Angel Aura Question


Rules Questions


3 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

An angel has a generally nifty aura that includes a lesser globe of of invulnerability. Sometimes this aura can cause serious problems, however, for allies and the angel itself. Can an angel choose to stop evoking its aura? What kind of action is that? Are there basic rules on auras somewhere that I have missed?

Thanks for your thoughts.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html

Protective Aura (Su) . . . . [I]t functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel's HD). . . .


Big M wrote:

An angel has a generally nifty aura that includes a lesser globe of of invulnerability. Sometimes this aura can cause serious problems, however, for allies and the angel itself. Can an angel choose to stop evoking its aura? What kind of action is that? Are there basic rules on auras somewhere that I have missed?

Thanks for your thoughts.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html

Protective Aura (Su) . . . . [I]t functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel's HD). . . .

No action, unless it turned it off then standard (as all Supernaturals are default).

I say no action because it has no limited duration. So it should be assumed to be on.


It took me a bit, but I believe I figured the riddle out. The aura makes total sense if the first phrase modifies the whole aura, instead of just the first sentence: the globe aspect works against effects created by evil creatures, but not those created by good or neutral ones, thus not interfering with an angel's own abilities. In other words, read the phrase, "against those attacks or affects" into the second sentence.

The ability is worded clumsily--it was in previous editions of the game too--but this makes the most grammatical and common sense.

Ability Description:

Alterations in bold and brackets
Protective Aura (Su) Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise [against those attacks or effects], [the Protective Aura] functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel’s HD). The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel’s statistics block.

The Exchange

I was taking a look at the angels and came across this thread. Of all the bestiary monsters it seems like they have the potential to create the most problems for themselves. I see how you're reading it Big M, but I don't think I agree. Here's the original text:

PRD wrote:
Protective Aura (Su) Against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures, this ability provides a +4 deflection bonus to AC and a +4 resistance bonus on saving throws to anyone within 20 feet of the angel. Otherwise, it functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel's HD). The defensive benefits from the circle are not included in an angel's statistics block.

I'm reading this as:

This ability functions as a magic circle against evil (radius 20') and a lesser globe of invulnerability (radius 20'). In addition; anyone within 20' of the angel gets a +4 resistance bonus on saves and a +4 deflection bonus against attacks made or effects created by evil creatures.

I also cannot find any way to "turn off" the aura (short of entering an antimagic field). I can't believe there is no way to do so, I just can't find the rule. Even if you can turn off the aura, it seems crazy that an angel has to lower his aura just to turn himself invisible. Even more so to cast cure serious wounds. Heck, planetars and solars have a big long list of touch or personal range spells of levels 0-3 that they wouldn't be able to use.

"Why doesn't the Monadic Deva fighting that daemon cast one of his 3/day mirror images?"
"Because he'd have to give up a +4 to deflection and saves to use it."

In summary I'm marking this for a FAQ. That really needs to read either:

"...circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability (against effects with the evil descriptor or effects created by evil creatures only), both with a radius..."
-or-
"...circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel's HD). The globe of invulnerability does not affect spells cast by or effects created by the angel. The defensive benefits..."

(I prefer the first one otherwise you get into all kinds of problems with good allies, including other angels.)


I Think "Otherwise" should have been "In Other words"

The Exchange

Reecy wrote:
I Think "Otherwise" should have been "In Other words"

Eh, probably not. "In other words" means "I'm saying this differently but my intended meaning is exactly the same as the words I used earlier." In this case there are two separate things going on. A) the magic circle against evil and the lesser globe of invulnerability effect and B) a +4 deflection to AC and +4 to saves vs. evil creatures.

Although I agree the wording is problematic... "Otherwise" can be interpreted that the circle and globe don't take effect unless you aren't getting the deflection bonus. Or:
"If X [evil creature attack] happens then Y [deflection and saves] occurs, otherwise (if X does not happen), Z [circle and globe] occurs."
I think the intention was:
"Y acts in this particular way [deflection and saves], otherwise (except where Y contradicts it) this acts as Z [circle and globe]."

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Big M wrote:

An angel has a generally nifty aura that includes a lesser globe of of invulnerability. Sometimes this aura can cause serious problems, however, for allies and the angel itself. Can an angel choose to stop evoking its aura? What kind of action is that? Are there basic rules on auras somewhere that I have missed?

Thanks for your thoughts.

