Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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Much like what nosig says, this seems like a case where you're distracted by needing to rush because the guy's getting away. Your attention is divided between trying to move quickly and trying to focus on the skill at hand.ok, just because this is me... can you take ten on skills during a Chase?I would call a chase equivalent to combat for purposes of T10.Why? You're not threatened, and you're not really distracted.
If you're in the front line, maybe. If you're already three rounds behind everybody else because they're double-advancing (let's not mention flying characters) and you keep rolling 4s or lower there's a whole lot less of a sense of urgency. I'd rather have the T10 option (even if only for a single-square advance) than just sit around and watch everybody else. Sometimes that won't be good enough, of course, in which case you have to roll the dice.
Edit: Perhaps T10 should be an option only after a failed attempt?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Questions on BBE tactics.
1)How does she use Poison? Does she have a chance of poisoning herself?
2) Entangle - there's no plants in the Market right? how does this do anything? Or do I say one of the stands is a Nersary/green house (and the PCs get grabbed by potted plants?) (I sort of get the picture of a PC rushing along with a potted shrub gripping his right arm, post trailing dirt behind...).
3) How does she use stealth to hide AND use rapid shot every round (with Multi shot too).
4) Is she on a tent pole? can someone cut it down? I sort of picture it as a crows nest on a ship mast of a circus tent pole, but the write-up just says "Her location in the tent-tower is 20 feet above the market and she has destroyed the ladder that normally leads up to it: creatures can ascend the tent-tower with a DC 15 Climb check." Climbing what? the outside of the tent? the tent pole inside? and what the heck is a Tent-Tower?
I'm not looking at the scenario at the moment so this is all seat of the pants comments.
1) From what I recall she can poison herself if she fumbles and has a potion to help with that possibility.
2) I assumed there would be enough growth in the alley for her to use it. If you don't think that's reasonable in an alleyway, use web instead.
3) Use the sniping rules until the party locates her then have her full attack. Most likely they will spot her pretty quickly.
4) Think of it like the mast of a ship and she's in a crows nest. The outside of the tent spreads out from that peak.
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Just ran this tonight, with only about 40 minutes to prep. So, I suspect I missed a few nuances.
Between the fire and the chase scene, as well as fairly extensive roleplay during the investigation portions, we went about 5.5-6 hours. I'd feel compelled to kill the chase scene in a convention/short time environment, and to kill the fire scene once the smoke portion of it was determined. As it was, I tried to give strong language toward the idea that the whole building was likely to go down. With the PCs inside burning cure resources, I felt somewhat compelled to let them burn through them before heading into the final encounter given their desire to keep fighting the fire along with in-character convo about why they were sticking with it.
Regarding the chase scene, one thing that I did was allow big roles allow diplomacy to give passage to the entire party. Regarding Handle Animal being trained only, anyone can handle domestic animals, which should apply here, regardless of the intent on the chase scene being intended for to allow use of untrained skills.
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I just did a little bit of math for the chase.
If anyone is interested - I generated a spreadsheet and you just pluck in the numbers.
The problem I see - it is too easy to get stuck completely.
I used the Pre-gens as a test.
The numbers can be pretty frustrating for players:
Average time to reach the rooftop
Valeros: 25 rounds
Kyra: 21 rounds
Ezren: 22 rounds
Merisiel: 14 rounds
The numbers assume single movement and optimal ! choice. You can be faster doing 3 squares at once - BUT you have to know in which square to do it.
The math was a little bit much - especially as you could get stuck in mire and lose a turn.
Also a really worrying number:
Everyone apart of Merisiel has a >10% chance to get stuck in a single square for 10 rounds or longer.
I hope I got all numbers right. I took Amour check penalties into account, Handle Animal can be done untrained as charisma check, Disable Device can't be used untrained.
