paizo.com Recent Posts in What to do when your table is all non-healerspaizo.com Recent Posts in What to do when your table is all non-healers2012-03-30T11:36:12Z2012-03-30T11:36:12ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersFromperhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#342012-04-02T14:32:51Z2012-04-02T14:32:51Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tim Statler wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.</p>
<p>Now the non-combat portions were difficult.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Barbarian Logic 101: The faster I kill them, the less time they have to try and kill me.Tim Statler wrote:I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.
Now the non-combat portions were difficult.
Barbarian Logic 101: The faster I kill them, the less time they have to try and kill me.Fromper2012-04-02T14:32:51ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#332012-04-02T13:12:38Z2012-04-02T13:12:38Z<p>Nice</p>NiceHelaman2012-04-02T13:12:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersJiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#322012-04-02T13:01:56Z2012-04-02T13:01:56Z<p>In relation to the topic of this thread:</p>
<p>Yesterday I played in a scenario where 7 PCs played up to subtier 4-5 (levels were 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3). </p>
<p>Fighting the 7th-level BBEG, the cleric went down in round 1 without ever acting. Fast-forward three or four rounds, and my wife's Ranger1/Bard1 with the Sacred Touch trait has saved three lives (including the cleric's).</p>In relation to the topic of this thread:
Yesterday I played in a scenario where 7 PCs played up to subtier 4-5 (levels were 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3).
Fighting the 7th-level BBEG, the cleric went down in round 1 without ever acting. Fast-forward three or four rounds, and my wife's Ranger1/Bard1 with the Sacred Touch trait has saved three lives (including the cleric's).Jiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)2012-04-02T13:01:56ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healerslastblacknighthttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#312012-04-02T04:28:00Z2012-04-02T04:28:00Z<p>It depends on how the dice are rolling; low tier inexperienced tables without healing are a nightmare, combats take forever, people are hesitant and scared to act...</p>
<p>My personal favourite is the higher tier table who decides to <i>'Play up'</i> without a healer.</p>
<p>For overconfident power-gamers, it's high risk, high reward play!
<br />
These tables are best dealt with rolling in the open to avoid complications. They either play really well or if the scenario falls outside their niches, really poorly....</p>
<p>For the OP - bring the character you really want and bring your own wand, <i>may the dice be in your favour.</i></p>It depends on how the dice are rolling; low tier inexperienced tables without healing are a nightmare, combats take forever, people are hesitant and scared to act...
My personal favourite is the higher tier table who decides to 'Play up' without a healer.
For overconfident power-gamers, it's high risk, high reward play!
These tables are best dealt with rolling in the open to avoid complications. They either play really well or if the scenario falls outside their niches, really poorly....
...lastblacknight2012-04-02T04:28:00ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersChris Mortika (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#302012-04-02T04:03:18Z2012-04-02T04:03:18Z<p>Don't
<br />
Get
<br />
Hit.</p>Don't
Get
Hit.Chris Mortika (RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16)2012-04-02T04:03:18ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersTim Statlerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#292012-04-02T03:14:04Z2012-04-02T03:14:04Z<p>One combat against teh boss monster.:
<br />
Party Fighter is enlarged and buffed before combat. Suprise roun d- partial charge,crit, one minion down. Beats main bad guy on init.
<br />
1st round- charge main bad guy, crit, one shot kill.</p>
<p>One of the other players "When do we get to the big fight?"</p>One combat against teh boss monster.:
Party Fighter is enlarged and buffed before combat. Suprise roun d- partial charge,crit, one minion down. Beats main bad guy on init.
1st round- charge main bad guy, crit, one shot kill.
One of the other players "When do we get to the big fight?"Tim Statler2012-04-02T03:14:04ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersWalterGM (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#282012-04-01T17:43:40Z2012-04-01T17:43:40Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Tim Statler wrote:</div><blockquote><p> I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.</p>
<p>Now the non-combat portions were difficult.
<br />
</blockquote><p>Hah, yea. That was like our table. Team "haste enlarge rage reach trip" was quite the success.Tim Statler wrote:I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.
Now the non-combat portions were difficult.