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/creatureTypes.html

Protective Aura (Su) . . . . [I]t functions as a magic circle against evil effect and a lesser globe of invulnerability, both with a radius of 20 feet (caster level equals angel's HD). . . .

Why would an angel want to? the aura doesn't interfere with any of his abilities or of those of his allies who are casting from within it. These effects CAN be dispelled, but they can be brought back up as a standard action.

The Exchange

LazarX wrote:
Why would an angel want to? the aura doesn't interfere with any of his abilities or of those of his allies who are casting from within it. These effects CAN be dispelled, but they can be brought back up as a standard action.
PRD: Globe of Invulnerability wrote:
An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a dispel magic spell. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.

The problem is with spells or spell-like abilities of 3rd level or lower that don't leave the area of the globe. These "fail to affect any target in the globe." In other words anything personal (like the angel's invisibility) or touch (like cure serious wounds) wouldn't have any effect.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Belafon wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Why would an angel want to? the aura doesn't interfere with any of his abilities or of those of his allies who are casting from within it. These effects CAN be dispelled, but they can be brought back up as a standard action.
PRD: Globe of Invulnerability wrote:
An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a dispel magic spell. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.
The problem is with spells or spell-like abilities of 3rd level or lower that don't leave the area of the globe. These "fail to affect any target in the globe." In other words anything personal (like the angel's invisibility) or touch (like cure serious wounds) wouldn't have any effect.

I don't see a justification for that interpretation. Any more than having the mage armor spell cast on you makes it more difficult for you to put food into your mouth.

The Exchange

LazarX wrote:
Belafon wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Why would an angel want to? the aura doesn't interfere with any of his abilities or of those of his allies who are casting from within it. These effects CAN be dispelled, but they can be brought back up as a standard action.
PRD: Globe of Invulnerability wrote:
An immobile, faintly shimmering magical sphere surrounds you and excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe. Excluded effects include spell-like abilities and spells or spell-like effects from items. Any type of spell, however, can be cast through or out of the magical globe. Spells of 4th level and higher are not affected by the globe, nor are spells already in effect when the globe is cast. The globe can be brought down by a dispel magic spell. You can leave and return to the globe without penalty.
The problem is with spells or spell-like abilities of 3rd level or lower that don't leave the area of the globe. These "fail to affect any target in the globe." In other words anything personal (like the angel's invisibility) or touch (like cure serious wounds) wouldn't have any effect.
I don't see a justification for that interpretation. Any more than having the mage armor spell cast on you makes it more difficult for you to put food into your mouth.

Because it flat-out says it doesn't work. Here's the text again:

Quote:
...excludes all spell effects of 3rd level or lower. The area or effect of any such spells does not include the area of the lesser globe of invulnerability. Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe...

If spells of 3rd level or lower fail to affect any target located within the globe, how can an angel possibly cast cure serious wounds on itself or an adjacent ally? (Bearing in mind that in the specific case of the angel's aura, the globe moves with the creature. I am aware that the spell lesser globe of invulnerability says that you can leave and return to the globe.)

I think you're arguing either that as the originator of the globe the angel is not affected or that spells cast inside the globe that don't cross the boundary from outside aren't affected. But both arguments are against the text of the spell. "Such spells fail to affect any target located within the globe."

I absolutely agree that it shouldn't keep the angel from casting personal and touch spells but as written it appears to do so. Hence the FAQ.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The globe of invulnerability spell protects against spells cast from OUTSIDE the globe. i.e. the guy trying to chuck fireballs at you. It does not prevent the globe caster from casting spells themselves. It's not the Anti-Magic spell.

The Exchange

LazarX wrote:
The globe of invulnerability spell protects against spells cast from OUTSIDE the globe. i.e. the guy trying to chuck fireballs at you. It does not prevent the globe caster from casting spells themselves. It's not the Anti-Magic spell.

I understand what you're saying and maybe it should work that way but the text of the spell is written such that no spells below 4th level can take effect within the globe. There's no exception for spells cast completely inside the globe.

At this point we're just going back and forth. Feel free to respond if you wish, I'm hoping to get some more input.


It's likely a relic of previous editions, where globe of invulnerability let your own abilities and spells work inside unhindered. It also could be the case where it was deliberately set up; it creates a situation where the angel could shield others from magic in a true dramatic fashion, then put the aura down and initiate a beatdown on some evildoers.


Marking this as a FAQ may not work very well. Starting a new thread with a more specific title and with a clearly defined question followed by a paragraph of explanation about why you have the question would be much more likely to get the results you want.

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