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Pathfinderized Dragonlance: Considerations?


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Dragonlance is really popular where I live, and it sounds like a setting I could get to have some affection for, and I happen to have need of a good medieval campaign setting (my homebrew is good, but incomplete and highly specialized, being a 19th century setting, not a medieval setting), so I got a copy in the mail.

I plan to play this with the Pathfinder ruleset. I don't see why that should be too complicated. However, it is my understanding that it has some different base classes and a different origin for sorcerers. Since I don't have my copy in front of me yet, could someone fill me in on how sorcerers work and what the new base classes are?


If you're planning to run the original Dragonlance Campaign (as adapted for 3.5, converted to PF) then you'll need to rewrite the whole of the first and most of the second volume. All they did when they converted it to 3.5 was re-stat from AD&D to 3.5. So the ancient red dragon in the middle scenario is converted to...an ancient red dragon.

Can't remember exactly the new base classes. There's a noble (souped up aristocrat NPC class), Wizard of High Sorcery (like a Wizard, but a bit better overall) and various Knight classes instead of paladins. There are some changes to the other base classes depending on when you set your game.


If it helps, I'll be running games somewhere between the War of the Lance and the War of Souls or just after, and I'll probably write my own adventures.

Grand Lodge

Sounds like fun! I always liked the War of the Lance era...


So a few years back my DM got the bright idea to run the 3.5 converted Dragonlance modules with us playing the Companions. It was okay...for a while, then problems arose surrounding the facts that a)there is exactly 1 rogue, 1 wizard and 1 cleric, end everyone else has to be a fighter b)the characters are max/min'ed, yes you heard that right. The actual Companions are HORRIBLY built and don't last like 5 rounds. Flint has like NPC levels ffs!

So in the end my suggestion would be to use the setting if you like it, but not the classes in there cuz they suck. The Noble IIRC is especially worthless. They are underpowered in 3.5, and they'd be (I'd reckon) even moreso in Pathfinder.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
Aeshuura wrote:
Sounds like fun! I always liked the War of the Lance era...

Yep, it does. I checked out some books from the library (Trapper Creek Job Corps Center has a very poorly stocked library, but the one thing it does have is plenty of Dragonlance) ,and I like them. Plus, the necessary rulebooks are cheap (I got Dragonlance Campaign Setting and Age of Mortals for 4 bucks plus shipping). All I have to do is recruit players (this will be a face to face game, not PBP), which shouldn't be hard.


meatrace wrote:
So in the end my suggestion would be to use the setting if you like it, but not the classes in there cuz they suck. The Noble IIRC is especially worthless. They are underpowered in 3.5, and they'd be (I'd reckon) even moreso in Pathfinder.

Is it possible to just use Pathfinder's Cavalier class (perhaps with Maximilius's horseless archetype as an optional choice) instead of the Noble class?

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Well, I would ignor the APG with the exception of the Cavalier, which can take the place of most of the lesser knighthoods and Ergothian cavaliers (and a portion of the Knights of Solomnia/Takhisis/Neraka). Depending on what age will tell you how much you should change, and it also depends on how close to the material you want to keep.

There have been a lot of posts asking about this, and I suggested some sites (mainly from DLNexus.com) about some conversion work. I'll see if I can dig it up.

Dragonlance is one of my two favorate settings, even far above Golarion, so feel free to PM me if you have any questions, I'll try to help.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
meatrace wrote:
So in the end my suggestion would be to use the setting if you like it, but not the classes in there cuz they suck. The Noble IIRC is especially worthless. They are underpowered in 3.5, and they'd be (I'd reckon) even moreso in Pathfinder.
Is it possible to just use Pathfinder's Cavalier class (perhaps with Maximilius's horseless archetype as an optional choice) instead of the Noble class?

What Beckett said.

I wouldn't replace Noble with Cavalier, but rather the Knight orders which, in DL, are PrCs. Just make them different orders or even archetypes. I mean I understand the flavor value of having knights be PrCs, having to prove themselves to gain entrance to the order, but it's just not any fun. In 2e you just started out as a knight IIRC, it has been 12 years and I only played that character for like 2 months...

