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Ruby Phoenix Tournament and Eyes of the Ten arc


Pathfinder Society® General Discussion

Andoran

2 people marked this as a favorite.

I am hoping to receive a ruling or clarification regarding my situation. Would Michael Brock, Mark Moreland, Sean K. Reynolds, or anyone else in a position to officially rule on this, please respond?

My level 11 monk advanced to level 12 (33 xp) by playing the Season 2 special Year of the Shadow Lodge on 2/18/2012. On 3/3/2012, I played him at slow advancement in the Ruby Phoenix Tournament sanctioned module. He is currently at 34.5 xp as a result of the slow advancement. Per the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play version 4.1 (page 21):

"When playing the Tier 12 scenarios, characters receive XP, Prestige Points, and GP—halving each if they use the slow advancement track—as normal. While characters are generally restricted from playing beyond their tier (as explained in Chapter 7), should a PC reach 13th level during a multipart Tier 12 arc, she may play the final installments as a 13th-level character; this is the only exception to the normal tier restrictions."

I was led to believe I could play the Ruby Phoenix Tournament sanctioned module as a new level 12 at slow advancement (earning 1.5 xp instead of 3 xp), and still be eligible to play the Eyes of the Ten four-part level 12 retirement arc since my character is still level 12 to begin the arc. Based on the exception quoted above, I would be allowed to complete the arc at level 13, although I'm not sure at what point in the arc I would advance to said level.

Was the information I received correct? If not, what are my options, if any, at this point?

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Since you are doing slow advancement track, and if you continue to utilize slow track, there is no problem with starting and finishing Eyes of the Ten as you would start it at 12th level.

On a side note, Sean Reyonlds generally doesn't post on PFS boards, especially in PFS rulings, so Mark or I would be the ones to address your concerns.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

This is the part you are missing, and should answer your question.

PFS Guide Pg 21 wrote:
If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events.

So to play the Retirement Arc, you need to cut the EXP off at 33.

And According to Mike Here, you still get the Full gold and Fame from the Module.

Andoran *****

From what Ive heard EotT 1 gives 2Exp, while the other 3 parts give 1 each. If that is correct, you would hit level 13 after playing the first two parts, since that would give you the necessary 1.5exp you still need.

Andoran *****

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber
Michael Brock wrote:
Since you are doing slow advancement track, and if you continue to utilize slow track, there is no problem with starting and finishing Eyes of the Ten as you would start it at 12th level.

You may want to add that as a change to the Guide then, because according to what I just posted from the Guide, you need to have no more then 33 EXP.

Paizo Employee ** Developer

1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Dragnmoon wrote:
Michael Brock wrote:
Since you are doing slow advancement track, and if you continue to utilize slow track, there is no problem with starting and finishing Eyes of the Ten as you would start it at 12th level.
You may want to add that as a change to the Guide then, because according to what I just posted from the Guide, you need to have no more then 33 EXP.

We'll make note of this clarification for updating in the Guide. Thanks for pointing it out.

Andoran

Michael and Mark,

Thank you very much for the speedy replies and clarification. You just made my day.

Andoran

godsDMit wrote:
From what Ive heard EotT 1 gives 2Exp, while the other 3 parts give 1 each. If that is correct, you would hit level 13 after playing the first two parts, since that would give you the necessary 1.5exp you still need.

This raises another question. Since going from normal to slow advancement or vice versa can only be done at the start of a new level, and assuming the first two parts of the Eyes of the Ten arc award 3 xp (1.5 xp in my monk's case of slow advancement, taking him to exactly 36 xp/level 13), can I switch back to normal advancement at the start of the third part of the arc, finishing with a total of 38 xp? Or must I finish the entire arc using the same advancement method? Thanks again, and my apologies for coming up with this stuff.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Lem_Furryfeet wrote:
godsDMit wrote:
From what Ive heard EotT 1 gives 2Exp, while the other 3 parts give 1 each. If that is correct, you would hit level 13 after playing the first two parts, since that would give you the necessary 1.5exp you still need.
This raises another question. Since going from normal to slow advancement or vice versa can only be done at the start of a new level, and assuming the first two parts of the Eyes of the Ten arc award 3 xp (1.5 xp in my monk's case of slow advancement, taking him to exactly 36 xp/level 13), can I switch back to normal advancement at the start of the third part of the arc, finishing with a total of 38 xp? Or must I finish the entire arc using the same advancement method? Thanks again, and my apologies for coming up with this stuff.

As long as at no time during the Eyes of Ten, you are playing at 14th level, you are golden.

Grand Lodge **** Venture-Captain, Missouri—Kansas City aka Sir Ma'Layo

Thank you for clarifying.
This is for a game I was to run and my minions...errr... players, got around to asking the questions before I did.

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:
As long as at no time during the Eyes of Ten, you are playing at 14th level, you are golden.