Valeros level 1 Skill with movement modifier Skill
Acrobatics -6 -4 Stuck after x round at the start
Bluff -2 0 3 51.2%
Climb 1 3 5 32.8%
Disable Device -2 0 8 16.8%
Escape Artist -4 -2 10 10.7%
Intimidate -2 0 Stuck for x rounds in the worst square
Swim 1 3 3 51.2%
Diplomacy -2 0 5 32.8%
CMB 2 4 8 16.8%
Reflex 0 2 10 10.7%
Handle Animal -2 0 Chance Success Best choice Fast Average Rounds
Bath House Acrobatics 20 Bluff 15 -25% 20% 20% 0% 5.0
Mezzazine Climb 10 Reflex 15 60% 35% 60% 21% 1.7
Embassy Wall Climb 18 Disable Device 12 20% 0% 20% 0% 5.0
Crowded Market Escape 18 Intimidate 13 -5% 30% 30% 0% 3.3
Long Pond Swim 12 Acrobatic 20 50% -25% 50% 0% 2.0
Chelish Tea Party Diplomacy 12 CMB 17 35% 30% 35% 11% 2.9
Obstructive Hay Wagon Escape 18 Handle Animal 13 -5% 20% 20% 0% 5.0
24.9
Kyra level 1 Skill with movement modifier Skill
Acrobatics -2 -2 Stuck after x round at the start
Bluff 2 2 3 21.6%
Climb 0 0 5 7.8%
Disable Device 0 0 8 1.7%
Escape Artist -2 -2 10 0.6%
Intimidate 2 2 Stuck for x rounds in the worst square
Swim 0 0 3 61.4%
Diplomacy 2 2 5 44.4%
CMB 2 2 8 27.2%
Reflex 1 1 10 19.7%
Handle Animal 2 2 Chance Success Best choice Fast Average Rounds
Bath House Acrobatics 20 Bluff 15 -5% 40% 40% 0% 2.5
Mezzazine Climb 10 Reflex 15 55% 30% 55% 17% 1.8
Embassy Wall Climb 18 Disable Device 12 15% 0% 15% 0% 6.7
Crowded Market Escape 18 Intimidate 13 5% 50% 50% 3% 2.0
Long Pond Swim 12 Acrobatic 20 45% -5% 45% 0% 2.2
Chelish Tea Party Diplomacy 12 CMB 17 55% 30% 55% 17% 1.8
Obstructive Hay Wagon Escape 18 Handle Animal 13 5% 25% 25% 1% 4.0
21.0
Ezren level 1 Skill with movement modifier Skill
Acrobatics 2 2 Stuck after x round at the start
Bluff 0 0 3 34.3%
Climb 0 0 5 16.8%
Disable Device 0 0 8 5.8%
Escape Artist 2 2 10 2.8%
Intimidate 0 0 Stuck for x rounds in the worst square
Swim 0 0 3 61.4%
Diplomacy 0 0 5 44.4%
CMB 0 0 8 27.2%
Reflex 2 2 10 19.7%
Handle Animal 0 0 Chance Success Best choice Fast Average Rounds
Bath House Acrobatics 20 Bluff 15 15% 30% 30% 5% 3.3
Mezzazine Climb 10 Reflex 15 55% 30% 55% 17% 1.8
Embassy Wall Climb 18 Disable Device 12 15% 0% 15% 0% 6.7
Crowded Market Escape 18 Intimidate 13 25% 40% 40% 10% 2.5
Long Pond Swim 12 Acrobatic 20 45% 15% 45% 7% 2.2
Chelish Tea Party Diplomacy 12 CMB 17 45% 20% 45% 9% 2.2
Obstructive Hay Wagon Escape 18 Handle Animal 13 25% 30% 30% 8% 3.3
22.1
Merisiel level 1 Skill with movement modifier Skill
Acrobatics 7 7 Stuck after x round at the start
Bluff 0 0 3 21.6%
Climb 5 5 5 7.8%
Disable Device 7 7 8 1.7%
Escape Artist -1 -1 10 0.6%
Intimidate 0 0 Stuck for x rounds in the worst square
Swim 1 1 3 21.6%
Diplomacy 0 0 5 7.8%
CMB 2 2 8 1.7%
Reflex 6 6 10 0.6%
Handle Animal 0 0 Chance Success Best choice Fast Average Rounds
Bath House Acrobatics 20 Bluff 15 40% 30% 40% 12% 2.5
Mezzazine Climb 10 Reflex 15 80% 55% 80% 44% 1.3
Embassy Wall Climb 18 Disable Device 12 40% 80% 80% 32% 1.3
Crowded Market Escape 18 Intimidate 13 10% 40% 40% 4% 2.5
Long Pond Swim 12 Acrobatic 20 50% 40% 50% 20% 2.0
Chelish Tea Party Diplomacy 12 CMB 17 45% 30% 45% 14% 2.2
Obstructive Hay Wagon Escape 18 Handle Animal 13 10% 50% 50% 5% 2.0
13.7
Barnel
