Wizard Conjuration (Teleportation) build advice please

[Zeiph67]

Wizard Conjuration(Teleportation) Specialist(Focused)
Prohibited Necromancy and Divination

Race - Elf
Alignment - N
Old age

Stats
Str 09 - 12 base, -3 old age
Dex 14 - 15 base, -3 old age, +2 racial
Con 10 - 15 base, -3 old age, -2 racial
Int 22 - 18 base, +2 old age, +2 racial
Wis 09 - 7 base, +2 old age
Cha 09 - 7 base, +2 old age

Stat ups all go into Int

Skills Fly, Knowledge(Arcana, Dungeoneering, Nature, Planes, and Religion), Linguistics, Perception, and Spellcraft

Familiar Bat

Feats
Wizard - Scribe Scroll
Lvl 1 - Improved Initiative
Lvl 3 - Spell Focus(Conjuration)
Lvl 5 - Augment Summoning
Wizard 5 - Extend Spell
Lvl 7 - Greater Spell Focus(Conjuration)
Lvl 9 - Superior Summoning
Wizard 10 - Craft Wondrous Item
Lvl 11 - Spell Penetration
Lvl 13 - Toughness
Lvl 15 - Quick Draw
Wizard 15 - Quicken Spell
Lvl 17 - Dodge
Lvl 19 - Greater Spell Penetration
Wizard 20 - Craft Magic Arms and Armor

Any advice would be much appreciated on the build.

[Reynard_the_fox]

Putting my vote in for the Fast Study arcane discovery feat. It lets you prepare spells in a minute, which is more or less spontaneous as long as you're not right in the middle of combat - it makes you the most versatile spellcaster in the game.

[Zeiph67]

where do you recommend i put that lvl wise

[ciretose]

You are going to have a hard time surviving to take toughness at 15th level with a 10 con. Not to mention Fort saves...

[StreamOfTheSky]

Is Compsagnathus not available for a familiar, or do you just prefer Bat? It's an extra +4 initiative, which is pretty nice.

Since your high level feats seem to just be random stuff... have you considered more metamagic? Persistent, Bouncing, Selective, Reach, and Dazing are all quite good. They're all low cost and thus are inexpensive metamagic rods, of course. But so is Extend Spell and you took that. If you keep the craft feats, I'd take Wondrous LOOOONG before Arms & Armor, if I ever took the latter. Wondrous will cover many more items for the entire party.

If you have one uber spell you plan to spam a lot, Spell Perfection is an uber good 15th level feat.

What schools are prohibited for you? Most conjurations have no SR, the spell pen. feats may not be so necessary.

[Axebeard]

I'd take Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration) at 5 instead of augment summoning. Given the choice between bringing in a monster that's 2-3 CR behind the enemies we're fighting or outright winning the battle with stinking cloud, I'll take winning the fight.

Not to mention that if you've got at least one strong melee combatant and one passable one, Haste is probably a better spell to memorize than SMIII anyways.

Ask your DM if he thinks that the Dimensional Agility feat works with Shift. Dimensional Agility says that you can take actions after a D-Door, and Shift says it works like D-Door. I think it should, myself, if I apply the ole logical faculties, but I'm not your DM. If he says it does, take that at 7 after you learn Dimension Door so that you can pop around the battlefield and get out of threatened areas and grapples before casting spells. It'll help save you from your constitution score.

[Zeiph67]

Ciretose - With the fort saves I agree, but the object of Teleportation ability shift and being a wizard in general is to stay way out of combat.

StreamOfTheSky - No that familiar isn't allowed in this campaign. Prohibited are Divination and Necromancy forgot to put that up there. The metamagics i will have to consider. and i think I'll swap the wondrous and arms makes sense.

Axebeard - thanks for the advice on dimensional agility. My character is focusing on summoning more than anything but i may be able to move spell greater focus up further

[ciretose]

Zeiph67 wrote:

Ciretose - With the fort saves I agree, but the object of Teleportation ability shift and being a wizard in general is to stay way out of combat.

Yes, but you have so few hit points that you are literally one good shot from unconscious throughout, even at range.

[Zeiph67]

ciretose wrote:

Zeiph67 wrote:

Ciretose - With the fort saves I agree, but the object of Teleportation ability shift and being a wizard in general is to stay way out of combat.

Yes, but you have so few hit points that you are literally one good shot from unconscious throughout, even at range.

What do you suggest to raise my Con.

[InsaneFox]

I'm in the same party as Zeiph. In case it matters, our party currently has my level 3 aldori sword fighter, a level 3 dervish dancer bard, a level 3 Illusion-based (I BELIEVE) sorceror, a level 3 monk, and a level 2 ranger.