Mike, thanks very much for the clarification.

Andoran

Michael and Mark, good morning. Seth Brummond (Venture-Captain, Missouri—Kansas City) ran/judged The Eyes of the Ten Parts I and II for our group this weekend. Both chronicles show 0 XP awarded, and now I am thoroughly confused.

I thought EotT Part I awarded 2 XP (at normal advancement; 1 XP at slow advancement) and EotT Part II awarded 1 XP (at normal advancement; 0.5 XP at slow advancement). This would take my level 12 monk, currently on slow advancement and at 34.5 XP after having played The Ruby Phoenix Tournament at slow advancement as a brand new level 12, to 36 XP and 13th level. At that point, I would switch back to normal advancement and earn 1 XP for each of the remaining two parts of EotT.

Would you please clarify exactly how much XP is awarded for each of the four parts? My group cannot play Parts III and IV until this is resolved, since I do not know if my monk should be advancing to level 13. Also, are there revised chronicles available for the EotT arc with added slow advancement information and corrected XP and Fame/Prestige awards? Thanks very much for your time and response.

Alex Bianchi

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

3 people marked this as a favorite.

Per the Organized Play Guide, p. 21:

If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond  33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/ events. 

When playing the Tier 12 scenarios, characters receive XP, Prestige Points, and GP—halving each if they use the slow advancement track—as normal. While characters are generally restricted from playing beyond their tier (as explained in Chapter 7), should a PC reach 13th level during a multipart Tier 12 arc, she may play the final installments as a 13th-level character; this is the only exception to the normal tier restrictions.

------------------------

If you played Ruby Phoenix Tournament at level 11, once you hit level 12, you would lose all xp you gained past 33. So, you lose the other 1.5 and start EoT with 33. If you played RPT at level 12 on slow advancement and now are starting EoT with 34.5, you can start EoT but would need to continue to play it on slow advancement. Thus, you would have 35.5 xps at the end of part 1, and would have 36xps at the end of part 2, advancing to level 13 for parts 3 and 4.

You receive 2 xps for part 1 and 1 xp for parts 2, 3, and 4 (or half of that if on slow advancement track). There are no updated Chronice sheets and no plans to update seasons 0, 1 or 2. It is why we explained the EoT in the Guide

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:

Per the Organized Play Guide, p. 21:

If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond  33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/ events. 

When playing the Tier 12 scenarios, characters receive XP, Prestige Points, and GP—halving each if they use the slow advancement track—as normal. While characters are generally restricted from playing beyond their tier (as explained in Chapter 7), should a PC reach 13th level during a multipart Tier 12 arc, she may play the final installments as a 13th-level character; this is the only exception to the normal tier restrictions.

------------------------

If you played Ruby Phoenix Tournament at level 11, once you hit level 12, you would lose all xp you gained past 33. So, you lose the other 1.5 and start EoT with 33. If you played RPT at level 12 on slow advancement and now are starting EoT with 34.5, you can start EoT but would need to continue to play it on slow advancement. Thus, you would have 35.5 xps at the end of part 1, and would have 36xps at the end of part 2, advancing to level 13 for parts 3 and 4.

You receive 2 xps for part 1 and 1 xp for parts 2, 3, and 4 (or half of that if on slow advancement track). There are no updated Chronice sheets and no plans to update seasons 0, 1 or 2. It is why we explained the EoT in the Guide

Michael, thanks for the information/clarification.

One last question: since my character just leveled to 13 after finishing EotT Part II, may I switch back to normal advancement for the final two parts, or am I required to play the entire arc at slow advancement since that is how I started with part I? I apologize in advance, having never played a four-part arc before. Since I know you can switch between slow and normal advancement when you gain a new level, I want to make sure that still applies in the middle of the four parts of EotT. Thanks again.

Paizo Employee ***** Global Organized Play Coordinator

Yes, you can switch back to normal advancement for the rest since you won't risk being 14 before you get through all of it.

Andoran

Michael Brock wrote:
Yes, you can switch back to normal advancement for the rest since you won't risk being 14 before you get through all of it.

Thank you very much, Michael. You have answered all our questions. Much appreciated, and I will let Seth know.

Andoran ***** Venture-Captain, Washington D.C. aka Thamius

Dragnmoon wrote:

This is the part you are missing, and should answer your question.

PFS Guide Pg 21 wrote:
If a character reaches level 12 by playing a sanctioned module, any XP beyond 33 points are lost prior to starting the Tier 12 scenarios/events.

So to play the Retirement Arc, you need to cut the EXP off at 33.

And According to Mike Here, you still get the Full gold and Fame from the Module.