Acrobatics 9 Stuck after x round at the start
Bluff 7 3 4.3%
Climb 7 5 0.5%
Disable Device 9 8 0.0%
Escape Artist 11 10 0.0%
Intimidate -1 Stuck for x rounds in the worst square
Swim 7 3 16.6%
Diplomacy -1 5 5.0%
CMB 5 8 0.8%
Reflex 4 10 0.3%
Handle Animal -1 Chance Success Best choice Fast Average Rounds
Bath House Acrobatics 20 Bluff 15 50% 65% 65% 33% 1.5
Mezzazine Climb 10 Reflex 15 90% 65% 90% 59% 1.1
Embassy Wall Climb 18 Disable Device 12 50% 90% 90% 45% 1.1
Crowded Market Escape 18 Intimidate 13 70% 35% 70% 25% 1.4
Long Pond Swim 12 Acrobatic 20 80% 50% 80% 40% 1.3
Chelish Tea Party Diplomacy 12 CMB 17 40% 45% 45% 18% 2.2
Obstructive Hay Wagon Escape 18 Handle Animal 13 70% 40% 70% 28% 1.4
10.1
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Venture-Agent, Colorado—Denver
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I absolutely love this scenario and this entire thread gave me much insight when I run it again. I run a PF homegame with non-PFS players and, although there were a couple issues with the chase scene mechanics, they loved it. I purchased the Chase Card Deck immediately after first reading the scenario. Anyway, I want to run this at a convention for possibly mostly new players. Good idea or Bad idea?
Btw, is there a way to reply to an entire post? Never knew how if so. Sorry.
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Max
Thanks for posting - only by posting what doesn't work can Paizo improve the experience.
1) I posted elsewhere in regard to Chase. Unfortunately - if run as written it is likely that at least 1 character in a group gets stuck for 5 rounds or longer if the wrong skill check is chosen.
2) Calling the guards if you fail Intimidate (by enough) is written into the scenario and makes a lot of sense. But it also says you should be able to calm down the shop keeper. There is no DC for this - or the GM didn't read it. This is unfortunate in such a circumstance as failing on a NAT 20 is a huge downer in a scenario.
3) Not sure where the stacked sleep spell comes from. Only one of the two sisters as far as I can tell knows the spell.
4) Not sure what you mean with only one saved. I assume you are dealing with the warehouse. It should only do 1d6 non lethal if you fail - so even failing your first - it is rather a signal to give up a lost cause.
I think this adventure has a lot potential - to both be fun - but also just to be problematic and frustrating.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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4) Not sure what you mean with only one saved. I assume you are dealing with the warehouse. It should only do 1d6 non lethal if you fail - so even failing your first - it is rather a signal to give up a lost cause.
He said smoke, not heat. Fail a save versus smoke and you spend that round coughing. And you do it every round. Just a short string of bad luck and suddenly the fire's been multiplying for four rounds while you're stuck just standing still in the middle of it.
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Jiggy
You are right - I glanced over the paragraph quickly and read the start and the end.
