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The shooting in Florida


Off-Topic Discussions

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Did anyone else note that it took forever for the media to acknowledge that Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is?
That the little child in Trayvon Martin's picture is not a current picture of him?
And that the media chose a picture of Zimmerman wearing prison orange?

Regardless of who is guilty (and we won't know that until the trial, the fact is that none of us knows all the available evidence), it seems to me that the media was trying to slant the story in one direction (albeit covertly) from day one.


The media is trying to slant the story, but so are the cops. I will be glad when this thing goes to trial.


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What trial?
Unless something has changed today, there has been no arrest, no charges pressed. No crime.
Without media pressure, slanted or not, it's quite possible there never would have been.


thejeff wrote:

What trial?

Unless something has changed today, there has been no arrest, no charges pressed. No crime.
Without media pressure, slanted or not, it's quite possible there never would have been.

This is one of the problems with the way the media has been handling the situation. It has created a lot of misinformation.

The grand jury is scheduled for April 10th. At that time, a decision will be made as to whether there will be a trial.
Given the political heat surrounding this case, I'll bet money that there will be a trial. If Zimmerman is innocent, it will be better for him to be proven so in a court of law. Of course, the Martins want a trial so that, if he's guilty, he will be punished.


Regardless of how the cops handled the situation (and I agree that they bungled it, for example, Zimmerman would have been in a better position legally if they had made him get medical care for the alleged beat down he received), what I want to focus on is how the media handled the situation.

From day one, they were pushing the metanarrative of "white racist shoots poor innocent child as child clutches candy".

Of course, Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is. Martin was not a child at the time of the shooting. What the media has done is reenforced the notion that whites are racist. What's the problem with that? Check this article out.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/are-we-born-racist/201011/racism-agains t-whites-the-overlooked-phenomenon

Qadira

Darkwing Duck wrote:

Did anyone else note that it took forever for the media to acknowledge that Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is?

I was not aware that being white was a prerequisite to be a racist.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Shadowborn wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:

Did anyone else note that it took forever for the media to acknowledge that Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is?

I was not aware that being white was a prerequisite to be a racist.

???

Who said it was?

Qadira

Well, that seems to be the argument of Zimmerman's father. He himself made that statement: "My son can't be racist. He's half Latino." Just because the media didn't make mention of his Latino heritage doesn't rule out the possibility that the man could be a racist, though they'll need to get experts to work on the 911 recording before that supposed racial slur can actually be considered evidence. It's one of those things that if you're told he said something, you'll hear him say it if you listen long enough.

In any event, the handling of the incident by the police was badly bungled. Enough that the police chief decided to go on vacation to avoid the heat. Hopefully a full investigation leads to some clear answers and a resolution to the matter.


thejeff wrote:

What trial?

Unless something has changed today, there has been no arrest, no charges pressed. No crime.
Without media pressure, slanted or not, it's quite possible there never would have been.

I never said one has been announced, but the investigation is being redone, and with Zimmerman's stories of a broken nose, among other things not being substantiated it looks like he will have to go to trial.

The surveillance video shown on ABC showed him with not injuries to his face. With him not going to the hospital to get anything documented that also did not help.

All we know for a fact is that he followed someone, and that person is dead.


And saying "no more white than Obama is" is nonsense.
It's true in a genetic, parentage sense, but not in the way racial politics and racism works in this country.

Zimmerman could pass for white. Witness the media reports that included pictures and still left the impression he was white, even if they didn't actually say so.

Obama couldn't.

You don't get to pick which part of your heritage to choose when everyone who looks at you chooses one for you.


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When you are armed and follow someone, and that person ends up dead it is hard to claim self defense. I would think the person being followed would be allowed to 'stand their ground".

Even looking past the race issue, I would hate to think that you can follow someone, kill them, and get off because the only witness is dead. I am not saying that is what happened, but with the way this law seems to work, that is a likely outcome. That is a bad precedent to set, and with it becoming public knowledge that it is legal, even if it is against the spirit of the law....


Darkwing Duck wrote:
thejeff wrote:

What trial?

Unless something has changed today, there has been no arrest, no charges pressed. No crime.
Without media pressure, slanted or not, it's quite possible there never would have been.

