do this for all of us.


On toppling spell it is worth noting imo that it combos very well with the magical linage (magic missle) trait, especially at lower/mid levels.

APrreciate your effort.


TheSideKick wrote:
so far, i like it. when i have time to reread it i will post a few issues i had with a few spells ranking, but still great job, and thank you for taking the time to do this for all of us.

Ranking spells is a difficult thing, and by no means are my ratings set in stone.

I look forward to hearing your issues.


Erikkerik wrote:

On toppling spell it is worth noting imo that it combos very well with the magical linage (magic missle) trait, especially at lower/mid levels.

APrreciate your effort.

That reminds me, I should think about doing a traits section.

I've yet to play in a campaign that my DM uses them though, so I haven't really looked at them.


Nice start to an updated guide.

Error: In Stone call you mention using daze spell metamagic with it. Nothing beats an 80 ft radius daze effect that lasts 2 rounds. Pure awesome. However, since Stone Call does not have a save itself the daze effect is a Will save not a Fort. So it's a little better. Probably one of the better spells for a conjurer to use daze metamagic on.

Edit: You make the same mistake again in Defensive Shock.


Lab_Rat wrote:

Nice start to an updated guide.

Error: In Stone call you mention using daze spell metamagic with it. Nothing beats an 80 ft radius daze effect that lasts 2 rounds. Pure awesome. However, since Stone Call does not have a save itself the daze effect is a Will save not a Fort. So it's a little better. Probably one of the better spells for a conjurer to use daze metamagic on.

Edit: You make the same mistake again in Defensive Shock.

Huh... I must have had a different similar metamagic open when I was checking the reference and it stuck in my mind that it defaulted to fortitude.

Thanks for catching that.

I'll agree that a 40' radius spell that dazes for 2 rounds is awesome, and definitely better than a lot of the enchantment spells you can get at those levels.


Keep up the great work, I'm glad to see someone finally updating the guide.

One quick comment related to what some others have said here about the "Shift" power that comes with Teleportation/Conjuration Specialist Wizard. There's nothing in the powers description that changes the spells description in relation to the "No actions until your next turn" line. So as such, that feature of the spell remains. Still, it's a great ability, a heck of a lot more useful then Acid Dart over the lifetime of the campaign. Or at least, in the campaign I'm in currently, i find this to be true but my wizard is only level 5.


Sentack wrote:

Keep up the great work, I'm glad to see someone finally updating the guide.

One quick comment related to what some others have said here about the "Shift" power that comes with Teleportation/Conjuration Specialist Wizard. There's nothing in the powers description that changes the spells description in relation to the "No actions until your next turn" line. So as such, that feature of the spell remains. Still, it's a great ability, a heck of a lot more useful then Acid Dart over the lifetime of the campaign. Or at least, in the campaign I'm in currently, i find this to be true but my wizard is only level 5.

Thinking about it some more, I'd better mention this, since it would eliminate the benefits of using it to avoid grappling...


Create Pit is 10 foot by 10 foot, thats 4 squares, than the squares around that is sloped for a total of 16 squares?


Morris Chan wrote:
Create Pit is 10 foot by 10 foot, thats 4 squares, than the squares around that is sloped for a total of 16 squares?

That's what the rules seem to suggest.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
Thinking about it some more, I'd better mention this, since it would eliminate the benefits of using it to avoid grappling...

It's still a great way to get out of a grapple but not the best way, of course.

Over all, given how grappling monsters tend to have some rather nasty effects against creatures which they are grappling, the ability to Shift out of grapple is still rather beneficial. Wizards aren't well known for being the best at trying to Break Free from grapples.

Scarab Sages Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!


two more things:
immortality, I understand your colouring from an optimizing point, but if I get to lvl 20 I would ask myself "who wants to die?". If you go the route of being able to kill everything, just to wait till natural causes kill you, that's kind of sad.

staff-like wand:
did you think of wands with wizard spells? Fireball, magic missiles and things like that?
I would lean towards green, but it's your opinion, I just wanted to make sure you thought about other uses than a wizard casting cure spells.


