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Can You Crit On A Wall?


Rules Questions

Taldor

Sounds funny, doesn't it?
This came up in last night's Pathfinder game:

Monk L8 uses his exploit weakness ability to get out of a flooding room trap. Water is between knee and waist high. He identifies the weakness, bypasses hardness and does full damage.

The issue came up when the half-orc Ranger8 was outside the trap, trying to hit the opposite wall. The player asked if he could be entitled to roll 2d20 to see if either would be a "20" to have a "crit threat" against the wall? I saw no need for him to make an attack roll, since he couldn't miss with his axe.

I'm asking if I should have allowed (per Pathfinder RPG RAW) him to roll his d20 dice with a 5% chance of crit on natural 20s?

I ruled to allow him to do so, but I'd greatly appreciate knowing what to do in this situation in the future per the rules.

Thanks all,
Pax


prd wrote:

Immunities: Objects are immune to nonlethal damage and to critical hits. Even animated objects, which are otherwise considered creatures, have these immunities.

Says it all.

-Flash

Cheliax

Breaking down a wall is considered a sunder combat maneuver. Under sunder, it says "You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack." So, I'd say yes. It's an attack, and as such, can score a critical.

Edit: Captain ninja'd me. Also proved me wrong. Now I know.. and knowing is half the battle.


Jason Beardsley wrote:

Breaking down a wall is considered a sunder combat maneuver. Under sunder, it says "You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack." So, I'd say yes. It's an attack, and as such, can score a critical.

Edit: Captain ninja'd me. Also proved me wrong. Now I know.. and knowing is half the battle.

Also you can not Sunder a wall it has no CMD.

I'm a Pirate Zombie Ninja.

Cheliax

True, however, sunder is weird. When you sunder an object, you're targeting it's AC with your d20+CMB


PRD wrote:

Sunder

You can attempt to sunder an item held or worn by your opponent as part of an attack action in place of a melee attack

A wall is neither held nor worn... although if a RRRRealy big enemy tries to attack you with a wall you could quicken true strike and sunder it then.


The rest of Sunder

PRD wrote:

If your attack is successful, you deal damage to the item normally. Damage that exceeds the object's Hardness is subtracted from its hit points. If an object has equal to or less than half its total hit points remaining, it gains the broken condition (see Conditions). If the damage you deal would reduce the object to less than 0 hit points, you can choose to destroy it. If you do not choose to destroy it, the object is left with only 1 hit point and the broken condition.

Sunder is a CMB and targets a CMD not an AC, if sucessful you deal damage, just like you would with a reagular attack, except you can choose not to destroy the item.

Sunder is an attack form for breaking an object manipulated by a creature. You otherwise use the Break DC rules or simply attack the object's sad sad AC and deal damage normally until you break it.

-Flash


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Somebody needs to study up on the breaking and entering rules.

A stone wall would have an AC of about 2 (assuming a 10-foot section), hardness 8, and 15 hit points per inch of thickness (or half that many hit points for masonry). You can swing at its AC as a sunder attempt, or hit automatically with a full-round action (if using a ranged weapon, you get a +4 to hit instead).

It is also impervious to most attacks unless you have an appropriate weapon which, per the rules, is a pickaxe or hammer.

Cheliax

Thank you for setting us straight RD =)

Taldor

So a fighter cannot crit on a wall per the PRD.

Could the monk crit using the exploit weakness ability and fist attacks per the PRD? Just wondered if there was an exception, since we see monks and martial artists chopping concrete bricks all the time. lol

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Card Game, Modules Subscriber

The monk can't crit against the wall, due to the same rule the fighter can't. However, the monk's attack using the exploit weakness ability could ignore the hardness of the wall making the monk's fists/feet/head/etc that much more effective than any non-adamantine weapon the fighter is wielding.

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