Hah, yea. That was like our table. Team "haste enlarge rage reach trip" was quite the success.WalterGM (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8)2012-04-01T17:43:40ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersRuss Taylor (Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#272012-04-01T16:06:26Z2012-04-01T16:06:26Z<p>Die horribly?</p>Die horribly?Russ Taylor (Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6)2012-04-01T16:06:26ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersTim Statlerhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#262012-04-01T15:16:39Z2012-04-01T15:16:39Z<p>I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.</p>
<p>Now the non-combat portions were difficult.</p>I've seen a 5 player table of PA fighters and barbarians Waltz thru all the fights in a mod without much more than a scratch. Enemies just didn't last long.
Now the non-combat portions were difficult.Tim Statler2012-04-01T15:16:39ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#252012-04-01T10:53:39Z2012-04-01T10:53:39Z<p>I think the massive availability of wands of CLW in PFS play past level 2 (while not negating) reduces the need for dedicated heal-bots.</p>
<p>I do know that in the game where I played a cleric to help out a table with no healer I saved one guys life for sure and may have saved two others - Channeled heals can be a real life saver.</p>
<p>Anyways, I'll take the advice offered. I'll ask if there is anyone with wands, then ask if anyone has issues with helping out with a fresh brand new character IF the guy needs it and play from there. If there are players who seem reluctant or opposed to the idea OR if there isn't any wands etc then I'll pop out another character.</p>I think the massive availability of wands of CLW in PFS play past level 2 (while not negating) reduces the need for dedicated heal-bots.
I do know that in the game where I played a cleric to help out a table with no healer I saved one guys life for sure and may have saved two others - Channeled heals can be a real life saver.
Anyways, I'll take the advice offered. I'll ask if there is anyone with wands, then ask if anyone has issues with helping out with a fresh brand new character IF the...Helaman2012-04-01T10:53:39ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersWalterGM (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#242012-04-01T08:29:55Z2012-04-01T08:29:55Z<p>Jiggy had the right notion. Bring both, tell them about the one you want to play. Surely there will be discussion of the ramifications of not having a healer, and they'll either have someone play a level 1 pregen cleric or play one of their own healer-types. If they don't, they're agreeing to the terms of "we don't have a healer, play smart." </p>
<p>From a GM perspective, the tables without healers get crippled easier, but are in no ways a wipe waiting to happen. </p>
<p>Heck, I played a 8-9 tier with a level 6 wizard, two level 9 fighter types and my level 8 witch as the solo healer (not built as one), using wands of CLW (actually they were ILW because we were playing <i>You Only Die Twice</i>), and even though things got really hairy we ended it without a singly player death. Players tend to get sloppy when there's ample healing, without it, you just need to be a bit more careful.</p>Jiggy had the right notion. Bring both, tell them about the one you want to play. Surely there will be discussion of the ramifications of not having a healer, and they'll either have someone play a level 1 pregen cleric or play one of their own healer-types. If they don't, they're agreeing to the terms of "we don't have a healer, play smart."
From a GM perspective, the tables without healers get crippled easier, but are in no ways a wipe waiting to happen.
Heck, I played a 8-9 tier with a...WalterGM (RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8)2012-04-01T08:29:55ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#232012-04-01T04:23:11Z2012-04-01T04:23:11Z<p>I have a CLW wand but I may get one just for me... CLW is for the newbies or to help others.</p>
<p>It seriously beats the CLWs as the average is 5-6 hps vs 10.</p>I have a CLW wand but I may get one just for me... CLW is for the newbies or to help others.
It seriously beats the CLWs as the average is 5-6 hps vs 10.Helaman2012-04-01T04:23:11ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersNinjaxenomorphhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#222012-04-01T04:15:16Z2012-04-01T04:15:16Z<p>Have the magus, if he's not Good, take Infernal healing. Fast Healing 1 for 1 minute = 10 out-of-combat HP.</p>Have the magus, if he's not Good, take Infernal healing. Fast Healing 1 for 1 minute = 10 out-of-combat HP.Ninjaxenomorph2012-04-01T04:15:16ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersDelbert Collins II (alias of DCII)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#212012-03-30T18:35:38Z2012-03-30T18:35:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">hogarth wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.</p>
<p>Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much. </blockquote><p>Good point Level 1-2 scenarios do generally have ample healing. Just remember to loot heartily.hogarth wrote:Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.
Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Good point Level 1-2 scenarios do generally have ample healing. Just remember to loot heartily.Delbert Collins II (alias of DCII)2012-03-30T18:35:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersSartahttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#202012-03-30T18:12:03Z2012-03-30T18:12:03Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Helaman wrote:</div><blockquote>I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.</blockquote><p>Play what you think will be most fun. Just keep in mind that you are only one of the players at the table, so not solely responsible for their characters' safety and well-being.
<p>Frankly, some of the most fun tables are ones which are not "balanced".</p>Helaman wrote:I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.
Play what you think will be most fun. Just keep in mind that you are only one of the players at the table, so not solely responsible for their characters' safety...Sarta2012-03-30T18:12:03ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#192012-03-30T17:33:20Z2012-03-30T17:33:20Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Enevhar Aldarion wrote:</div><blockquote> <div class="messageboard-quotee">Helaman wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.</blockquote>Just a side question for you, but if it is a fresh level 1, how can it already be multiclassed? To have that second class, you would have to have already played in three scenarios. </blockquote><p>I was missing a comma... it should read:
<p>my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build<span class=messageboard-bigger><b>,</b></span> a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric</p>Enevhar Aldarion wrote:Helaman wrote:
I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.
Just a side question for you, but if it is a fresh level 1, how can it already be multiclassed? To have that second class, you would have...Helaman2012-03-30T17:33:20ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersLazarXhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#182012-03-30T16:58:48Z2012-03-30T16:58:48Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Delbert Collins II wrote:</div><blockquote> Make sure there are plenty of Wands of Cure Light and some classes that can Use Magic Device. </blockquote><p>The Bard can use it straight up.Delbert Collins II wrote:Make sure there are plenty of Wands of Cure Light and some classes that can Use Magic Device.
The Bard can use it straight up.LazarX2012-03-30T16:58:48ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersEnevhar Aldarionhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#172012-03-30T16:54:56Z2012-03-30T16:54:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Helaman wrote:</div><blockquote><br />
<br />
I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.</blockquote><p>Just a side question for you, but if it is a fresh level 1, how can it already be multiclassed? To have that second class, you would have to have already played in three scenarios.Helaman wrote:I'll look on the day... I can bring in my FRESH level 1 - a finesse build a level 1/1 Samurai-Magus or my level 1 cleric with a brand new wand of clw... and while I dont mind helping new players I remember one session where I ended up down 17 charges - predominately on other players who chose not to have such a wand.
Just a side question for you, but if it is a fresh level 1, how can it already be multiclassed? To have that second class, you would have to have already played in...Enevhar Aldarion2012-03-30T16:54:56ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersJason Shttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#162012-03-31T21:32:39Z2012-03-30T14:32:17Z<p>The PCs in my home game are all non-healers and they do great. I even consider it "optimal", because there is more DPS/DPR, not as much healing is needed. Our "healer" is actually a Sorcerer.</p>
<p>The only thing you really need is someone who can provide out of combat healing, by using a wand of cure light wounds (5.5 hp average per charge) or even better, Infernal Healing (10 hp per charge) if you don't mind a slight evil aura.</p>
<p>Infernal Healing is a 1st level spell that can be used by most arcane spellcasters. If you don't have any spellcasters, you're relying on UMD (which our rogue is very good at), which is possible but risky.</p>
<p>Treat Deadly Wounds (Heal skill) takes too long, costs too much, and does too little.</p>
<p>Healing potions are meant for emergencies only, using them as your main healing method is a waste of gold imo.</p>
<p>People with 2 PP can buy wands before the mission if they don't have them. There's really no excuse not to bring your own healing, it's so cheap. Yes, if someone is too cheap to buy one, they deserve a TPK.</p>
<p>The 2nd level guys that have wands either share (with the level 1s), or they can go in front and you guys can fail the mission. I've never understood non-team orientated thinking. </p>
<p>It really depends on the scenario whether there are healing potions lying around or not.</p>The PCs in my home game are all non-healers and they do great. I even consider it "optimal", because there is more DPS/DPR, not as much healing is needed. Our "healer" is actually a Sorcerer.
