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Haunted archer Oracle question?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

By RAW, does pulling arrows/bolts/sling or firearm bullets from their respective quivers or pouches count as "retrieving a stored item" for purposes of the haunted oracle's curse?

Liberty's Edge

Arutema wrote:
By RAW, does pulling arrows/bolts/sling or firearm bullets from their respective quivers or pouches count as "retrieving a stored item" for purposes of the haunted oracle's curse?

I don't believe there's an official answer to that. I mean, according to James Jacobs, no, you can still draw them freely. But his rulings on mechanical issues are very much not official, so there's no official response per se.


No problem.

"Retrieving a stored item from your gear" is different from "drawing a weapon" and "drawing ammunition". This curse is actually going to hurt more at higher levels, when you want to use an arsenal of rods.


I believe drawing arrows (and other ammunition) counts as retrieving a stored item. Without this, the "curse" becomes a lot less annoying to get around, especially if you can summon a really good weapon via the Ancestor mystery -- you can choose a bow as your ancestral weapon.

So, you are a haunted archer ... but you never need to waste a standard action drawing your bow because you can just summon one ... and you can draw as many arrows as you want without penalty, too.

So ... exactly how bad was this curse for you? You've found a way around it in combat for the purpose of weapons.

What if you own a handy haversack? Would you also argue that you can draw items from IT as a move action, despite your curse? Because that would pretty much guarantee the "curse" has no effect on you at all, and in reality it's now more of a "get 6 spells for free" ability.

See where I'm going with this?

For the record, I play a CL 7 oracle of metal with the Haunted curse at present, and yes, I do NOT rely on bows & arrows because they're so damn slow.


Spell component pouches are not affected by the Haunted curse - that is official.

I would argue that they are similar enough to ammunition that it applies (partially because James Jacobs said it does. While I don't take the non-official developer's opinion as pure truth all the time, I definitely agree with this interpretation.

I have rolled up a Wind Oracle archer with the Haunted curse to be slotted in my group (replacing my current Paladin of Sarenrae). I can't wait to play it.

Lantern Lodge

From RAW: wrote:

Draw or Sheathe a Weapon

Drawing a weapon so that you can use it in combat, or putting it away so that you have a free hand, requires a move action. This action also applies to weapon-like objects carried in easy reach, such as wands. If your weapon or weapon-like object is stored in a pack or otherwise out of easy reach, treat this action as retrieving a stored item.

If you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you may draw a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move. If you have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, you can draw two light or one-handed weapons in the time it would normally take you to draw one.

Drawing ammunition for use with a ranged weapon (such as arrows, bolts, sling bullets, or shuriken) is a free action.

I've erratically bolded things that I think are critical to understanding this curse.

The action "retrieving a stored item" is reserved for things that you haven't made easily available. Basically anything in your pack/saddle bags. Where as holstered items like swords, wands, rods, potions, remain move actions as they are distinctly not "stored items."

Drawing Ammunition is also called out as distinct from "stored items" so is exempt from haunting.

The power of a Haversack isn't to reduce the drawing a stored item action to a move action (as it already is with a normal pack.) It reduces the time you might have to spend searching that enormous cavity of space that is your bag. (I believe that is supposed to be a std or maybe a full round action, I just can't find reference to it.)

So the curse has two effects, the most specific is when disarmed, your weapon is knocked away from you, no ambiguity there. The second effect is to keep you from getting out your stored items that might be of use, like a coil of rope, a scroll from a scroll case*, 10' pole (that you keep in your Roger Wilco backpack), grappling hook, pitons... etc. You basically eliminate the characters ability to be Macgyveresque with mundane equipment mid-combat.

It is not a crippling curse, it does introduce limitations and requires the player to be a little bit thoughtful. It also isn't the strongest curse, it grants 6 spells, 6 good spells yes, but they aren't to die for. It is really the curse for players who want to play a character who isn't strongly hindered as some of the other curses can be quite difficult.

*you may be able to stuff a scroll in your belt, but as a gm I might burn that up with a fireball, or spark cantrip, so your less inclined to keep your 20000gp scroll of resurrection crumpled up in your pocked for fast access.


Dumb Paladin wrote:
I believe drawing arrows (and other ammunition) counts as retrieving a stored item.

If drawing an arrow is retrieving a stored item, then it takes a move action for a non-haunted person to draw them.

Since this is clearly not the case, drawing ammunition is not the same as retrieving a stored item, so the Haunted curse does not apply.

Galnörag wrote:
The power of a Haversack isn't to reduce the drawing a stored item action to a move action (as it already is with a normal pack.) It reduces the time you might have to spend searching that enormous cavity of space that is your bag.

Handy Haversack: "Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does."

Lantern Lodge

Grick wrote:


Galnörag wrote:
The power of a Haversack isn't to reduce the drawing a stored item action to a move action (as it already is with a normal pack.) It reduces the time you might have to spend searching that enormous cavity of space that is your bag.
Handy Haversack: "Retrieving any specific item from a haversack is a move action, but it does not provoke the attacks of opportunity that retrieving a stored item usually does."

w/o Haversack

Retrieve Stored Items: Move Action, Provokes AO

w Haversack
Retrieve Stored Items: Move Action, No AO

Since the Move action never changes, then the bag isn't citing an exception to the standard rule, therefore the haunted curse's exception is overrules the general rule. He still avoids the AO, but it still takes time.

I found the rule reference I recalled, specifically the Bag of Holding

Quote:
Retrieving a specific item from a bag of holding is a move action, unless the bag contains more than an ordinary backpack would hold, in which case retrieving a specific item is a full-round action. Magic items placed inside the bag do not offer any benefit to the character carrying the bag.

I think the "move action" rule reference in haversack is to clear delineate it from the bigger but less convenient bag of holding.

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