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PaizoCon 2014!

Four Horsemen as Cleric Deities?


Pathfinder Campaign Setting General Discussion


Hey everyone.

My question(s) of the day is(/are) quite simple:

1. Can a Cleric (or any divine caster) worship the Four Horsemen (all at once or one specifically)?

2. If so, where can I find their portfolio(s)?

I couldn't find anything in the World Guide or Gods & Magic.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Book of the Damned vol. 3, which is all about daemons, inside back cover.
Apollyon NE pestilence Air, Darkness, Destruction, Evil scythe
Charon NE death Death, Evil, Knowledge, Water quarterstaff
Szuriel NE war Evil, Fire, Strength, War greatsword
Trelmarixian NE famine Earth, Evil, Madness, Weather spiked gauntlet

Clerics have to stick with one, oracles can worship all four: "Daemon-touched oracles frequently comprise oracles of Battle, Bones, Flame, Stone, Waves, and Wind, but never Life or Nature—such connections to living beings are despised by daemonkind."

Also, page 234 of the Inner Sea World Guide, right there under "Horsemen."


Thanks. Wow. I shoulve looked closer I guess. I might getthe Books of the Damned anyway.

I was considering making an NPC party for my campaign each representing one of them, all 4 represented by a class that gets a mount (like cavalier, antipaladin, druid etc.)

Of course the books put an unnecessary hurdle in my way, Anti-Paladins who would make an excellent representation of Death don't get an actual mount, like Paladins and BLight Druid who would be perfect for pestilence get familiars instead of Animal companions.


Go grave knight and give him a powerful undead minion horse, give him leadership and a monster minion or just give him an animal companion horse he's an NPC it doesn't matter.


Treeshades, please let us know how they turn out! Post them so that they can scour the world!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

When I was writing notes for an epic game once, I had an NPC party of horsemen.

War was a heavily armored warrior riding an enormous hound
Pestilence was a desiccated rogue riding on a giant vermiurge (think giant scorpion surrounded by a cloud of insects)
Famine was a bloated wizard carried forth by a thing made of mouths and teeth (I think it was a pseudonatural dinosaur of some kind)
And Death, of course, was a cleric who rode a spectral horse.

Were I to give them classes with a mount/animal companion -

War would be an Anti-Paladin
Pestilence would be a Druid (Blight Druid archetype)
Famine would be a Summoner
Death would be an Oracle (Bones Mystery) with some sort of commanded undead mount. Cheating, I know, but there's nothing more suitable.


You could make Death a Undead Lord Cleric with it's corpse companion being something suitable for riding.


Drejk wrote:
You could make Death a Undead Lord Cleric with it's corpse companion being something suitable for riding.

Perfect.

That leaves only Famine and Pestilence.

For War I think a mounted fury barbarian.

A Summoner with a horse-like eidolon could also fill a slot. i'd have to see what I could make of that.

Thanis Kartaleon wrote:

When I was writing notes for an epic game once, I had an NPC party of horsemen.

War was a heavily armored warrior riding an enormous hound
Pestilence was a desiccated rogue riding on a giant vermiurge (think giant scorpion surrounded by a cloud of insects)
Famine was a bloated wizard carried forth by a thing made of mouths and teeth (I think it was a pseudonatural dinosaur of some kind)
And Death, of course, was a cleric who rode a spectral horse.

Were I to give them classes with a mount/animal companion -

War would be an Anti-Paladin
Pestilence would be a Druid (Blight Druid archetype)
Famine would be a Summoner
Death would be an Oracle (Bones Mystery) with some sort of commanded undead mount. Cheating, I know, but there's nothing more suitable.

As I stated earlier, Antipaladins and Blight Druids don't get companions like the base class. I guess the Antipaladin can use his summoned minion as an infernal horse or something along those lines, but a blight druid only gets a wizard familiar. Those can't be mounted unless you're really small.


For Famine I think I will go with a summoner with a large quadrupedal eidolon with hooves, trample, grab, swallow and an acid breath attack (it would be hurling stomach acid)


Threeshades wrote:
For Famine I think I will go with a summoner with a large quadrupedal eidolon with hooves, trample, grab, swallow and an acid breath attack (it would be hurling stomach acid)

Good idea. I thought about starvation-related Eidolon but completely forgot it can get Swallow.

If they will be high enough level I would suggest making it's mount Huge with additional reach... And now I am envisioning Famine riding a huge obesse toad-like monstrosity.


I'd rather have it be a regular sized unnatural looking, gaunt horse.