On a different note - I earlier today did the math on the fire spread
Assuming the fire wins initiative (not everyone is close enough when it is triggered)
You start with 2 * 4 squares - 4 new ones start burning
Assuming Survival 0 you extinguish 0.35 squares per round (25% 1 square, 5% 2 squares).
Each skill point extinguishes 0.1 extra square / round.
Skill points from 5-9 count as 1.5 (you have the chance to extinguish up to 3 squares on high rolls)
Skill points from 10-14 count as 2 (You can extinguish up to 4 squares on very high rolls)
For a group of 4 you therefore need >26 skill points in survival (between the whole group) to extinguish faster as it spreads
For a group of 5 you need >22.5 skill points in survival
For a group of 6 you need > 19 skill points in survival
It is interesting - this leaves a dilemma for small low level groups.
a) They are either fast and lucky - and cut down the fire enough before it even can spread
b) they use creative means to extinguish it
The problem with b) is - with a 4 member party you need a GM that allows creativity to be more powerful as a first level spell (extinguishes only 1 square / round / person) or the warehouse burns down.
We only managed thanks to a second level spell that lasted multiple rounds - water elemental cast by a summoner - and 5 or 6 members in the party. Only the arrival of the water elemental - smothering 4 squares / turn was able to turn the tide.
My 'creative' solution - taking d6 damage (Fire resitance 5 that hopefully neutralizes it) and carrying out burning debris only managed 1/2 square per round due to movement needed. Creative - yes. But you would need a group of 8 to carry out enough to beat the flames.
Sometimes it can be good to know the math as GM - so you can be more generous with creativity.
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What a Disaster!
Yeah... I ran the God's Market Massacre that time. From the very beginning, "Don't kill people and don't mention religion" to two heavily armed soldiers and two divine magic-users seemed like a recipe for fun. The fact that nobody had Sleep or any other AoE/Will save spell got me worried about the end boss fight.
Going across the area asking for someone based on a first name and recent hangout instead of following up on your other leads had me flipping back and forth, and yeah, in the end I ended up declaring the chase "optional". When I was a player, the one guy who gave up just drew his longbow and started firing arrows through the tea party and bath house at the fleeing guy.
As for the guy who called for the Greycloaks, everyone made mistakes: the first two things you did were pretty much the things the scenario said would get him P.O.'d, and the botched Intimidate check was the last-ditch attempt. The nat 20 afterward wouldn't have mattered since they were already investigating, and my failing was getting caught without figuring out how to adjudicate it and keep everything going smoothly. (Also, don't forget killing the toughs who were just hired to fire a warning shot each... and their big dog first!)
The stacked sleep spells was because one sorceress cast it twice: the first one just put out one guy, and the second wouldn't come out if she would get instantly killed. Nobody tried to wake anybody up, and since nobody was able to use the Locate Item scroll, the un-improved grapple was pretty much the only way to go. At least it worked and nobody lost any HP.
As for the warehouse, only one person was actively trying to put out the fire, using the storm druid's Storm Bolts. Since they included some water in their description, I told her to roll ranged touch attacks as normal. She could put out one square with it, but with nobody helping out, it just wasn't enough. I did rule about the smoke to save time and prevent people from having to run through spreading fire before the BBEG though.
Yeah, neither time I was in it was there someone to cast Sleep or anything, though that would have resulted in an anti-climax. At least nobody died, unlike the time I went through it, and because the Greycloaks came in when she ran out of arrows, it did count as an arrest and a technically successful mission. Though because of how the investigation went, and the three deaths and property damage, it was basically lauded as a victory for the Greycloaks, reacting to all the dangerous occurrences and uncovering a corrupt member of their own.
(Oh, and P.S. for something I forgot to mention at the end of the scenario: that guy who was ready to take the Test of the Starstone? He didn't even make it in the front door)
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When I was a player, the one guy who gave up just drew his longbow and started firing arrows through the tea party and bath house at the fleeing guy.
That was me, wasn't it? After spending the first five or six rounds unable to move from the first square, since I had no ranks in Bluff and no ranks in Acrobatics?