Thanks for the awesome resource! :3


KaptainKrunch wrote:
I'll agree that a 40' radius spell that dazes for 2 rounds is awesome, and definitely better than a lot of the enchantment spells you can get at those levels.

The only down side is that at higher levels a lot of things will have DR that is good enough to ignore all the damage and the dazing effect only happens if you cause damage.


Richard Leonhart wrote:

two more things:

immortality, I understand your colouring from an optimizing point, but if I get to lvl 20 I would ask myself "who wants to die?". If you go the route of being able to kill everything, just to wait till natural causes kill you, that's kind of sad.

staff-like wand:
did you think of wands with wizard spells? Fireball, magic missiles and things like that?
I would lean towards green, but it's your opinion, I just wanted to make sure you thought about other uses than a wizard casting cure spells.

The Immortality wording is more of a joke than anything. It's so high level and so mechanically pointless that there's not really even any point to me rating it. I should probably change the wording though.

As far as Staff-Like Wand, it's mostly because a lot of the spells I'd like to use with it would start to get costly if you really took advantage of the benefits of the feat. I went ahead and clarified that, making it half-green half-orange for campaign dependency.


Modera wrote:
Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!

I'm glad people are liking it. It's costing me a good portion of my vacation :O

(Seriously though, doing this is good for me too. It's getting my itch to play a Wizard back on that I lost from losing some of my favorite SC spells in 3.5)


Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.


Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

I really appreciate this post, and I encourage more like it. That bumps the spell up substantially from what I thought was total garbage.

I'm glad you pointed this out.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

I really appreciate this post, and I encourage more like it. That bumps the spell up to green from what I thought was total garbage.

I'm glad you pointed this out.

You're very welcome. I want to point out that I didn't develop this combo. I read it in another thread (I think it came from one of RavingDork's blaster threads) but it stood out as missing from this guide.

Another good combo (my own but it may not be original) is Pathfinder Savant's "Esoteric Magic" to gain Ill Omen as a 2nd level spell to use with Spell Perfection and Quicken meta-magic. This is essentially a Persistent meta-magic effect (but better) for the cost of a 2nd level spell slot (which you have a lot of by 15th level). Pathfinder Savant costs you one caster level though which is painful but Esoteric Magic and Scroll Master are very powerful.


Cibulan wrote:
KaptainKrunch wrote:
Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

I really appreciate this post, and I encourage more like it. That bumps the spell up to green from what I thought was total garbage.

I'm glad you pointed this out.

You're very welcome. I want to point out that I didn't develop this combo. I read it in another thread (I think it came from one of RavingDork's blaster threads) but it stood out as missing from this guide.

Another good combo (my own but it may not be original) is Pathfinder Savant's "Esoteric Magic" to gain Ill Omen as a 2nd level spell to use with Spell Perfection and Quicken meta-magic. This is essentially a Persistent meta-magic effect (but better) for the cost of a 2nd level spell slot (which you have a lot of by 15th level). Pathfinder Savant costs you one caster level though which is painful but Esoteric Magic and Scroll Master are very powerful.

I'll have to keep that in mind if I ever do another guide including adventure paths and other Paizo sources.

(I may in the future, but it'll be at least a month after this guide is done.)

Dark Archive

Great guide. Some spell thoughts:

See Alignment: doesn't have the level floor of detect evil so it can detect even first level evil folk. Also useful when you have the neutral cleric of an evil god who shows up evil using detect evil. Which makes it situationally useful and possibly orange.

Break: A low level ambush crew all casting break on a higher level Wizards bonded item is not nice.

Create Pit series: Also prevents anyone in it from getting anything out of their handy haversack or bag of holding (you can't access an extra dimensional space inside an extra dimensional space). Amusing if circumstantial.

Spiked pit: Not an issue with the spell itself, but as you took Create Pit at level 2, you probably don't want another pit spell at level 3. Too many good conjuration choices at level 3 already.