This is one of the problems with the way the media has been handling the situation. It has created a lot of misinformation.

The grand jury is scheduled for April 10th. At that time, a decision will be made as to whether there will be a trial.

Was that grand jury scheduled before the media blitz and the public pressure?

It looks like the grand jury was announced on the 20th, after the FBI and Civil Rights division started their own investigations. I believe that was well after it hit the media.

So again, would this have happened without the media pressure? Not possible to know for sure, but I don't see any evidence that it would.

And actually, there are some reports today that charges may be filed before the grand jury convenes.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
thejeff wrote:
You don't get to pick which part of your heritage to choose when everyone who looks at you chooses one for you.

Very true! And there are a heck of a lot of stone cold racists who want to label him a white guy!


Darkwing Duck wrote:


Of course, Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is. Martin was not a child at the time of the shooting. What the media has done is reenforced the notion that whites are racist. What's the problem with that? Check this article out.

Martin was 17, AFAIC. Not a little kid, but not an adult either.

Child is accurate, if perhaps misleading. I haven't paid enough attention to the mass media coverage to say whether they referred his actual age enough or gave the impression he was younger.

I certainly never had that impression.


Shifty wrote:
thejeff wrote:
You don't get to pick which part of your heritage to choose when everyone who looks at you chooses one for you.
Very true! And there are a heck of a lot of stone cold racists who want to label him a white guy!

Huh? Label who? Obama? Or Zimmerman?

I suppose I could see racists wanting to claim Zimmerman as one of their own. Obama, I can't even imagine someone that f+*+ed up.


Nah as in there are a lot of people that want him to be a white guy shooting a black kid so they can have a clean vent of manufactured outrage about oppression and racism prevalent in society. If it just turns out he is a nutter from another minority group... not so sexy.


Shifty wrote:
Nah as in there are a lot of people that want him to be a white guy shooting a black kid so they can have a clean vent of manufactured outrage about oppression and racism prevalent in society. If it just turns out he is a nutter from another minority group... not so sexy.

I wouldn't call that stone cold racism.

More fitting the narrative into existing patterns.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:
thejeff wrote:

What trial?

Unless something has changed today, there has been no arrest, no charges pressed. No crime.
Without media pressure, slanted or not, it's quite possible there never would have been.

I never said one has been announced, but the investigation is being redone, and with Zimmerman's stories of a broken nose, among other things not being substantiated it looks like he will have to go to trial.

The surveillance video shown on ABC showed him with not injuries to his face. With him not going to the hospital to get anything documented that also did not help.

All we know for a fact is that he followed someone, and that person is dead.

To be fair, the video isn't exactly clear. He had no blood on him, but he was allegedly cleaned up at the site. Further, the police officer was clearly looking at something on the back of his head.


thejeff wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:


Of course, Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is. Martin was not a child at the time of the shooting. What the media has done is reenforced the notion that whites are racist. What's the problem with that? Check this article out.

Martin was 17, AFAIC. Not a little kid, but not an adult either.

Child is accurate, if perhaps misleading. I haven't paid enough attention to the mass media coverage to say whether they referred his actual age enough or gave the impression he was younger.

I certainly never had that impression.

It'd be difficult if not impossible to look at this picture

http://cdn1.newsone.com/files/2012/03/Trayvon_Martin-300x217.jpg

and not get the impression that Trayvon was a child.


I don't think it matters what race Zimmerman would be counted as. Many people are not seeing it as a white guy shot a black guy. They are seeing it as a black kid got killed and the cops tried to cover it up. It does not help that in that area there have been race related issues before. The guy that stepped down as police chief was brought in to help things before they boiled over.


thejeff wrote:

And saying "no more white than Obama is" is nonsense.

It's true in a genetic, parentage sense, but not in the way racial politics and racism works in this country.

Zimmerman could pass for white. Witness the media reports that included pictures and still left the impression he was white, even if they didn't actually say so.

Obama couldn't.

You don't get to pick which part of your heritage to choose when everyone who looks at you chooses one for you.

The picture of him that everyone has seen certainly makes him look white, doesn't it?