After watching two near-TPKs, one as a player and one as an event coordinator, I'm unlikely to schedule this scenario again without knowing who will be seated at the table. No disrespect intended to Dennis Baker - I like the idea, the balance between the investigation and combat is nice, and the combats are challenging for the right balance of party members. Unfortunately, if the party's not balanced right, it's just a slaughter.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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@Thod: Yeah, I've thought about the spreading versus quenching of the fire, too. I also came to the conclusion that there's no point in ever bothering to try to stop the fire. It's a lost cause. Which is kind of sad.
So that leaves you with two options: don't go in once you see the fire (which has serious repercussions), or walk knowingly into a fire you can't possibly hope to stop and essentially act like there's not a fire, and hope you make your Fort saves against the smoke consistently enough to get your work done and get out before you get burned alive.
I think the only reason my table made it is because the GM sometimes forgot to ask for Fort saves.
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There's other ways to deal with fires, unfortunately your druid was a level too low for SNA2 to get elementals for 3 rounds. a water elemental or two does wonders for putting out structure fires.
Not having any options to deal with ranged is bad. "We can't kill an archer" is a failing of the party, not the writer.
Yes - a Water Elemental from a summoner is how we managed. But this was subtier 4-5.
The issue is - this is a level 1-5 - not 3-7. On tier 1-2 you only have max. level 1 spells - unless you use a scroll or play down.
Assuming 8 burning squares = 4 new burning squares.
With a group of 4 you need to quench >1 square / character. A level 1 spell only extinguishes 1 square - so you just prevent the spread - hoping your comrades manage to extinguish faster.
You need Survival 20-24 for 2 squares / round
Survival 25-29 for 3 squares
A spell level 2 for 4 squares (and best one that lasts a few rounds
Or you allow creative solutions that are better as the survival = >1 square per round is extinguished.
I write this here without trying to criticize the writer - just to know the math as I GM this soon and how to deal with it if I don't want to have a burnt down building for a tier 1-2 as a foregone conclusion.
And I assume that the idea is that a tier 1-2 group of 4 still should have a chance if playing intelligently.
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No snark detected. I blame meta play. The players I game with tend to see a game map and assume a fight. Wands come out and buffs begin. Statistically, they're in the right. I'm willing to bet that a fight occurs more often when entering a mapped area than not and far, far more often than a trap.
As a note, as a GM, I do enjoy breaking out the game map occasionally as a red herring. It's satisfying watching those wand charges of gravity bow and shield get wasted.
One of the nice things about God Market's Gamble is that it has fake encounters built right into the mod. I had maps prepped for all those encounters when I played them online, and when running it IRL I would talk them through encounters until putting them on the map for this mod.
However, the PCs are going into a warehouse where they know the BBEG of the scenario has been storing all her stuff, it's not unreasonable to assume it's guarded. If the aren't going to be cautious and buff + run in, then too bad. Looks like they learned their lesson.
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A few other people knew the location of the warehouse, Kanebti and Barnelle iirc. If either were captured alive they could be asked.
If the party is 5th level, buying a speak with dead isn't out of the question.
Having guns pointed at head and knives at throats is a standard interrogation method for PC's. Spellcasters should be aware that martials do NOT know if they're casting vanish or a stilled Evards painful spleen extraction and will react accordingly. Cooporation with the PC's is key to your survival once the fight is over.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've had two tables that have lost track of their goal during that encounter, and secured the keg to make sure it couldn't be stolen. The sisters tried, gave up, and fled.
In both cases, a moment passed.
Then the party realized what happened. I tried very hard to keep my smile inside.
In one case, the party had a couple of the killer's arrows. (I'd described them having particular red-and-white fletching, so they'd recognize the arrow that they find at the end of the chase scene is from the same person who dropped the pathfinder agent in the alley.) They had a rough idea of the location of the killer, and they had a locate object scroll. Clever play on their part brought them to the marketplace denoument without even opening the warehouse door.