Hungry pit: Note that to fly vertically out of a pit you need to make a DC 20 fly check (and it might be deeper than your fly speed), granted you aren't going to catch already flying creatures in the first place.

Wandering Star Motes: Its not mind affecting. It targets any creatures not just humanoids. It's an Enchantment type effect from an Illusion spell and Enchantment is probably an opposition school. It also makes them glow so it is an anti-invisibility spell.


ZomB wrote:

Great guide. Some spell thoughts:

See Alignment: doesn't have the level floor of detect evil so it can detect even first level evil folk. Also useful when you have the neutral cleric of an evil god who shows up evil using detect evil. Which makes it situationally useful and possibly orange.

That's interesting. I'll put that in the description, but I still don't like how you have to guess the exact alignment.

ZomB wrote:


Break: A low level ambush crew all casting break on a higher level Wizards bonded item is not nice.

Heh. That's more of a DM thing to do, but I'll add it.

ZomB wrote:


Create Pit series: Also prevents anyone in it from getting anything out of their handy haversack or bag of holding (you can't access an extra dimensional space inside an extra dimensional space). Amusing if circumstantial.

Spiked pit: Not an issue with the spell itself, but as you took Create Pit at level 2, you probably don't want another pit spell at level 3. Too many good conjuration choices at level 3 already.

True. At level 3 you're not only competing with Conjuration spells like Mad Monkeys, Summon Monster III, Sleet Storm, and even Aqueous Orb to some degree, you're also competing with Haste, Slow, and possibly some of the Evocation spells. For duplicity of purposes you might be right that casting the second level spell is a better choice.

Will mention the Handy Haversack thing giving you credit. Not sure if that'll ever come up, but it is amusing.

ZomB wrote:


Hungry pit: Note that to fly vertically out of a pit you need to make a DC 20 fly check (and it might be deeper than your fly speed), granted you aren't going to catch already flying creatures in the first place.

Hmm... Maybe casting Sirocco over Hungry Pit would be a good combo then. Too bad Sirocco only has a DC15 fly check :P

I don't see in the spell where it says this though, could you clarify where it's coming from?

ZomB wrote:


Wandering Star Motes: Its not mind affecting. It targets any creatures not just humanoids. It's an Enchantment type effect from an Illusion spell and Enchantment is probably an opposition school. It also makes them glow so it is an anti-invisibility spell.

Interesting thought.

Looked the spell up again to confirm though and it does say it's mind-effecting. As an invisibility detector though, that bumps it up a notch.


another nice little trick:
Superior Summoning + eldritch heritage abyssal bloodline, get 3 demons or fiendish creatures of your max spell level out for the price of one.
Your friendly group paladin might want a word with you, but you can always charm him.
It needs a few feats and 15 charisma, but the tradeoff seems worth it.


Richard Leonhart wrote:

another nice little trick:

Superior Summoning + eldritch heritage abyssal bloodline, get 3 demons or fiendish creatures of your max spell level out for the price of one.
Your friendly group paladin might want a word with you, but you can always charm him.
It needs a few feats and 15 charisma, but the tradeoff seems worth it.

Heh, that's an AMAZING trick. I should probably go into the Eldrich Heritage line.

I'll grab that after I finish the Elemental Schools.

Also, since I haven't really looked at Traits in my life, what are some good traits for me to look at for a Wizard?
(this is to everyone looking at this thread.)


Generally the magic traits are best (no surprise there). Particularly magical lineage, one of the only metamagic reducers in PF. There's also Magical Knack, good for any wizard who loses caster levels for one reason or another. Gifted Adept for +1 caster level on one spell (very situational, I'd usually pick Magical Lineage for focusing on a particular spell).

There are also the traits that give +2 to concentration, if you're making a lot of concentration checks (but really, you shouldn't be as a wizard)

For your other, non-Magic trait, there are a number of options. There's Reactionary for +2 initiative, very useful.

There's the various saving throw boosters giving +1 to a particular save - note that for Will saves Latent Psion may be superior to Indomitable Faith, since it gives +2 against mind-affecting spells rather than +1 for all will saves - and most of the nasty will-targeting effects are mind-affecting.