As for Nobles, don't have the class at all. Why oughtn't you have a noble Fighter or noble Rogue or a knight that was born into nobility? The Noble class is just kind of silly, IMO, unnecessary and underpowered compared to, say, a Bard. For NPCs there's already the NPC Aristocrat class which serves.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

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Actually, in 2E, you started out as a squire, and took levels in Ceric/Fighter/Cavalier or a few other actual classes and could then change to a new Class Knight of the _____ when you met the requirements. Exactly like a Prestige Class.

I also think that the Knight of Solomnia and Takhisis are too important to the Fighter (Crown/Lily), "Paladin" (Rose)/Thorn (Wizard), and Cleric (Sword/Skull) to just wedge the Cavalier into it. I can certainly see a Cavalier archtype or 2, but at the same time a Cleric and Fighter one would be a wise decision. Same could be true for the Wizards of High Sorcery, and a lot of the unique groups and concepts in the setting.

One thing I've toyed with doing is developing Krynn's organizations into Factions like in PFS. That could be a very cool idea for play, too.


Fair enough. I did say it was 12 years ago :) and I think my DM used house rules for that because my character was DEFINITELY a Knight class at level 2.

I think the more Figher-esque orders could def be converted to Cavalier easily, and you can easily create an archetype that gives them spells of the appropriate progression in exchange for X, Y, Z. That's what I was getting at. But point taken.

If you want to look at Factions the faction system from the PHB2 is really really awesome. I've been meaning to develop the factions of my own world to fit that system, but I'm too lazy.


If you want to keep to the original:

There are no spontaneous casters before War Of The Souls with the exception of Irda (who are hidden anyway). Even dragons seem to be using books (I would keep them casting spells as sorcerers of listed level but decide that they need to learn spells from books like wizards to get their spells known). Which means that Bards, Oracles and Sorcerers are out. I would keep the Witch but made it very rare and limit to the wildest and most primitive regions.

I would make Knights Of Solamnia a social faction that would accept anyone capable of showing enough combat prowess (i.e. mostly Fighters, Cavaliers and Paladins) without making them into Prestige Classes or Archetypes. While the campaign setting gave them various abilities they showed little of them in the books (minor divine magic can be easily explained by taking levels of Cleric).

Wizards Of High Sorcery - again it could be done without resorting to prestige classess. Instead some of their special abilities could be made in arcane discoveries available to certain alignements.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
If it helps, I'll be running games somewhere between the War of the Lance and the War of Souls or just after, and I'll probably write my own adventures.

I've decided on the Age of Mortals, since that's the era book I ordered with the campaign setting.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

meatrace wrote:
Fair enough. I did say it was 12 years ago :) and I think my DM used house rules for that because my character was DEFINITELY a Knight class at level 2.

Sorry, I didn't mean that so much in the sense of "I'm right and you are wrong" as DL did some really innovating things, even way back in thday.


Drejk wrote:

If you want to keep to the original:

There are no spontaneous casters before War Of The Souls with the exception of Irda (who are hidden anyway). Even dragons seem to be using books (I would keep them casting spells as sorcerers of listed level but decide that they need to learn spells from books like wizards to get their spells known). Which means that Bards, Oracles and Sorcerers are out. I would keep the Witch but made it very rare and limit to the wildest and most primitive regions.

I would make Knights Of Solamnia a social faction that would accept anyone capable of showing enough combat prowess (i.e. mostly Fighters, Cavaliers and Paladins) without making them into Prestige Classes or Archetypes. While the campaign setting gave them various abilities they showed little of them in the books (minor divine magic can be easily explained by taking levels of Cleric).

Wizards Of High Sorcery - again it could be done without resorting to prestige classess. Instead some of their special abilities could be made in arcane discoveries available to certain alignements.

I've decided to do things after the War of Souls, since I bought a sourcebook for that era. The rest of the suggestions, however, are appreciated.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

After the War of Souls is a particularly interesting (in the Chinesse sense) time. Takhisis, the "One True God" has just united most of the world under a banner, and then died. For the first time in decades, the gods are returned, and magic and reality once again work as it should For most of the non-elven races, this is how the world has always been, and going back to a "normal" world is bizarre. All but one of the Great Dragons is dead, and with their deaths, the changes they literally forced onto the world, on nature are going to begin to unravel.