Dragnmoon, for Lem_FurryFeet's situation this section of the PFS Guide is completely irrelevant. His character did not hit level 12 while playing the Ruby Phoenix Tournament module, he made it to level 12 and then played through the RPT module, choosing the slow track so that he could then also qualify for the full Eyes of the Ten arc. By choosing the slow track while in level 12 he only gets half gold, XP, and Fame for the RPT and EoT I and II.

Grand Lodge ***

Sorry to resurrect this thread but, I am a tad confused by this given the rewording in the 4.3 guide.

Michael Brock wrote:
As long as at no time during the Eyes of Ten, you are playing at 14th level, you are golden.

From the 4.3 Guide:

"To play a Seeker (Tier 12) story arc, the character must
start it with exactly 33 XP. If a character is used to play
an 11th-level module starting at 31 or 32 XP or a Tier 12+
special scenario at 12th level, thus ending the module
or special scenario with more than 33 XP, the character
receives full credit for the module or special scenario, but
may not play any part of a Seeker story arc (except for a few
grandfathered exceptions—see the Pathfinder Society
FAQ)."

I do not see anything about this in the FAQ (maybe I just missed it).

Here is my situation. I have several buddies that played Eyes of the Ten and wound up with 38xp (one shy of level 14). They were going to play Race for the Runecarved Key at a convention so that they could level to 14 before beginning Academy of Secrets.

I figured I would join them and do the reverse of what they had done (I was at 33 xp at the time), getting that last XP before playing Eyes of the Ten (thus winding up at 14 after the last part).

Now I am not so sure this will work since the wording says I cannot start Eyes of the Ten at 34 xp.

I would just like to verify that your quote about being ok as long as I dont hit level 14 at any time "while" playing Eyes of the Ten applies.

Grand Lodge ***

Firstly, I am assuming that the seeker story arc is Eyes of the Ten.

Before I played Race for the Runecarved Key, I explained this plan to my local Venture Captain and he indicated that it would work. But then the wording was changed in the Guide so the situation might have changed. I will be quite sad if I cannot play Eyes of the Ten completely now on that character.

Andoran *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

There were some grandfathered issues about all this.

I believe if you did what you said prior to October 26, 2012, then you should be ok (that is the date that Mike clarified on the public boards that you could not do any of the above anymore, and that we were simplifying things so they are easy to understand).

But without the official FAQ up, what I'm saying here is pretty much just speculation based on the public comments Mike made, so take it for whatever its worth.

It may be that Mike only wants to deal with the grandfathered issues on a case-by-case basis, so you might want to PM him about it.

Qadira ****

Good morning everyone, I have a question along these veins.

I played in EoT parts I and II at GenCon 2011. Table did not make for parts III and IV, and at that time, the XP were not awarded until after you finished, so Estragon was still sitting at 33 XP.

At GenCon 2012, Estragon played in Tier 12 Race for the Runecarved Key, earning 1 XP. Was that legal?

Can he still finish out EoT, or did I shoot myself in the foot?

If I apply the new ruling that EoT XP are awarded immediately, he is currently sitting at 33+2+1+1 = 37 XP, EoT Part III would leave him at 38 XP when he finished, and EoT Part IV would leave him at 39 XP (level 14) when he finished.

Also, I have another character who will hit 33 XP in two more scenarios (Grayson and his faithful warpig Ozzy!). Is there going to be another Seeker Arc similiar to Eyes of the Ten, or is future play for him going to have to come in the form of Modules and Specials?

Grand Lodge ***

I got the 34th xp on October 20, 2012 at CogCon in Rolla, Missouri. I will PM Mike then I suppose.

*****

Estragon al'Godot wrote:

Good morning everyone, I have a question along these veins.

I played in EoT parts I and II at GenCon 2011. Table did not make for parts III and IV, and at that time, the XP were not awarded until after you finished, so Estragon was still sitting at 33 XP.

At GenCon 2012, Estragon played in Tier 12 Race for the Runecarved Key, earning 1 XP. Was that legal?

Can he still finish out EoT, or did I shoot myself in the foot?

Once you began the Eyes of the Ten series your character was locked in until you finished all 4 parts, so you using the character between part 2 & 3 for Race wasn't legal.

Even if the chroncicles were withheld till you finished the entire series, it would of been similar to being locked into a multi-session event till you finished.

**

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I may have one of those "grandfathered" cases, but I don't know that I'd feel comfortable PMing Mike for clarification.

On 10/27/2012, I began play of Curse of the Riven Sky with 31 XP. Per the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play current at the time (Version 4.2), I gave up 1 XP, reduced my Fame and Prestige Points by 1 and my GP by 7,858. I then played Parts 1-3 of Eyes of the Ten the weekend of 11/08/2012 - 11/11/2012, beginning the arc at 12th Level with exactly 33 XP. I'm scheduled to play Part 4 and finish the arc this weekend.

Under the new 4.3 version of the Guide, I'd have earned the full 3 XP for Curse of the Riven Sky and, having 34 XP, been unable to play Eyes of the Ten, yes?