The only thing you really need is someone who can provide out of combat healing, by using a wand of cure light wounds (5.5 hp average per charge) or even better, Infernal Healing (10 hp per charge) if you don't mind a slight evil aura.
Infernal Healing is a 1st level spell that can be used by most...Jason S2012-03-30T14:32:17ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersFromperhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#152012-03-30T14:18:56Z2012-03-30T14:18:56Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">hogarth wrote:</div><blockquote><p> Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.</p>
<p>Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much. </blockquote><p>Mostly agreed. Potions of CLW are only 50 gp and always available, so I'd recommend getting a few people to have their own before hand.
<p>If you're playing Shipyard Rats or Dalsine Affair, just play the character that you don't mind getting killed.</p>hogarth wrote:Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.
Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Mostly agreed. Potions of CLW are only 50 gp and always available, so I'd recommend getting a few people to have their own before hand. If you're playing Shipyard Rats or Dalsine Affair, just play...Fromper2012-03-30T14:18:56ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healershogarthhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#142012-03-30T13:51:47Z2012-03-30T13:51:47Z<p>Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.</p>
<p>Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much.</p>Maybe my experience is out of whack, but I've often found that level 1-2 adventures are pretty generous with healing potions, at least in the first couple of seasons.
Frankly, unless the adventure you're playing has a reputation as a real killer, I wouldn't worry about it too much.hogarth2012-03-30T13:51:47ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersJiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#132012-03-30T13:47:29Z2012-03-30T13:47:29Z<p>Well, then bring both characters (and don't tell anyone you brought the healer). Just point out it's a brand new character and ask if people will heal you as needed.</p>
<p>If it's a table full of jerks, then pull out the other character.</p>Well, then bring both characters (and don't tell anyone you brought the healer). Just point out it's a brand new character and ask if people will heal you as needed.
If it's a table full of jerks, then pull out the other character.Jiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)2012-03-30T13:47:29ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#122012-03-30T13:45:52Z2012-03-30T13:45:52Z<p>I am assuming worst case... to be fair I haven't met guys like that yet</p>I am assuming worst case... to be fair I haven't met guys like that yetHelaman2012-03-30T13:45:52ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersJiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#112012-03-30T13:40:38Z2012-03-30T13:40:38Z<div class="messageboard-quotee">Helaman wrote:</div><blockquote> This is a green table so there wont be a lot - there are some level 2 characters but some players can be... reluctant to share their wands of CLW </blockquote><p>If they're reluctant to share with someone who <i>could</i> get their own but isn't willing to spend the PP on it, that's very understandable. Each player is responsible for their own character.
<p>If they're reluctant to share with a "freshie" (all they have is their starting 150, with no completed scenarios), that's kind of a dick move.</p>Helaman wrote:This is a green table so there wont be a lot - there are some level 2 characters but some players can be... reluctant to share their wands of CLW
If they're reluctant to share with someone who could get their own but isn't willing to spend the PP on it, that's very understandable. Each player is responsible for their own character. If they're reluctant to share with a "freshie" (all they have is their starting 150, with no completed scenarios), that's kind of a dick move.Jiggy (RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32)2012-03-30T13:40:38ZRe: Forums: Pathfinder Society: What to do when your table is all non-healersHelamanhttps://paizo.com/threads/rzs2nv22?What-to-do-when-your-table-is-all-nonhealers#102012-03-30T13:40:22Z2012-03-30T13:40:22Z<p>1st session.. no wand for the green guy. I think I MAY have to wait to get him in play. The table mix is just asking for a character death... My Sam/Magus may be the best fit</p>1st session.. no wand for the green guy. I think I MAY have to wait to get him in play. The table mix is just asking for a character death... My Sam/Magus may be the best fitHelaman2012-03-30T13:40:22Z