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Spell Perfection clarification


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

"Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one
metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its
level or casting time, as long as the total modified level
of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level."

As I understand I can apply 1 metamagic feat, say quickened hold monster, and it will still be a level 5 spell, and I havent violated the rule of being above spell level 9th.
Can I then apply another metamagic feat to the spell, say persistent, and cast as a 7th lvl spell as a full round action?


Yes.


I don't understand your question.

If you are asking if you can apply both quickened and persistent to hold monster and cast it as a 7th level spell, then no because the total modified spell level would be 11 (add up the levels before using spell perfection).

If you are asking if you can cast persistent hold monster as a 7th level spell even though you have spell perfection in that spell the answer is yes.


Ok, I understood it as it allowed you to apply meta magic to a lvl 9 spell, meaning that one meta magic did not count. Thanks for the clarification.


Hmm actually I dont agree:

Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.

I read it as you can use 1 metamagic feat with no lvl increase, as long as total level stays below 9. So you could take Time Stop and Quicken, but not Time Stop, Quicken, and Silent Spell.

Si?


Pretty sure the intent is just to give you a free metamagic, not to let you stack metamagic out the wazoo.

Liberty's Edge

With Spell Perfection, you could apply Quicken to any 5th level or lower spell (for which you have the feat). For example, Quickened Fire Snake could be cast as a 5th level spell using Spell Perfection (Fire Snake).

It's not entirely clear, but my interpretation is that you could then apply other metamagic feats to the spell, but you would raise the spell level. So, someone with Spell Perfection could cast an Empowered and Quickened Fire Snake using a 7th level spell slot (Quickened would be free). Admittedly, my interpretation is based on the assumption that the "total modified level of the spell" refers to the original spell with the free metamagic feat applied.

You couldn't apply Quicken to a 6th level spell, such as Greater Dispel Magic unless you also had the trait Magical Lineage (Greater Dispel Magic), in addition to Spell Perfection (Greater Dispel Magic), since that trait treats the final, adjusted level of the spell as 9th, instead of 10th level.

Just my interpretation. YMMV.


My previous answer was correct. You can do it. Spell perfection makes it so that one metamagic feat does not even count.


concerro wrote:
My previous answer was correct. You can do it. Spell perfection makes it so that one metamagic feat does not even count.

Is there a source for this?


BEGS wrote:
concerro wrote:
My previous answer was correct. You can do it. Spell perfection makes it so that one metamagic feat does not even count.
Is there a source for this?

The RAW itself. The total modified level never goes about 9th level because the first line in the feat says the one metamagic feat never affects the level of the spell. Other metamagic feats are counted however by the general rules.

I guess it is always possible that the devs wrote it badly but it works, and the this feat has been used in combos on the boards before. Nobody has objected to it until now.

In short everyone(99%) of the people here read it like I do so if the devs did not intend for it to work that way they need to rewrite it.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My reading of it would say all metamagic is applied for 'counting' and checked against the 'not adjusted above 9th level' total. A quickened 9th level spell would be a 13th equivalent and so would not work.

Just my 2cp.


That may be the case, but a lot of people are not reading it that way, even though I do admit that might have been the intent.

The issue is the first line saying the feat does not count. There should have been a second line saying the feat does count for ........, if that is the case.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If it was not a factor, then the not above 9th level line would be redundant and not need to be included at all?

Just food for thought, i wished to share my interpretation to the OP. Thanks for the feedback. ;)


Maybe it is a limiter so you can't stack it with another similar ability if one is created later to keep max spell levels in check.

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