The Elves have completely lost all of their traditional homelands, and follow a new king who is untested. The only magic the world has know, the powers of the Heart (divine) and primal magic (arcane) have failed. Again. And yet, new godly magic is said to have returned. If it can be trusted? Not once, but twice in the recent past have the gods vanished, taking their true magic with them.

And, the great heroes of the past, the wise priests and experienced wizards have all gone, leaving their accumulated knowledge unaccessable to most. The Knights of Neraka, until recently one of the most powerful mortal institutions in the world under the great dragons, where not chosen by their once patron, and now have lost all allies in a world that almost universally opposses them. They are fractured now. No longer loyal to the deeper truths that they had been build upon, but duct taped together in more petty virtues or greed and military power.

The Knights of Solomnia, nearly crushed by a world that had turned against it's truer, higher values, again is finally, for the first time since it's inception, poised to rise to great power and political position. And yet, their father, their greatest patron, Paladine, is no more.

The powers of primal magic, reawakened and rediscovered in the world gave truth to superstition and old wives tales, birthing a variety of new beasts. The three siblings of magic have learned that they can no longer trust each other, that the magic itself is not itself enough. Artifacts and items of power lost since the times of Ishtar are rediscovered, as is a new god in the making. A new Tower, or rather a very, very old Tower of High Sorcerery is returning, and the barriers between "Krynnspace" and other realms have been shattered.

Who is to know what miay come of this. . .

Liberty's Edge

The bunch of you are making me want to tinker around in the Dragonlance setting again. I can't wait to see what you all come up with.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Alchemists could be a form of Wizards of High Sorcerery, or rather "wizards". Simlar to general wizards, they practice a different form of High Magic, drawn from the gods and regulated by The Towers. There are still renegade Alchemists, just as there are renegade Wizards, but Wizards are by far more common.

Summoners are certainly primal magic, and probably almost extict now. In all honesty, they should probably be reserved for antagonist NPC.

The Magus, probably should not exist in Dragonlance. Their schtick is already covered by Warmages, Knights of the Thorn, and the extremely rare "gish" types like the Emporer of Ansalon. These are the elite, and it spoils a lot of the setting, I think, if anyone can just cast arcane magic with a sword in their other hand. This should be extremely rare, and unheard of.

Oracle, I'm really torn. It almost does it. Almost. If you drop the Curse part, or leave it as a rare option for the "mystic" if they want it, then this could be a good replacement for the Mystic. As is, the Mystic Class is very poor. It is literally a Cleric, but worse. Also note, in DL, the Mystic never had Heavy Armor, and I would suggest re-adding it to the Cleric, both because of their pull towards Knight of the Sword and Knight of the Skull, but also to seperate them from the Mystic who otherwise are just Spontanious (Wisdom based) Clerics.

In all honesty, the way the Paizo has superbuffed Bards, they could easily take the place of Nobles, especially by utilizing some Archtypes that drop magic. Or leave the Noble. It's not a terrible class, very underappriciated.

Also, and this is just a suggestion for Kelsey as I know her idea for Fighters, you might add some of the Features fo the Noble, particularly some skills and skill based class features) to the Fighter to better represent your "officer" types.

I think the various alternate racial abilities in the APG could go a long way to show the differences between the common races in Krynn. The Elf could be the Silvanesti, whle Qualinasti might need to take the Desert Runner alternate trait now. Half-Orc are Minotaurs, (with minor tweeks) and Halflings are Kinder (with minr tweeks again). Otherwise, most races are the same.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

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Valkyn Highwind wrote:
The bunch of you are making me want to tinker around in the Dragonlance setting again. I can't wait to see what you all come up with.

This is never, ever, ever, a bad thing.