Now, while I'm not too great at building casters, I'd get rid of Improved Initiative, and I'd only take Craft Wondrous Item if you REALLY mean to use it. Instead of toughness at level 13, I'd take it at 1. Don't really need quick draw unless you're planning on going Harry Potter on our enemies.

[Zeiph67]

Dropping a few of the later level feats for Metamagics like StreamOfTheSky suggested and improved initiative is crucial must go first

[InsaneFox]

Your weakness is HP, my friend.

IF you absolutely MUST go first, though, I suggest going human. You can put the +2 to int, you lose the +2 to Dex, BUT your HP isn't going to be as low. PLUS, you can take Imp Init AND Toughness. (Because playing an old character, you need to take toughness to keep up with us young whippersnappers.)

[Zeiph67]

alright how bout a readjust
Str 9
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 21
Wis 9
Cha 9

and as soon as i can I'll be using the age resistance spells to get rid of the age penalties. thus changing my stats to

adjusted old
Str 12 12
Dex 14 15
Con 15 13
Int 21 22
Wis 9 9
Cha 9 9

[StreamOfTheSky]

Why are you pumping int to the stratosphere at the expense of dex and con when your primary role is going to be summoning, anyway?

If you were doing a save-or-lose slinging caster, it'd make sense. But just seems wasteful and pointless in your case. Summons don't need ability score for casting other than 10 + spell level to cast and bonus slots for high #. I'd rather be adult age and not sack physicals by 3 just for +2 int (you clearly don't care about the wis/cha boost).

[Zeiph67]

good point Stream decided on not going old and altered the stats

Str 8
Dex 16
Con 16
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 7

[Mercurial]

I'm looking at this character and wondering if you ouldn't be much happier with a Master Summoner... they tend to follow the Transmuter's and Conjurer's spell lists and can Summon beyond belief (standard action instead of full, minutes duration instead of rounds, Augment Summoning for free, etc.).

I absolutely love my Master Summoner and its not immodest to say that he's the most versatile and potent member of our party.

[Sylvanite]

Old age and pumping Int while dumping everything else seems cheesy to me, BUT if that is totally cool in your group then I understand. I'm not judging, just offering the warning that some people might be peeved at you right off the bat if you show up specced out in that fashion. You know your group better than I, however.

Also, the Shift teleportation ability does not function for the dimensional agility line. Unless the DM is houseruling that it does, it works like DD (meaning you can only use it at the END of your turn, as it instantly stops you from taking any more actions until your next turn), but is NOT DD, which means it doesn't work with those feats.

I'd recommend jacking your Int up pretty high and using the Create Pit line of spells along with whatever else you're doing. They're absolutely beastly, and you can ready your actions to cast them once a baddy moves up to one of your melee fighters. If you do it that way, even if the baddy saves they are stuck in a really bad position.

[Zeiph67]

Not allowed in my campaign otherwise i would have... last two people that played summoner broke the hell out of it to the extent they could solo pretty much anything 3-4 crs higher than us

[Mercurial]

Just throwing this out there, my Master Summoner as he is right now - just 5th level, 25 point build, I use a Halfling because eventually I want to use my Eidolon as a flying mount and because I like them, but that's entirely your call:

Halfling Master Summoner
5th level

Attributes:
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 14
Cha 20 (+1 at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level)

Feats:
1st - Extra Summons
2nd - Augmented Summoning
3rd - Superior Summoning
5th - Improved Initiative

Monster Summoning III (11 times/day)
Casting time: Standard action
Duration: 1 minute/level

Spells: (5 1st, 3 2nd)
Orisons: Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Daze, Light, Message, Resistance
1st level: Identify, Protection Vs., Shield, Unfetter
2nd level: Haste, Invisibility, Summon Eidolon

Eidolon (Serpent Style, small)
Darksight, Telepathic Link, Share Spells, Evasion, Climb 20
Evolutions: Arms (1), Skilled: Perception (1), Skilled: Stealth (1), Skilled: Disable Device (1)
Equipment: Bandoleer w/ 1 Tanglefoot Bag, chalk, masterwork thieve's tools, bundle of tindertwigs

Equipment:
Wand of Magic Missiles (5th level), Handy Haversack, Chain Shirt +2

Its useful to have an eidolon who can double as a scout with higher Stealth and Perception than any rogue of comparable level - especially one with Darksight and the ability to report back to you telepathically. Next level he'll get the Skilled: UMD evolution and I'll buy him a wand of his own for combat.

If you're interested in the entire build let me know.

[Mercurial]

Dang - typed all that up and missed your response. Oh well.

[Mercurial]

Sylvanite wrote:

I'd recommend jacking your Int up pretty high and using the Create Pit line of spells along with whatever else you're doing. They're absolutely beastly, and you can ready your actions to cast them once a baddy moves up to one of your melee fighters. If you do it that way, even if the baddy saves they are stuck in a really bad position.

