Paizo Top Nav Branding
  • Hello, Guest! |
  • Sign In |
  • My Account |
  • Shopping Cart |
  • Help/FAQ
About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game
Pathfinder Society

Pathfinder Beginner Box

Pathfinder Adventure Card Game

Pathfinder Comics

Pathfinder Legends

PaizoCon 2014!

Does a Purple Worm Zombie lose its poison?


Rules Questions


5 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

The zombie template says the creature loses all of it's special attacks, but the only special attack listed under the purple worm is its Swallow Whole ability.

I thought that it would keep its poison, but later found out that poison is listed as a special attack in the Universal Monster Rules.

So my question is this: Is poison (and other similar abilities) ALWAYS considered a special attack? Or only when they are listed under the Special Attack entry?


Zombie CR is a function of HD so that makes it pretty clear the base creature shouldn't case huge fluctuations in lethality. The GM should error on the side of caution and common sense before letting a critter keep too much of it's original package.

Are you seriously thinking the moving corpse of a purple worm should keep making more poison?


Are you seriously trying to apply logic to a topic where you've already decided Undead can exist? ;)


Logic is about finding the implications and consequences of an original assumption.

Assuming there is a giant zombie worm, would it still have poison?

I would say that the intent of the rules is that the worm loses poison, and that it should have had poison listed under special attacks in the first place.


agreed.
I would rule that poison require an organic living tissue to produce poison. undead can't do that.

come to think about it.... Ghouls got paralysis venom bite, no ?


Ironballs wrote:

agreed.

I would rule that poison require an organic living tissue to produce poison. undead can't do that.

come to think about it.... Ghouls got paralysis venom bite, no ?

No. Their bite does paralyze, but it isn't a poison. (They do spread disease with their bite, though.)


Juju zombies keep their poison despite not having a metabolism, working glands, etc.

Why then, would it be so hard to believe that other forms of undead might keep it also?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ravingdork wrote:

Juju zombies keep their poison despite not having a metabolism, working glands, etc.

Why then, would it be so hard to believe that other forms of undead might keep it also?

I'd allow it for some undead, like zombies.

For skeletons and ghosts, though, I probably wouldn't allow it.

Cheliax

Well, in theory, the bite of a purple worm zombie could still be venomous if it hasn't used up all it's venom yet. So on it's first bite attack, maybe.


the David wrote:
Well, in theory, the bite of a purple worm zombie could still be venomous if it hasn't used up all it's venom yet. So on it's first bite attack, maybe.

The poison is in its tail sting, not its bite.

I think people are getting too caught up on fluff. Unlike things like regeneration, there is nothing that states undead can't generate and use poison.


Zombies

Spoiler:
Special Attacks: A zombie retains none of the base creature's special attacks.

Special Qualities: A zombie loses most special qualities of the base creature. It retains any extraordinary special qualities that improve its melee or ranged attacks. A zombie gains the following special quality.

Purple Worm

Spoiler:
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Poison (Ex)

Sting—injury; save Fortitude DC 25; frequency 1/round for 6 rounds; effect 1d4 Strength damage; cure 3 consecutive saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Poison

Spoiler:
Poison (Ex or Su)

A creature with this ability can poison those it attacks. The effects of the poison, including its save, frequency, and cure, are included in the creature’s description. The saving throw to resist a poison is usually a Fort save (DC 10 + 1/2 the poisoning creature’s racial HD + the creature’s Con modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). Poisons can be removed through neutralize poison and similar effects.

Format: Poison Name (Ex) Sting—injury; save Fort DC 22, frequency 1/round for 6 rounds, effect 1d4 Con, cure 2 consecutive saves; Location: Special Attacks and individual attacks.

I've italicized the parts that could be read as supporting a poisonous purple worm zombie, and bolded those that denounce it. The DC of a proposed zombie purple worm venom would be 17, just for giggles.

The language between special attacks/special abilities/ and special qualities is murky here.


Thanks Glutton. I'm leaning towards the notion that PWZs don't get the poison benefit (though PWJJZs most certainly do), but there's enough doubt and rules ambiguity that I felt it worth asking about.


Yeah, same. Weird though, it means aCrag linnorm loses it's constrict and things like that. Guess the undead version is just too stupid. But then it appears an Ash Giant can still wield huge weapons


Heres a good example, Cyclops have flash of insight under SQ. The (kingmaker spoiler)

Spoiler:
Cyclops zombies in kingmaker still have this ability
I believe. I wasn't running it myself but thats what I assume they are.

Edit: After a little research I found that they are actually

Spoiler:
Dread zombies, which retain ALL of the base creatures special attacks

So your guess is as good as mine now. =/

Paizo Employee Official Rules Response

The purple worm stat block should list "poison" under Special Abilities. It loses its poison if it becomes a zombie.

Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder RPG / Rules Questions / Does a Purple Worm Zombie lose its poison? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.

©2002–2014 Paizo Inc.®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 during our business hours: Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Inc., Paizo, the Paizo golem logo, Pathfinder, the Pathfinder logo, Pathfinder Society, GameMastery, and Planet Stories are registered trademarks of Paizo Inc., and Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Pathfinder Adventure Path, Pathfinder Adventure Card Game, Pathfinder Player Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Tales, Pathfinder Battles, Pathfinder Online, PaizoCon, RPG Superstar, The Golem's Got It, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Inc. Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and have been used by Paizo Inc. under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.