This one of him (which is current, as opposed to the one everyone has seen), however, looks more hispanic

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-psPGhaeYEbE/T3LLqGqFoKI/AAAAAAAACTI/QZ7P xBYJNP8/s0/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin.jpg


Darkwing Duck wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:


Of course, Zimmerman is no more white than Obama is. Martin was not a child at the time of the shooting. What the media has done is reenforced the notion that whites are racist. What's the problem with that? Check this article out.

Martin was 17, AFAIC. Not a little kid, but not an adult either.

Child is accurate, if perhaps misleading. I haven't paid enough attention to the mass media coverage to say whether they referred his actual age enough or gave the impression he was younger.

I certainly never had that impression.

It'd be difficult if not impossible to look at this picture

http://cdn1.newsone.com/files/2012/03/Trayvon_Martin-300x217.jpg

and not get the impression that Trayvon was a child.

His face does look young, but his age has never been a secret. I was surprised when I found out he was 6'2 or 6'3 about a week and 1/2 ago. I would have thought he was no more than 5'8 since his weight of 140ish pounds is so low for someone so tall.

Zimmerman has grown from 5'2 to 5'9 since I started to hear about this so it is also possible that 140 pounds is off for the kid also.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

If you need a gun to handle a 17 year old kid then you do not go chasing after one unless there is an imminent threat to someone's life.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:

Many people are not seeing it as a white guy shot a black guy.

I don't think that's true and I'm sure that if we were to do a poll, we'd find that most news paper articles on the situation (especially at the beginning when they could still hide his Hispanic roots) referred to his race (albeit incorrectly).


1 person marked this as a favorite.

First of all, media has portrayed both guys in different lights - there's not one way, either bad or good. So I've seen some with Zimmerman in an orange jumpsuit, others when he's in regular clothing, Trayvon with a closed smile, one that highlighted his gold-capped lower teeth - that's just the media being a$+@*&&s and trying to sell papers/page clicks.

As far as what happened, here's my take, which is probably pretty close, based on all the testimony that's been garnered.

Both guys are/were probably cool/decent guys. Trayvon lived the life of a teenager with some hiccups, Zimmerman was hoping he'd get into law enforcement somehow/eventually.

Zimmerman saw Trayvon, not as a race, but as a guy in his neighborhood that he didn't know, face hidden by his hoodie - and determined that was suspicious. He called it in (seemed he had a penchant for calling stuff in), and even though told he didn't have to follow, decided to.

Trayvon probably noticed someone was following him, ducked into cover (stealth check), and when he saw the guy going back to his SUV, confronted him.

Something like "Is there a problem? Well there is now" was tossed in there, and Trayvon punched Zimmerman, then started slamming his head into the ground.

My guess is Trayvon probably thought this guy wanted to jump him/steal/ who knows, and figured the safest play was to go head on. Would he have killed Zimmerman? I doubt it, giving his history. But I'm sure he wanted to teach this guy a lesson about following him. There is however the possibility that he saw that Zimmerman was strapped and felt that something more definite was in order.

Zimmerman meanwhile is getting his head slammed into the ground/road, has a bloody nose, is probably dazed and confused as hell, and goes to pure survival mode, pulls the gun out and fires a single shot. Pushes Trayvon off of him, stands up trying to figure out what happens, nudging the body some and realizing what has actually happened.

Note that several witnesses have come forth, hearing and witnessing the commotion, and police were on their way. They show up, check the injuries Zimmerman has, make note of it, and have medical personnel clean him up. They then cuff Zimmerman for questioning, and take him in. Trayvon's body is handled as is the norm for a homicide.

In the video from the garage/entrance to the police station (it's being bandied around everywhere), Zimmerman seems undamaged. Remember that he was cleaned up by the medical personnel on scene, and a little bit of time has passed. He gets questioned/procedured, and gets checked out the next day at a hospital.

Now with a legal overview - and remember I ain't no lawyer :) But don't listen to anyone talking about the "Stand Your Ground" - that really doesn't apply here. That was a statute mainly created to help homeowners protect their possessions after the hurricanes swept through Florida. Its intent was to allow people to defend their home or car from an attacker (aka armed looter), without having to consider the option of retreat. Many people believe it still is a solid statute, and a necessary one for the protection of family/household.