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Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I've had two tables that have lost track of their goal during that encounter, and secured the keg to make sure it couldn't be stolen. The sisters tried, gave up, and fled.
In both cases, a moment passed.
Then the party realized what happened. I tried very hard to keep my smile inside.
I think I'm going to have to take a look at the scenario; this is the second encounter that appears to have given other parties a lot more trouble than we ran into.
Admittedly we had a full table, suspicious players with hard-to-surprise characters, and some good rolls. We were able to forestall the attempt to relieve us of our burden, and a critical hit on a power attack from the barbarian was a bit more than one of the sisters could cope with.
I don't believe we were being soft-balled; we were low-level characters playing in a low-level tier, so we probably had an easier time than a higher-level party might have had. But it sounds as though we might have managed to end up with close to an ideal strategy.
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Looking for some tips/advice for a new(ish) DM. After running God's Market it came to a stumbling screeching halt, in part due to the players, but I feel as a DM, I train-wrecked it.
... snip
Does anyone have any Ancient DM wisdom to pass along? Please be nice, I'm still learning.
First of all - thanks for stepping up !! Being the GM can be a daunting responsibility.
PFS scenarios sometimes can be very linear. And it can be difficult to have the group follow the track - without railroading them all the time.
Killing an important person with information: At least 1 scenario - shipyard rats - solves this issue by also offering a slip of paper with the information on it in case the group kills the person before being able to interrogate her. This is written into the scenario.
Well - when I ran it the first time - the group killed her by drowning. The monk just bull rushed her into the harbour - and with her heavy armour and no swim she just drowned. Luckily the slip of paper just dropped out of her pocked while she was bull rushed.
So in the above scenario a possibility would be map / piece of paper. Alternatively - Grandmaster Torch did send a messenger earlier - he could send one again.
Doing this is a tough call. You have to balance if you are willing to end the game here and now - or if you feel it should go on as part might have been how you as GM acted - or just because the players used a creative way to solve a problem - to inadvertently cause another one.
I would never to this for a faction mission. But if it means to stop the game early - then these are options to carry on. Especially if the players are also a new and inexperienced group.
I hope this helps. In the end - there is no single advice that will always apply. There always will be special circumstances that lead to the problem and it is then up to the GM to decide to come up with a possible solution or to call it a day.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Does anyone have any Ancient DM wisdom to pass along? Please be nice, I'm still learning.
Sometimes players drop the ball and fail. Not much you can do.
A few other people knew the location of the warehouse, Kanebti and Barnelle iirc. If either were captured alive they could be asked.
What makes you think this? I certainly didn't write that anywhere.
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Does anyone have any Ancient DM wisdom to pass along? Please be nice, I'm still learning.Sometimes players drop the ball and fail. Not much you can do.
A few other people knew the location of the warehouse, Kanebti and Barnelle iirc. If either were captured alive they could be asked.What makes you think this? I certainly didn't write that anywhere.
Should the PCs catch Barnel in the chase or if they are
able to revive the dying fence for long enough to questionhim, Barnel accepts his defeat and reveals the following
details to them
While he doesn’t know the exact location of his
boss’s hideout, he knows that the goods are usually
kept somewhere on the north side of the Ascendant
Court, in a warehouse near the Pitview Pub.
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Scheduled to run this with my party next week, and I feel it will be glorious! They are very seasoned players who most certainly have the capacity to out-think challenging scenarios... but lately have fallen to a kill and ask questions later philosophy.
Maybe this will be just what they need to drag them back out of that dungeon-crawl mentality! That... or they may just TPK... again.
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If you're playing through this scenario, please keep in mind that Rialla, the hawt halfling witness, is wicked easy.
All you have to do is take her to the opera and she'll drop her knickers before you can say "When can I see you again?"
you realize she gets a commision on sales of Remove Disease?.... just thought you should know.
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If you're playing through this scenario, please keep in mind that Rialla, the hawt halfling witness, is wicked easy.
All you have to do is take her to the opera and she'll drop her knickers before you can say "When can I see you again?"