Finally, traits are nice for picking up another class skill, like Perception or UMD or something. They usually give +1 trait bonus on top of that, so it's a net +4 to a skill, which is not too bad value for a trait.

Shadow Lodge

ok i found a few spells that are ,imo, a little miss ranked.

cloak of winds: green
this spell is important to stop ranged characters from obliterating your mage. it is only slightly weaker then wind wall, but wind wall can be countered by flying cratures.

force punch: BLUE
a dagger with spell storing, returning, and ghost touch can can be thrown at targets to blast them half way across the battel field into pits, snares, black tenticles, and any other movement hindering spells, prismatic sphere/wall anyone?

it is also a force effect so it has 100% effectiveness against ghosts, wraths, ect... i use this alot since the spell was released, and it has won me so many battles when used properly.


Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

wow nice combo. why is it level 6 ? snap dragon is lvl 1 + 3 for dazing + 2 heighten....so it uses a level 6 spell slot, but is like a level 3 spell. So it would daze for 3 rounds?

is the daze effect mind-affecting?

thx

really great guide so far.

Shadow Lodge

puksone wrote:


wow nice combo. why is it level 6 ? snap dragon is lvl 1 + 3 for dazing + 2 heighten....so it uses a level 6 spell slot, but is like a level 3 spell. So it would daze for 3 rounds?

is the daze effect mind-affecting?

thx

really great guide so far.

yes, but magical lineage will add -1 spell level so you could get up to 4 as a 6th level spell.


Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

Please Note that this combo is awesome in the lower levels but at high levels Fire resistance gets more common. Unless you change the energy type to something other than fire a large chunk of monsters will be completely immune to this trick. Dazing spell metamagic requires the opponent to take damage in order to apply the dazing condition to the spell. No damage = no dazing.

Scarab Sages Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KaptainKrunch wrote:
Modera wrote:
Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!

I'm glad people are liking it. It's costing me a good portion of my vacation :O

(Seriously though, doing this is good for me too. It's getting my itch to play a Wizard back on that I lost from losing some of my favorite SC spells in 3.5)

Yeah, I'm usually the DM, however I've been able to join a Second Darkness game as a Wizard. Thematically I knew what I wanted to do, however I have no idea which to choose. The updated guide (along with the original) has been a great resource.

I don't know if it was covered and I missed it though; is there any thoughts to looking at Wizard prestige classes? Or is that less optimal?

Edit: Realized Treantmonk went through a bunch of them already.

So to revise my question, even though Wizards don't get new spells/level in their spell book, are prestige classes worth it and are there plans to look at any prestige classes not covered last time?


TheSideKick wrote:

ok i found a few spells that are ,imo, a little miss ranked.

cloak of winds: green
this spell is important to stop ranged characters from obliterating your mage. it is only slightly weaker then wind wall, but wind wall can be countered by flying cratures.

force punch: BLUE
a dagger with spell storing, returning, and ghost touch can can be thrown at targets to blast them half way across the battel field into pits, snares, black tenticles, and any other movement hindering spells, prismatic sphere/wall anyone?

it is also a force effect so it has 100% effectiveness against ghosts, wraths, ect... i use this alot since the spell was released, and it has won me so many battles when used properly.

If Cloak of Winds completely blocked arrows, I'd agree. But if your problem is only arrows, then Shield offers the same exact defense for your standard action. Or Bullet Shield gives you up to a +8 as you level up. Wind Wall potentially protects your whole party (Except against fliers as you mention.)

Cloak of winds would be a superior standard action and worth its level compared to the lower level spells I mentioned if you're being both attacked by small creatures and shot by arrows, or small creatures + a fog spell, but I personally have never run into a situation where I've had to deal with that combination of problems, hence Orange.

Force Punch is a good spell, but are we sure we're talking about the same spell? Being an instantaneous duration, I'm not sure it can be considered returning, spell storing, or a wall like you say. It is nice that it's 100% effective against ghosts though, but that alone I don't think makes it better than the green rating I gave it.