I was thinking the summoner himself will use debuff spells mainly (what little he has)

That still leaves Pestilence.

Andoran

Threeshades wrote:
That still leaves Pestilence.

My first thought: Wererat Urban Ranger with Boon Companion. A large, grey, diseased looking horse ridden by a plague-rat archer sounds pretty cool to me...


And we have precedent for disease-spreading archers - Leukodaemon is archery-oriented fiend. Sigh, when my party will be level high enough to encounter one or two of those...


Threeshades wrote:


As I stated earlier, Antipaladins and Blight Druids don't get companions like the base class. I guess the Antipaladin can use his summoned minion as an infernal horse or something along those lines, but a blight druid only gets a wizard familiar. Those can't be mounted unless you're really small.

Just give any character Leadership, and allow their cohort to be a Nightmare or an Unfettered Eidolon or anything else you want to think up to get the look you want.


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
That still leaves Pestilence.
My first thought: Wererat Urban Ranger with Boon Companion. A large, grey, diseased looking horse ridden by a plague-rat archer sounds pretty cool to me...

Why Urban of asll things, what makes that so pestilence-y?

Andoran

Threeshades wrote:
Why Urban of asll things, what makes that so pestilence-y?

Wererats are a very urban folk, and rats are classically very much associated with disease.

Also, an Urban Ranger is a lot more likely to live in a poverty and disease-ridden slum than a more typical Ranger.

Think black plague kinda stuff.


Good point. A sprawling city is probably the most likely place for a plague to start.

I'm still disappointed that the Blight Druid doesn't get an animal companion. It would be so perfect otherwise.

Isn't there by any chance a way to use improved familiar to get something like a horse?

(I remmeber at sufficiently high level in 3.5 you could even get a hyppogriff as a familiar)

by the way why I don't just house-rule: I like to work with what the rules provide and only use house-rules to fix unbalances if possible. I would want these four NPCs to be consistent and completely based in Paizo official rules.

Maybe an Oracle with the Wasting curse and Nature Mystery. That would give him some Disease and Sickness resistance and a mount. As well as some bonus spells that are quite pestilency.


I worked out the stats for Pestilence and Death today. Hopefully i can get the ther two done tomorrow. Will post them when they are all finished.

What I can say now, is that they will be a high risk / high reward encounter as they are 20 point buy based with all the perks a PC gets (including full HP at first level and the full PC wealth of their level; which is 12 by the way)


Threeshades, the feat Leadership will solve a lot of your problems and has been mentioned twice in this thread.

Also mentioned was the Graveknight which is a very powerful foe and fits both Death and War in terms of which rider it could be. An Undead Lord Graveknight would be terrifying, and should be the Death Rider as Charon is reported to be the most powerful of the Horsemen. The Undead Lord Graveknight could channel to heal undead, and heal himself at the same time. This is a terrifying thought as an 8th level Undead Lord Graveknight could control up 80 HD worth of Undead at a time.


I didn't want to use templates and i wanted the mounts to be part of the class. Well I achieved what I wanted by now.

Also the Death I built can channel to heal himself while healing undead around without being a grave knight. She uses the necromantic affinity feat.

Though on second thought, I may actually go back to the blight druid with Leadership for Pestilence.


Okay im trying to build a blight druid with Charisma 12 and Leadership and give him a plague zombie horse that is advanced to CR 9 (which is the druid's maximum cohort level).

Might I remark it's really damn difficult.

Scratch that, I forgot the shambling rule that zombies have.

EDIT:
I did something wrong, didn't I? The Cohort level does not equal their CR, does it?


Make them fast zombies and they don't have the shambling rule anymore.


Tels wrote:
Make them fast zombies and they don't have the shambling rule anymore.

It would also take the disease abilities away which i chose the template for so i might as well make it a regular horse. though i first need to figure out what CR the horse is allowed to be.


You can make it a fast, plague zombie. You can apply more than one template to the zombie you know.


Tels wrote:
You can make it a fast, plague zombie. You can apply more than one template to the zombie you know.

Thing is plague and fast zombie are variations of the same template. They take a few changes away from the base template to add other ones. Both of them for example take the DR away, this is not accounted for in CR. This is not the same thing as just adding two templates.


But there is nothing in the 'rules' that stops you from having a fast, plague zombie. I treat them as Zombie being the template, and the variances being somewhat similar to archetypes. As far as I know, you can have both variances on one creature.