Just don't disturb the kobold in the next booth..
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He said smoke, not heat. Fail a save versus smoke and you spend that round coughing. And you do it every round. Just a short string of bad luck and suddenly the fire's been multiplying for four rounds while you're stuck just standing still in the middle of it.
My Paladin failed 5 saves in a row, and had to be dragged, unconscious, from the warehouse. The DC to put out a square of fire is just ridiculous, and the GM ruled that even Create Water would only put out one square per round. Just not feasible in Tier 1-2, but by the time we realized it was hopeless it was too late.
I actually liked the chase mechanics, even though I knew going into it my Paladin wouldn't get very far. He did the LG thing and Aided the other characters on their checks, and even carried a Rogue's backpack so she could run through unencumbered.
I think the GM rolled pitifully low on the BBE's damage, because he only managed to drop two of us into neg hp. :D
On Edit: If I were to run this, I would add a reminder about the rules for holding your breath to my description of the fire and smoke. I thought there would be a little more warning, but it went from "There's some squares on fire" to "Make a Fort save or lose your turn"
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So I played this one at Gencon (at subtier 1-2; 6 players: 2 rangers, alchemist, 2 wizards, valeros. Healing by 2 wands only) and just wanted to give some feedback. I like this scenario and the strange part is that the act that most people hate was actually the best part of the scenario for us.
The chase scene was actually the BEST part of the scenario for us, because the GM (MillerHero, good GM) treated each square as a mini-roleplay opportunity, not just a faceless skill check. Lots of jokes were made and it was fun. Chases get bashed a lot, but the problem is not with the chases, the problem is with how they're implemented.
Having said that, the main problem with the chase scene is that the 1st square is incredibly hard (it was DC 15 Bluff and DC 25 Acrobatics I think). PCs with heavy armor are basically forced to make Bluff checks (with bad CHR maybe!) to get past it. So roll a 17 or better. Hahahaha.
Heavy armored PCs also get stuck on another obstacle as well (Climb and Disable Device?). So they might as well go have a smoke break.
In addition, it seemed that the NPC was built to bypass the obstacles (he had acrobatics and many of the obstacles seemed to feature acrobatics). So he was fast.
We did fairly well chasing him (we all had light armor and were highly skilled) and even so... it came down to our ranger blasting him from 1 square away before he escaped. So it was close, even with an above average group.
Having said that, the chase mechanics could be improved. For example, there should be an option to bypass an obstacle automatically by using 2 rounds of movement.
I agree, badly run chase scenes suck (and I had one of those at Gencon 2011), but if they're run well with some personality, they are awesome. The question is, how do we train GMs to run them better? I have no idea, because part of the problem comes down to a willingness to roleplay.
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The worst part of the scenario was the warehouse. I think it took 30-45 minutes and it wasn't exciting at all. It took that long even with the GM moving it along and being very fast.
We kicked the crap out of the final boss. If I was a little closer, I would have ended it with Charm Person (she failed her save), but we then realized I was out of range. Instead, our alchemist bombed her and it was over fairly quickly. If we were all melee it would have been a problem, but even 1 good ranged or spellcaster can end it quickly.
Bottom line, if she is beating the party, get hard cover (or run around a corner), heal up and come back. You have healing, I assume she has maybe a potion. It's unfair... in your favor.
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It didn't really make sense that she was dropping arrows everywhere (fumble fingers?), but the rest was good so we ignored it.
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Just ran this one last night (after wanting a chance to run it for some time, after having played it under Bob Jonquet at Con of the North).
I hope that I did this scenario credit, because it is a really good one. I will say that after last night, I would strongly recommend it not be played with any first level characters, and that it should be a well balanced mix/
Characters we had:
Rogue 1 (primary weapon, crossbow)
Inquistor(Travel)/Sorcerer 1/1
Fighter 1 (pretty sure his primary weapon was spiked armor?)
pregen Ninja 1
Sorcerer 1
So, not really an ideal group. No real heavy hitter at all.