Agree. The Create Pit line of spells is terribly under-rated.

[Gignere]

If you are planning to play a "summoner" you may want to consider a cleric since your group already have an arcane caster.

Sacred Summons is nothing to sneeze at, while having medium armor, shield and a d8 hd will help with your lower con.

Starting at level 3 I would do a Human CG cleric of Cayden Cailean. Domains travel and liberation.

Feats would be Spell Focus Conjuration, Augment Summoning, and Sacred Summons.

At 5 pick up Superior Summonings.

[Axebeard]

Sylvanite wrote:

Also, the Shift teleportation ability does not function for the dimensional agility line. Unless the DM is houseruling that it does, it works like DD (meaning you can only use it at the END of your turn, as it instantly stops you from taking any more actions until your next turn), but is s NOT DD, which means it doesn't work with those feats.

I think there's an argument for both ways. If you can take actions after a dimension door, logically you should be able to take actions after effects that function like dimension door. But that's why I qualified the statement. It's a ymmv type of thing.

[Zeiph67]

Mericurial - Sorry you posted that after good in theory though if our group allowed it.

Gignere - If i played Cleric i would be expected to heal and never use my other spells except for party buffs. That is how it goes with healer classes in our group pretty much. combat divine like Paladin is a little different. Even our Bards pretty much do healing and buffs for the most part.

Axebeard - GM said no on using Dimensional Agility with Shift. Not a huge deal for me. I'll 5ft step away, do my stuff, and then shift further.

[Gignere]

Zeiph67 wrote:

Mericurial - Sorry you posted that after good in theory though if our group allowed it.

Gignere - If i played Cleric i would be expected to heal and never use my other spells except for party buffs. That is how it goes with healer classes in our group pretty much. combat divine like Paladin is a little different. Even our Bards pretty much do healing and buffs for the most part.

Axebeard - GM said no on using Dimensional Agility with Shift. Not a huge deal for me. I'll 5ft step away, do my stuff, and then shift further.

Hell if that is the case I'll tell the group that I am a conjurer and still roll a cleric. Just wear light armor and carry a buckler, than pretend to roll ASF every time you cast.

Pick up a trait and max out bluff. Work with the GM and see if he is down with that. Really fits a cleric of Cayden Cailean to pretend to be a wizard.

[Axebeard]

Zeiph67 wrote:

Axebeard - GM said no on using Dimensional Agility with Shift. Not a huge deal for me. I'll 5ft step away, do my stuff, and then shift further.

*sigh* Okay. You're right, it's not a huge deal. Some of shift's best utility is out of combat, anyways. Line of sight means getting into a LOT of buildings through transparent windows and unlocking doors from the inside, or skipping all of those annoying climb checks you'd rather not have to roll. OR you could Shift into random NPC's houses at night and lick all of their food. Or shorten one leg of every chair in the house by half an inch. Being a wizard means letting power go to your head in the most petty ways possible.

And if your concept is summoning, then feel free to take augment summoning whenever you want - I was just giving my preferred option. The CR of summons tend to lag further and further behind party level as you gain levels (and the summons useful for their spellcasting, like Wall of Ice at will, don't really benefit that much from the feat), and you'll just need to plan your turns in advance to make sure you and your army don't take up 10 minutes of everyone's day every time your initiative comes up. My perspective is SOMEWHAT tainted by having played PFS once with a party of 7 which had 3 characters with pets, though. I regret staying for that session.

One metamagic feat that I absolutely LOVE with the conjuration school is Persistent Spell. With a high intelligence and spell focus, it's basically a knockout punch. The occasion when a baddie saves against a persistent glitterdust is a really rare one, and in my experience, it's generally worth the 4th level slot. (Conjuration just has so many great spells that require saving throws.)

[Zeiph67]

Gignere wrote:

Zeiph67 wrote:

Mericurial - Sorry you posted that after good in theory though if our group allowed it.

Gignere - If i played Cleric i would be expected to heal and never use my other spells except for party buffs. That is how it goes with healer classes in our group pretty much. combat divine like Paladin is a little different. Even our Bards pretty much do healing and buffs for the most part.

Axebeard - GM said no on using Dimensional Agility with Shift. Not a huge deal for me. I'll 5ft step away, do my stuff, and then shift further.

Hell if that is the case I'll tell the group that I am a conjurer and still roll a cleric. Just wear light armor and carry a buckler, than pretend to roll ASF every time you cast.

Pick up a trait and max out bluff. Work with the GM and see if he is down with that. Really fits a cleric of Cayden Cailean to pretend to be a wizard.