Tels wrote:
But there is nothing in the 'rules' that stops you from having a fast, plague zombie. I treat them as Zombie being the template, and the variances being somewhat similar to archetypes. As far as I know, you can have both variances on one creature.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. And I don't want to house-rule anything. I want to create these four riders completely within the rules of the game without making anything up. That's half of the fun and part of the point of this exercise.

That's why I'm not simply house-ruling the blight druid to have an animal companion.


As a little update. I ordered the Horsemen of the Apocalypse book (together with dragon empires primer and distant worlds, which I need for other things)

I still havent figured out how to make a properly levelled horse cohort (and how templates modify this) so I'm still stuck with pestilence.

I got it! A thread on GitP got me this idea: Instead of Leadership I will get Pestilence the Eldritch Heritage feat and choose Slyvan Wildblooded Bloodline. That will get me an animal companion at my character level -5 with Boon companion I will reduce it to -1. Done and done. It also takes skill focus (knowledge (nature)) but that suits me just fine.

Andoran

Threeshades wrote:
I got it! A thread on GitP got me this idea: Instead of Leadership I will get Pestilence the Eldritch Heritage feat and choose Slyvan Wildblooded Bloodline. That will get me an animal companion at my character level -5 with Boon companion I will reduce it to -1. Done and done. It also takes skill focus (knowledge (nature)) but that suits me just fine.

That particular power is also their Bloodline Arcana and thus, sadly, not available with eldritch Heritage, I don't think.

Contributor

Threeshades wrote:
As a little update. I ordered the Horsemen of the Apocalypse book

I hope that you like it, and lemme know what you think once you get a chance to look it over. :)


Deadmanwalking wrote:
Threeshades wrote:
I got it! A thread on GitP got me this idea: Instead of Leadership I will get Pestilence the Eldritch Heritage feat and choose Slyvan Wildblooded Bloodline. That will get me an animal companion at my character level -5 with Boon companion I will reduce it to -1. Done and done. It also takes skill focus (knowledge (nature)) but that suits me just fine.
That particular power is also their Bloodline Arcana and thus, sadly, not available with eldritch Heritage, I don't think.

You almost gave me a heart attack. Yeah it is also their arcana but it is a bloodline power and i dont see anything prohibiting its use with eldritch heritage. (also no FaQ in the SRD). Now stop it, I dont want to rewrite this character again.

Andoran

Threeshades wrote:
You almost gave me a heart attack. Yeah it is also their arcana but it is a bloodline power and i dont see anything prohibiting its use with eldritch heritage. (also no FaQ in the SRD). Now stop it, I dont want to rewrite this character again.

:)

It's definitely debatable. I almost certainly wouldn't allow it on a PC, but an NPC is a very different beast.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Threeshades wrote:
Tels wrote:
But there is nothing in the 'rules' that stops you from having a fast, plague zombie. I treat them as Zombie being the template, and the variances being somewhat similar to archetypes. As far as I know, you can have both variances on one creature.

I'm pretty sure that's not how it works. And I don't want to house-rule anything. I want to create these four riders completely within the rules of the game without making anything up. That's half of the fun and part of the point of this exercise.

That's why I'm not simply house-ruling the blight druid to have an animal companion.

Fast plague brain-eating zombies canonically exist on Golarion, see the ISWG. There's a contained apocalypse zombie infestation in Isger.


War is done now. Only Famine left. When I look at these I get the feeling they will be too much for the players I intend to send them against.
They are level 13, 20 point-buy, with full 1st level HD, and gear worth of a 12th level PC's starting wealth. Maybe I will wait until the PCs are lvl 12 themselves before letting them encounter the riders.


Can someone tell me if an eidolon with the energy attacks and swallow whole evolutions deals its energy damage to a swallowed enemy too (since the bite deals the energy damage), or only the physical bite damage?


Did you really do war as a barbarian?
It's the martial class I would have taken least.
War should be a tactician, a leader, not just a brute.


I maintain that if anyone is to be in a leader role it would rather be Death, being the servant of the single oldest (and probably only original) horseman.

I do see your point though. Szuriel as the horseman of war though doesn't really emphasize either aspect of war, neither strategy nor the baseline bloodshed. With that said, my decision to make him a barbarian was maybe not optimal, but if i were to change it i should not look for a foremost tactician either but something that balances all aspacts of warfare. A class that is still an awesome foe in combat but isn't a simple brute either. Maybe I was alittle too strongly influenced by War from the game Darksiders.
I might look through cavalier archetypes again (i think the base cavalier is too strategic and synergetic and doesn't focus on its own powers enough)

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