But:
They seemed to get into the investigation, they started with Jarid. They were getting a little frustrated (couldn't quite roll well enough to get him to talk, but hadn't thought to actually buy anything). The two sorcerers decided to intimidate him, by one blasting a trinket with a frost bolt... which had him calling for the guards. The fighter (of all characters) managed to defuse that situation, buy buying a "bowl that was used by Iroran mendicants to focus their meditations" for a "mere 20gp". He also paid for the copper amulet of <can't recall which god it was supposedly from> that they sorcerer damaged... another 'mere' 25gp. With one more attempt to talk, I let them have a Sense Motive roll, which suggested that he was waiting for a bribe, which the fighter also paid for. They left without further incident (and without Cayden Cailean's Lost Loincloth!)
The ambush was handled well... the dog was splattered, but the two thugs (having made their point) ran when the sorcs started throwing magic missiles and frost bolts their way.
The other investigations went well, and they found the needed information to locate Barnel. The chase went about as I recalled, with Barnel getting stuck at the Chelish Tea Party (I couldn't roll better than a 2 on the three checks he made there!)
They then wanted to hurry to find the warehouse, when the urchin brought the news that Torch wanted to speak with them. Using the "distraction" of a parade at this time prevented the rogue from continuing his search for the warehouse.
With the feint (the gamble?) of Cayden's Last Keg, I probably didn't stress enough that they were supposed to lose. I also didn't do a good enough job of getting the twins out of there (I could have, and the players did comment "why is she fighting?" My mistake.) So, when one was killed, I allowed them to leak the needed information as to the warehouse. They brought the two to the Grand Lodge, along with the Keg.
They then proceeded to the warehouse... with a healthy sense of paranoia. Unfortunately, the Rogue miscalculated his Perception check, else he would have seen the first fire trap. He moved in right into the trap, starting the fire. Even at 1-2 that was pretty brutal, and without a bunch of character rushing in and pulling out coughing characters, a few deaths would have occurred here.
Then the ambush. The reason I would not want to ever run with a party of less than APL 2 again. They really couldn't get at Parani. The Ninja tried climbing up (I missed the exact text of her sniping position, and had it as only a DC10 climb, and 15', but I think he rolled well enough regardless). She was shooting at the two sorcerers (Inquisitor first), and sent her hawk down as well. The hawk really did a number on the Inq/Sorc, who ran into a tent to heal up.
The others were able to finish off the bird, but continued taking brutal fire from Parani. I wasn't rolling well, missing on about 1/2 of her shots. The sorcerer went down, but was Stabilized by the Inq/Sorc. When the Ninja made it to the roof, Parani gulped her potion, and started moving to location "B". A net Perception roll of 8 did not locate her for an attempted attack.
Then, the ninja took an arrow for 8... becoming staggered. She hid on the backside of the tent roof for a few rounds, until trying to sneak forward for an attack.
The Fighter climbed up to location "B", and took a couple of arrows to the face, and pretty much the same happened to the Rogue. The sorc/inq decided to run (with travel domain, he could run 160'). Parani took a single poisoned shot at her (having taken the time to poison a final arrow), and hit him, leaving him at exactly 0hp, and staggered. A nat 20 on the Fort save kept the poison at bay, and he ducked behind a tent with his next move.
The final round, the ninja had finally crawled her way close enough to get a sneak attack on Parani... and rolled an 18!! And then confirmed!! 14hp left, she passes out... Parani is still at 10hp.
At this time, I consulted with my V-C, because I didn't think it made sense for her to finish off the 4 downed opponents. He suggested that with one PC still out there, going for help, she would flee the city, rather than taking the time to kill them all off. I agreed. 80% TPK averted.
In the end, they did have the documents (the fleet of foot inq/sorc had them), but no Parani, so they did not succeed at the mission. But, at least they all lived!
I believe they all had fun, in spite of the rather brutal ending. I really would like to run this again (and perhaps not make a few of the mistakes I did along the way), but not with a group of 1st level characters.