But this is more of a defense - self defense at that. So what Zimmerman will need to do is convince a jury that there was a reasonable belief that his life was in jeopardy, and that the only choice was to kill or be killed. It's hard to do that when you define someone as a kid with a pack of skittles, easier if you define him as someone beating your head against the ground with no end in sight. Trayvon was definitely the first, but who knows if circumstances had turned him into the second.

And this is all assuming that the incident is taken to a judicial venue. It is quite possible that, despite all the public outcry, officials will decide that this is a definite case of self-defense and decline to prosecute.

My guess is that the officials will side with caution and allow a jury to interpret the facts. Then I would expect Zimmerman will take a lesser plea, and probably relocate far away.

TLDR? Probably two decent guys got in a fight, and two lives were destroyed by it.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:


His face does look young, but his age has never been a secret.

Most people are going to remember the picture more than the words.


Attrition wrote:

First of all, media has portrayed both guys in different lights - there's not one way, either bad or good. So I've seen some with Zimmerman in an orange jumpsuit, others when he's in regular clothing, Trayvon with a closed smile, one that highlighted his gold-capped lower teeth - that's just the media being a~*%!$+s and trying to sell papers/page clicks.

As far as what happened, here's my take, which is probably pretty close, based on all the testimony that's been garnered.

Both guys are/were probably cool/decent guys. Trayvon lived the life of a teenager with some hiccups, Zimmerman was hoping he'd get into law enforcement somehow/eventually.

Zimmerman saw Trayvon, not as a race, but as a guy in his neighborhood that he didn't know, face hidden by his hoodie - and determined that was suspicious. He called it in (seemed he had a penchant for calling stuff in), and even though told he didn't have to follow, decided to.

Trayvon probably noticed someone was following him, ducked into cover (stealth check), and when he saw the guy going back to his SUV, confronted him.

Something like "Is there a problem? Well there is now" was tossed in there, and Trayvon punched Zimmerman, then started slamming his head into the ground.

My guess is Trayvon probably thought this guy wanted to jump him/steal/ who knows, and figured the safest play was to go head on. Would he have killed Zimmerman? I doubt it, giving his history. But I'm sure he wanted to teach this guy a lesson about following him. There is however the possibility that he saw that Zimmerman was strapped and felt that something more definite was in order.

Zimmerman meanwhile is getting his head slammed into the ground/road, has a bloody nose, is probably dazed and confused as hell, and goes to pure survival mode, pulls the gun out and fires a single shot. Pushes Trayvon off of him, stands up trying to figure out what happens, nudging the body some and realizing what has actually happened.

Note that several witnesses have come forth, hearing and...

That's pretty near exactly my view on it too.


Darkwing Duck wrote:
Obo the all seeing. wrote:

Many people are not seeing it as a white guy shot a black guy.

I don't think that's true and I'm sure that if we were to do a poll, we'd find that most news paper articles on the situation (especially at the beginning when they could still hide his Hispanic roots) referred to his race (albeit incorrectly).

I am not saying nobody looked at it that way before. What I am saying is that saying it was a Latino, and not a white guy did not ease any tension.


thejeff wrote:
Shifty wrote:
Nah as in there are a lot of people that want him to be a white guy shooting a black kid so they can have a clean vent of manufactured outrage about oppression and racism prevalent in society. If it just turns out he is a nutter from another minority group... not so sexy.

I wouldn't call that stone cold racism.

More fitting the narrative into existing patterns.

To be more accurate, fitting the incident into the existing narratives.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
Obo the all seeing. wrote:

Many people are not seeing it as a white guy shot a black guy.

I don't think that's true and I'm sure that if we were to do a poll, we'd find that most news paper articles on the situation (especially at the beginning when they could still hide his Hispanic roots) referred to his race (albeit incorrectly).
I am not saying nobody looked at it that way before. What I am saying is that saying it was a Latino, and not a white guy did not ease any tension.

It didn't ease any tension, but it had already reenforced the metanarrative of "white racist kills black child".


thejeff wrote:


I wouldn't call that stone cold racism.
More fitting the narrative into existing patterns.

I would.

'Fitting the narrative into existing patterns' is pretty poor form, wishing a story were true so one can justify their blatant racism under the (self-manufactured) justification of 'oppression' is pretty disgusting behaviour. Like I mean, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story huh?

On that note, Spike Lee, I'm looking at you.

