Goblin Squad Member
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It is stated when a character dies they leave behind the body and anyone can loot the body. They will get something random but everything else is gone.
I have seen in other games the harvest or craft grief gangs. Basically kill a harvester or crafter. The killer is insta-killed, but someone nearby loots the body instantly (not allowing the original person time to recover.)
Will there be penalties for this? Even if the loot is random, making someone lose a bunch of crafted or harvested stuff is fun for griefers.
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Goblin Squad Member
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With the current information, there is no penalty for looting a corpse.
Being in a party with a person that becomes a criminal makes you a criminal.
I would like to see 'loot rules' for every encounter in the game, giving players/groups an opportunity to clear the area and prevent ninja-looting. Most games have a function like this where you have xx amount of time to get it for your self, and after that time the husk stays in the world for xx amount of time where anyone can loot it, then it disappears forever.
I like the idea of only the person who died or the person who killed the person who died get to loot the husk (maybe with a limit of 5 minutes). After that, anyone can loot the husk.
Or...
In Eve, if someone blows up a pirate ship (PvE) they can loot the ship no problem, but other players cannot loot the ship without it flagging them as a criminal for the player who "owned" the wreckage. If you made it so players who loot a husk of a player that isn't in their group (a party member who would probably be better off just guarding the husk until the player who died gets back to it) gets flagged as a criminal and a bounty can be placed on them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would say, that npc Marshals should guard a husk they come across it on a patrol, and flag anyone as a criminal then kill them if they try to loot the husk. They would leave if the husk is destroyed, or after a certain amount of time. I would say 'rifling through the pockets of a dead persons body' would be against the law in the safe zones, the only attackable(lawfully) npc people in a safe zone should be hostile towards the zone's controller, so it would be ok to 'loot' them.
I still want a ~5minute freeze on the husk if killed in combat, where only the killer(some NPC's could loot your husk, circulating items into the game, with a 100% chance to get your stuff back if you find the npc that stole from you) or yourself can loot the corpse, then it's free game for another 5 minutes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The assumption that someone can be insta-killed is likely not going to be supported. The various discussions here and hints from the blogs/etc have lead me to believe that only a very large group of players will have the ability to do something approximate to a one-shot.
It also bears pointing out that the term greifer is being applied to what very well could be an average run of the mill PvP encounter. The distinction really relies on location, If in an area close a lawful settlement, or the surrounding areas that are patrolled by Marshals, then a bounty can be applied if someone (or a party) kills you. If you're in the wild, and a large group descends on you while you gather solo, that's just the risks you take in going out deep with no back up.
To me the term griefing has always implied not just a single kill, but a malicious intent to ruin someone else's fun. In some of the more established MMOs that means going to a lowbie zone and finding a bunch of people to kill, and then keep killing them, and all the NPCs they need to complete quests, and so on. This has in some cases forced the developers to sort of push an arms race between the gear/abilities they give the players and the NPCs they use to protect the lower level players. In PFO, its unlikely this scenario will be allowed to evolve.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Griefing is when some one is purposely making you unable to play or enjoy the game for an amount of time that is not in the norm. Say I come across Valkenr and he is half dead from fighting a mob, I decide WTH, I kill him. Thats not griefing. If he gets back in less time it takes me to recover and move on and I end up killing him again, this is not griefing. Now, if i make it a point and hang around just to continually kill him, that is considered griefing. Now what Valknenr doesnt know is that my hideout is nearby and I am trying to keep him from descovering it, if he doesn't leave the area, I will kill him again, not griefing. Now me, being the nice person I am, I would tell him, go away or die again and give him a chance to. I am not a griefer, but if I am protecting something and you continually threaten it, knowingly or unknowingly, I will keep on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Scarlette, you're absolutely right. Defending your territory, whether or not your "victim" understands what you're doing, is not griefing. This is actually somewhat related to something I've said elsewhere that I think a lot of the PvP encounters will be for control of territory (even if it's just the plot of land that caravan is sitting on), rather than focusing on killing your foes.
One of the reasons griefing has been so difficult to combat with automated tools is because it's not really a function of detectable behavior, it's a judgment made by human beings, and many of us will make different judgments based on the different information we have access to at the time. Ultimately, it will boil down to Might Makes Right. If 50 Friends of Valkenr descend on your general area, destroy your Hideout, and kill you (until you stop coming back), all because you were "griefing Valkenr", well then, the History Books will probably say that you were "griefing Valkenr".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well darn you Valkenr and your 50 friends. I am on may way to Tony's. We will probably here you fell off a cliff in a couple days. Very unlucky coincident.
J/K..
@Nihimon, it is a judgement call made by the person who was killed. The problem I see is poeple <in gerenal, no one specific> are already crying wolf, or will be thier first trip out of town and some one kills them. Wait and see, there will be balancing forces to the thugs and bandits that roam the woods.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The problem I see is poeple <in gerenal, no one specific> are already crying wolf, or will be thier first trip out of town and some one kills them.
I hope I maintain enough equilibrium to avoid that trap, myself. I've certainly fallen into it in the past - feeling personally offended when someone chose to kill me for no apparent reason.
I think I'll try to avoid getting killed in PFO by making it costly to try to kill me :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Just stick to the safe areas. Otherwise, make strong allies. Make the penalties for griefing in lawful areas seem like a trifle next to what will happen if someone bothers you. Oh, and take plenty of screenshots to shame griefers as much as you can. If they don't let you post stuff like that on the official forums, don't worry - every game like that ends up with unofficial forums where names are regularly dragged through the mud.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Just stick to the safe areas. Otherwise, make strong allies. Make the penalties for griefing in lawful areas seem like a trifle next to what will happen if someone bothers you. Oh, and take plenty of screenshots to shame griefers as much as you can. If they don't let you post stuff like that on the official forums, don't worry - every game like that ends up with unofficial forums where names are regularly dragged through the mud.
Hey! The Chorus of Mysteries is not the place for petty slander and sly innuendo! It is for the collection and distribution of factual information, such as the number and nature, location, and instigator of confirmed gankings. Also, sly slander and some petty innuendo, if you can put it in the subtext of an academic style description.