So, is my character illegal now? Is there something I need to do to fix this (much as one would do if an archetype or feat were made illegal for PFS play with a new release of the Guide) or is this one of those "grandfathered" cases and I'm good. It'd be nice to know before I play the final part of this arc with a potentially illegal character.

Paizo Employee ***** Pathfinder Society Campaign Coordinator

graypark wrote:

I may have one of those "grandfathered" cases, but I don't know that I'd feel comfortable PMing Mike for clarification.

On 10/27/2012, I began play of Curse of the Riven Sky with 31 XP. Per the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play current at the time (Version 4.2), I gave up 1 XP, reduced my Fame and Prestige Points by 1 and my GP by 7,858. I then played Parts 1-3 of Eyes of the Ten the weekend of 11/08/2012 - 11/11/2012, beginning the arc at 12th Level with exactly 33 XP. I'm scheduled to play Part 4 and finish the arc this weekend.

Under the new 4.3 version of the Guide, I'd have earned the full 3 XP for Curse of the Riven Sky and, having 34 XP, been unable to play Eyes of the Ten, yes?

So, is my character illegal now? Is there something I need to do to fix this (much as one would do if an archetype or feat were made illegal for PFS play with a new release of the Guide) or is this one of those "grandfathered" cases and I'm good. It'd be nice to know before I play the final part of this arc with a potentially illegal character.

Email sent.

Qadira ****

Well, this is truly the suxxorz.

What do I need to do? Am I now stuck unable to play a character I spent three years building AND unable to take another PC through a seeker arc? Can I vacate the 1 xp from runecarved key and continue playing the seeker arc? I don't think I ever really understood that starting the arc locked you in, particularly as it seemed virtually impossible at the time to play it unless you could travel to the Pacific Northwest or Atlanta to find a table. We weren't even able to get enough people to play it at Gencon.

In a small market, is it just unlikely that a character will ever get to play it?

Brian Lefebvre wrote:
Estragon al'Godot wrote:

Good morning everyone, I have a question along these veins.

I played in EoT parts I and II at GenCon 2011. Table did not make for parts III and IV, and at that time, the XP were not awarded until after you finished, so Estragon was still sitting at 33 XP.

At GenCon 2012, Estragon played in Tier 12 Race for the Runecarved Key, earning 1 XP. Was that legal?

Can he still finish out EoT, or did I shoot myself in the foot?

Once you began the Eyes of the Ten series your character was locked in until you finished all 4 parts, so you using the character between part 2 & 3 for Race wasn't legal.

Even if the chroncicles were withheld till you finished the entire series, it would of been similar to being locked into a multi-session event till you finished.

Qadira ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

Brian Lefebvre wrote:


Once you began the Eyes of the Ten series your character was locked in until you finished all 4 parts, so you using the character between part 2 & 3 for Race wasn't legal.

Brian, you may be right, but I've never heard this restriction before. I hope I'm not causing any offense by asking your source.

Andoran *****

Chris Mortika wrote:
Brian Lefebvre wrote:


Once you began the Eyes of the Ten series your character was locked in until you finished all 4 parts, so you using the character between part 2 & 3 for Race wasn't legal.
Brian, you may be right, but I've never heard this restriction before. I hope I'm not causing any offense by asking your source.

For all intents and purposes, until they opened up 12+ play, this was effectively the truth.

Osirion ****

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber
PFS Guide 4.3 wrote:
Once a character starts a Seeker story arc not be used in any other module or special scenario until she has completed the Seeker story arc.

I don't think that part is new.

Estragon - hopefully you'll get some guidance, but it seems the worst you would have to deal with is trashing the credit for Race for the Runecarved Key.

Shadow Lodge ****

Chris Mortika wrote:
Brian Lefebvre wrote:


Once you began the Eyes of the Ten series your character was locked in until you finished all 4 parts, so you using the character between part 2 & 3 for Race wasn't legal.
Brian, you may be right, but I've never heard this restriction before. I hope I'm not causing any offense by asking your source.

Here Mike and Mark both talk about not being able to play the Grand Convocation while in the midst of Eyes of the Ten. I do remember the lock in as well, but have not yet found explicit statements for that.

Cheliax ***

Guide 3.0.3 says "Once your 12th-level Pathfinder Society
character begins a Tier 12 story arc, you must play that
arc in chronological order, and you may not play another
story arc with that character. At the end of the arc, you
must retire the character, which removes her from normal
Pathfinder Society play."

However guide 4.2 lacked this text which was then reinstated with guide 4.3, I dont think anyone has ever suggested you could play EoTT out of order or with other sessions in between though, its always been said that you can never be level 14 at any stage even during the guide 4.1-4.2 era (which implies you cannot break off during the middle and do something else).

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