People also love the whiff of scandal of 'police cover up', because that just makes it even better when its 'The Man' doing a bit of oppressing too.

Amazing how some nice lovable kid walking down the street doing 100% nothing wrong and minding his own business, off to do his homework at grandmas house was taken by surprise doing nothing and shot for no reason by this guy... any assertions he may have actually hit Zimmerman were clearly false and made up. The Police must be lying because the kid was an angel who helped little old ladies n stuff.


Shifty wrote:
thejeff wrote:


I wouldn't call that stone cold racism.
More fitting the narrative into existing patterns.

I would.

'Fitting the narrative into existing patterns' is pretty poor form, wishing a story were true so one can justify their blatant racism under the (self-manufactured) justification of 'oppression' is pretty disgusting behaviour. Like I mean, don't let the truth get in the way of a good story huh?

On that note, Spike Lee, I'm looking at you.

People also love the whiff of scandal of 'police cover up', because that just makes it even better when its 'The Man' doing a bit of oppressing too.

Amazing how some nice lovable kid walking down the street doing 100% nothing wrong and minding his own business, off to do his homework at grandmas house was taken by surprise doing nothing and shot for no reason by this guy... any assertions he may have actually hit Zimmerman were clearly false and made up. The Police must be lying because the kid was an angel who helped little old ladies n stuff.

"More fitting the narrative into existing patterns. " Is pretty much what racists tell themselves.


Supposedly a more up-to-date representation of each. I find the reactions across the country surrounding the incident completely hilarious; the moron, Spike Lee, even distributed the wrong address on twitter.com in an attempt to incite violence. Earth--or at least the U.S.--seriously needs an alien invasion if only to get everyone to work towards a common goal.


Necromancer wrote:
Supposedly a more up-to-date representation of each. I find the reactions across the country surrounding the incident completely hilarious; the moron, Spike Lee, even distributed the wrong address on twitter.com in an attempt to incite violence. Earth--or at least the U.S.--seriously needs an alien invasion if only to get everyone to work towards a common goal.

I just started seeing that picture in the last couple of days. I'd guess that most people are more familiar with the "county orange" and "child" pictures.


Darkwing Duck wrote:
Obo the all seeing. wrote:


His face does look young, but his age has never been a secret.
Most people are going to remember the picture more than the words.

I have yet to seen him not mentioned as 17 every time the case(not trial case) is on tv. I doubt the average person's selective memory is that bad, but then again it is possible that everyone is not seeing the same news feeds I am.


Darkwing Duck wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Supposedly a more up-to-date representation of each. I find the reactions across the country surrounding the incident completely hilarious; the moron, Spike Lee, even distributed the wrong address on twitter.com in an attempt to incite violence. Earth--or at least the U.S.--seriously needs an alien invasion if only to get everyone to work towards a common goal.
I just started seeing that picture in the last couple of days. I'd guess that most people are more familiar with the "county orange" and "child" pictures.

That picture of Trayvon is not even the same kid. It is someone else with the same name.


Putting Zimmerman in orange was a bad move though.
On that note the media has a habit of changing the lighting or showing selective pictures based on what they want you to believe.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
Obo the all seeing. wrote:


His face does look young, but his age has never been a secret.
Most people are going to remember the picture more than the words.
I have yet to seen him not mentioned as 17 every time the case(not trial case) is on tv. I doubt the average person's selective memory is that bad, but then again it is possible that everyone is not seeing the same news feeds I am.

Again, most people are going to remember the picture more than the words.

That's not just about this case. Its a truism in advertising. You could have a story about a 12 year old white girl with blonde ponytail and her receiving a kitten for her birthday by her loving parents and if you put it next to a picture of a house on fire, guess what the person seeing it is going to remember most?


That is not a good comparison. If you show me a bird, and a lion killing a person I will remember the mountain lion killing the person because it is far from the norm, and things outside of the norm are easier to remember.

If you show me a picture of an overdeveloped 12 year old girl, but mention that she is 12, and some dude went to jail for statutory rape I will remember that she is actually 12. The fact that she looked like an adult should not matter.