LOL! Yeah thats an idea... Going with the Wizard because I've never gave them a shot mainly. Played a pretty much everything else or drawn one up, but never truly gave wizard a try.

Axebeard - After looking over the summons list later on it isn't worth it so much. What do you think about Spell Specialization instead. Essentially giving me two extra rounds of my summon, and i can up it to the next SM every even level

[Fergie]

Summoning wizard is great!

Without knowing your character concept, I can only recommend what I think would make the character fun to play and effective.

Abilities: (aim for something like this after racial adjustments. Drop the age thing.
S 10
D 14
c 12 (It's tough to be an elf with a good con.
I 20 (or 19)
W 10
Ch 8

Feats:
If your going to take toughness, level 1 is the best time.
Spell Focus Conj and Augment summons are must haves if you do summoning.
Craft Wondrous Item is power game crack. First item is a headband of intellect.

Misc.:
You can summon and cast many other spells while invisible.
Protection from evil, Mage armor, and mirror image will keep you alive. Later displacement and stoneskin.
Don't forget debuffs like enervation, and buffs like haste.
FIREBALL!

[Axebeard]

Zeiph67 wrote:

Axebeard - After looking over the summons list later on it isn't worth it so much. What do you think about Spell Specialization instead. Essentially giving me two extra rounds of my summon, and i can up it to the next SM every even level

I think that Augment Summoning would serve you better than Spell Specialization in your best summon monster spell. As a conjuration specialist, your durations are already longer, and to be honest, once you hit about level 6, your summons will last all fight anyways. Spells that benefit the most from Spell Specialization are those whose primary effect hinges on caster level, so spells like damage spells (fireball), Dispel Magic, and Greater Magic Weapon when you're within 2 levels of the next enhancement bonus.

If you want to play a summoner wizard, play a summoner wizard! It's a very iconic role - you'll still have other spells prepared, and can use your summons as a way to buffer your spell selection: After all, a monster is almost always useful, if for nothing else than a flank buddy for the fighter. (In my experience, DMs tend to ignore summons as attack targets unless given no other choice, though, so a summon's utility as a damage soak varies based on the group.)

If you speak the right languages, you can always just bring them in on top of enemy spellcasters and order them to ready attacks for when the wizard starts to cast a spell. I don't play a summoning wizard currently because my current group is a large one AND we've got a high point buy, so summons, which rely on pre-written stats, start out weak and then continue not to scale well after that and slow down the already slow combats. Once you get the spellcasting summons, though, every time THEY cast a spell, it's like you got to cast a quickened spell without actually using a spell slot. Lantern Archons continuously casting Aid on the party frontline can buffer a LOT of damage against hordes of weaker opponents. (Although this way in which I tend to use summons is the kind that doesn't really benefit from Augment Summoning.)

[bfobar]

Zeiph67 wrote:

Mericurial - Sorry you posted that after good in theory though if our group allowed it.

Gignere - If i played Cleric i would be expected to heal and never use my other spells except for party buffs. That is how it goes with healer classes in our group pretty much. combat divine like Paladin is a little different. Even our Bards pretty much do healing and buffs for the most part.

Axebeard - GM said no on using Dimensional Agility with Shift. Not a huge deal for me. I'll 5ft step away, do my stuff, and then shift further.

Shame. You could have played an evangelist of gorum with the destruction domain, alternative strength channeling, and you would be able to toss out an augmented master sacred summon monster and then quad buff them the next round (inspire courage previous round before summon as a move action, move action quick strength channel, quickened buff, standard buff). Add the abyssal bloodline with eldritch heritage and a maximize rod at later levels for a stupid amount of feindish monsters from one summon.

Also, your healing would be seriously sub par.

[LazarX]

If you're specialty is Conjuration, in particular summoning, You don't need astrononomical DC modifiers.

You certainly don't need to make your wizard who is already a glass cannon even more feeble by taking an additional hit in stats my making him old and feeble.

You don't need a 20+ score at first level to make an effective wizard. More balanced stats means greater chance at surviving long enough to make a difference.

[Zeiph67]

Axebeard - With what our GM told me after i had told him i was making this character is that he would attack the summons if they "provoked" the enemy somehow. Which in our group is normally who bashed its face in the hardest.

bfobar - Not a fan of Clerics even if my group didn't act like Divine casters were heal-bots. I'd rather play Oracle over Cleric.

LazarX - Stats were adjusted later in the thread to str 8, dex 16, con 16, int 18, wis 9, cha 7. Obviously not old because those stats wouldn't be possible if I was.

[LazarX]

Zeiph67 wrote:

LazarX - Stats were adjusted later in the thread to str 8, dex 16, con 16, int 18, wis 9, cha 7. Obviously not old because those stats wouldn't be possible if I was.

Anything can be possible in a home campaign.