Modera wrote:
KaptainKrunch wrote:
Modera wrote:
Really appreciate this KaptainKrunch!

I'm glad people are liking it. It's costing me a good portion of my vacation :O

(Seriously though, doing this is good for me too. It's getting my itch to play a Wizard back on that I lost from losing some of my favorite SC spells in 3.5)

Yeah, I'm usually the DM, however I've been able to join a Second Darkness game as a Wizard. Thematically I knew what I wanted to do, however I have no idea which to choose. The updated guide (along with the original) has been a great resource.

I don't know if it was covered and I missed it though; is there any thoughts to looking at Wizard prestige classes? Or is that less optimal?

Edit: Realized Treantmonk went through a bunch of them already.

So to revise my question, even though Wizards don't get new spells/level in their spell book, are prestige classes worth it and are there plans to look at any prestige classes not covered last time?

I tend to think that prestige classes are weaker in Pathfinder. But I'll glance at them once I'm done with the Elemental Schools, Traits, and mentioning a few gimmicks with Eldrich Heritage (Probably just the one suggested, since generally because of the Charisma requirement Eldrich Heritage is a bad deal.)


puksone wrote:
Cibulan wrote:

Cool guide but you've missed one of the best post-CRB combos:

Snapdragon Fireworks + Dazing Spell + Heighten Spell = Once per round you can pretty much lock down one opponent.

For example, at level 11 (my current level in the game I play in), I can prepare this as a 6th level spell. For 11 rounds I can lob a firework with a maxed out save DC. If they fail (which they almost always do since you're targeting Ref), they're dazed for 6 rounds (thanks to heighten spell). After your first round, you can use your standard for a new spell, your move for a firework, and your swift to move (teleportation school).

Snapdragon plus dazing spell is one of the most cost effective god combos since it last so long.

wow nice combo. why is it level 6 ? snap dragon is lvl 1 + 3 for dazing + 2 heighten....so it uses a level 6 spell slot, but is like a level 3 spell. So it would daze for 3 rounds?

is the daze effect mind-affecting?

thx

really great guide so far.

Probably a 3rd level spell, but 3 turns of dazing is a long time as well.

The feat says nothing about the spell being Mind-Effecting, and thus I can only conclude that it's only mind-effecting if the spell it's modifying is mind-effecting.


Lab_Rat wrote:


Please Note that this combo is awesome in the lower levels but at high levels Fire resistance gets more common. Unless you change the energy type to something other than fire a large chunk of monsters will be completely immune to this trick. Dazing spell metamagic requires the opponent to take damage in order to apply the dazing condition to the spell. No damage = no dazing.

This is true, and it does make Admixture more attractive. However even without admixture you can grab an elemental Rod, or make Snap-Dragon fireworks your preferred spell and have the Elemental Spell feat.

You're going to have trouble against constructs still, but that's the wiles of having one-trick. Luckily you're still a Wizard and have a pocket full of other options.


KaptainKrunch wrote:
Richard Leonhart wrote:

another nice little trick:

Superior Summoning + eldritch heritage abyssal bloodline, get 3 demons or fiendish creatures of your max spell level out for the price of one.
Your friendly group paladin might want a word with you, but you can always charm him.
It needs a few feats and 15 charisma, but the tradeoff seems worth it.

Heh, that's an AMAZING trick. I should probably go into the Eldrich Heritage line.

I'll grab that after I finish the Elemental Schools.

Also, since I haven't really looked at Traits in my life, what are some good traits for me to look at for a Wizard?
(this is to everyone looking at this thread.)

I took a peak at Eldrich Heritage, and it requires level 17 and 17 Charisma to pull it off :P

I'm starting to wonder if five-feats and a crap ton of stat points later that this trick is too expensive to pull off when a Sorcerer can do it with just one feat.


You might want to check this topic if you are going to rate spells taking combo into account. I think it would be best to rate them being cast alone and make a chapter on spell combo, there is quite a few of them.

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