I am not saying everyone will pay attention to his age, since a lot of people have selective hearing, but the actual age should be remembered. It has not been difficult for most people I know, and not all of them are above average intelligence. I don't think the average american is as easily fooled as some think. I just think there are enough that are easily fooled that the media still thinks it is a good idea to pull the stunts they pull. It also does not help that many people never check facts, even when they can.


Maybe I'm stupid, or a little slow. But it seems everyone's missing the main point. Adult male following a 17yr old kid. The kid does'nt know him. The dispatcher tells the adult that itis'nt necessary to follow. If I'm the kid, I'm preparing to defend myself from what? Child molester, robber,etc.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Supposedly a more up-to-date representation of each. I find the reactions across the country surrounding the incident completely hilarious; the moron, Spike Lee, even distributed the wrong address on twitter.com in an attempt to incite violence. Earth--or at least the U.S.--seriously needs an alien invasion if only to get everyone to work towards a common goal.
I just started seeing that picture in the last couple of days. I'd guess that most people are more familiar with the "county orange" and "child" pictures.
That picture of Trayvon is not even the same kid. It is someone else with the same name.

Who looks exactly like him? Parents can clean up social networking account profiles easily. This (and a personal morbid curiosity) is why I want post-mortem photos of homicide victims made public.


Necromancer wrote:
Obo the all seeing. wrote:
Darkwing Duck wrote:
Necromancer wrote:
Supposedly a more up-to-date representation of each. I find the reactions across the country surrounding the incident completely hilarious; the moron, Spike Lee, even distributed the wrong address on twitter.com in an attempt to incite violence. Earth--or at least the U.S.--seriously needs an alien invasion if only to get everyone to work towards a common goal.
I just started seeing that picture in the last couple of days. I'd guess that most people are more familiar with the "county orange" and "child" pictures.
That picture of Trayvon is not even the same kid. It is someone else with the same name.
Who looks exactly like him? Parents can clean up social networking account profiles easily. This (and a personal morbid curiosity) is why I want post-mortem photos of homicide victims made public.

Exactly like him? Other being black and skinny anyone can tell it is not him despite the fact that the picture is not clear.

Washington Post

These two kid look alike, really?

Another comparison and a blurry pic that is obviously not him. That fake Trayvon is from Georgia.

Shadow Lodge

Lets apply the stand your ground law to the victim. (stand your ground is out in public, castle doctrine is your house)

He is in a place where he has every right to be.

He is being followed by a suspicious stranger.

Under Florida law Trayvon Martin has every right to stop and confront his pursuer and pound him.


Now that I think about I can't find one credible new organization that is taking credit for trying to say they verified the fake pictures. They all come from random internet sites, not places like the Washington posts or CNN that can say the pics are valid, and if a "cleanup" was in progress the pic* at the bottom of the last link, which is real would not have been found.

edit:*It definitely is not showing him in a positive light.


Attrition wrote:
Zimmerman saw Trayvon, not as a race, but as a guy in his neighborhood that he didn't know, face hidden by his hoodie - and determined that was suspicious.

Considering what he muttered, I sincerely doubt this.


BigNorseWolf wrote:

Under Florida law Trayvon Martin has every right to stop and confront his pursuer and pound him.

Are you seriously saying there is a law that states you can bash a person on the basis that you simply suspect they may be following you?


Shifty wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Under Florida law Trayvon Martin has every right to stop and confront his pursuer and pound him.

Are you seriously saying there is a law that states you can bash a person on the basis that you simply suspect they may be following you?

The way SYG is written, if you feel your life is in danger, you have the right to confront, as opposed to the responsibility to flee.


Obo the all seeing. wrote:

Exactly like him? Other being black and skinny anyone can tell it is not him despite the fact that the picture is not clear.

Washington Post

These two kid look alike, really?

Another comparison and a blurry pic that is obviously not him. That fake Trayvon is from Georgia.

I still have my doubts. Both of these links were found through the above links.

Shadow Lodge

Shifty wrote:
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Under Florida law Trayvon Martin has every right to stop and confront his pursuer and pound him.

Are you seriously saying there is a law that states you can bash a person on the basis that you simply suspect they may be following you?

If you can reasonably believe that you are in danger then you can.

If someone is running after me (and he's sounds like he is in the 9 11 call), its pretty reasonable to assume that they mean me harm.

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.

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