:)


Well, any setting other than Golarion would need tinkering to use with Pathfinder. Dragonlance just so happens to be excessively cheap, yet everything from it I've read so far is rather good. That's why I shelled out for Dragonlance instead of, say, Golarion or 3.5 Forgotten Realms as my campaign setting for when I want to play medieval fantasy instead of my technologically advanced homebrew.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Actually, Dragonlance does have technology, but it is not what you would think. Gnomes, in Krynn (the world of Dragonlance) are tinkerers. They build things. But, they, as a race, are cursed by Chaos that their inventions never work as they should. Often explosive and dangerous, it is almost like a form of magic.

I would also highly suggest you buy the books Knightly Orders of Ansalon, as it is an incredibly amazing book in general, and the three adventures in the series Key of Destiny, Specter of Sorrows, and Price of Courage, (if you can afford to indulge a bit :) ). Knightly Order, you might particularly enjoy being in the military, as it is fairly based in reality, in a sense.


My technologically advanced homebrew is an 18th/19th century fusion with some magitech thrown in. It has no armor or shields, and swords aren't used much. It's cool if that's what you are in the mood for, and I like the idea of gunpowder fantasy, but it's incomplete and not for everyone or every game. Pathfinder is a medieval roleplaying game, and while playing it with guns everywhere will be fun, I still want a medieval world to play in. Dragonlance looks attractive, and I'm fine with there being some technology/steampunk in it as long as it is still mostly swords, bows, and armor.

As for buying Knightly Orders of Ansalon and those adventures, I just spent a whole bunch on a copy of the Revised Bestiary of Krynn. I really don't want to spend any more money at all. I've ordered Dragonlance Campaign Setting 3.5, The Age of Mortals, and Revised Bestiary of Krynn. That is enough, right?


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Would tinker gnomes be likely to enjoy alchemy?

Sorry if all the questions are annoying, but my copies of the books aren't predicted to arrive for about five days at least.

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Would tinker gnomes be likely to enjoy alchemy?

Possibly, but for the most part, Gnome's technology either fails or works for something completely different than what it was intended for, often humously. A large battle catipult might turn out to be a complete faily on the field, buta fantastic checken plucker. So you could go that route certainly.

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Sorry if all the questions are annoying, but my copies of the books aren't predicted to arrive for about five days at least.

Not at all, my friend. I'm happy to help. Ask away.

Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

I really don't want to spend any more money at all. I've ordered Dragonlance Campaign Setting 3.5, The Age of Mortals, and Revised Bestiary of Krynn. That is enough, right?

Yes, that is enough. The Bestiary and the books I mentioned are mostly extra. I would suggest the Main book before you really even touch the other two. Even for the post-War of Souls some things have significantly changed from the Age of Mortals book.


Disclaimer: I stopped buying Dragonlance books after Dragons Of Summer Flame were published in Poland so I have only general knowledge of Age Of Mortals - mostly from reading the campaign setting.

While Beckett has lots of good suggestions I disagree with some of his choices.

Alchemists: I would use them to represent tinkers - some of them would be alchemists as such, others I would reflavor to be using mechanical contraptions instead of alchemy (and replace their Brew Potion with equivalent feat allowing creation of one-use use activated mechanical devices). Another change would be that their abilities should be Extraordinary instead of Supernatural. A table of random side-effects/failures would be in place too.

Magus: I agree they should be rare but could represent some dabblers combining melee and arcane in the same way as one could multiclass fighter/wizard (a scene from Dragons Of The Autumn Twilight comes to mind when Gilthanas uses some minor magic to open door to Sla-mori inciting Fizban to ask Raistlin if the elf is "one of us", i.e. mages - originally Gilthanas was Fighter/Wizard 3/3 or something like that but his paper mini could easily be taken for an elven magus). They could also be Knights Of The Thorn. I don't recall if the books mentioned if they were trained from early age or could join the ranks later. If former then magus would seem to be right, if later Fighter/Wizard/Eldritch Knight could be more appropriate.

Oracle: it seems obvious to me that the Oracle should be used as a basis for Mystic class with removed curse (and maybe proficiency in medium armor too). Some additional mysteries could be invented to better represent spheres of mysticism (or whatever their specializations were called).

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

For the most part, these are all already talked about or I actually do agree with you. The only one I want to mention, and this is mostly a preference, is the Magus. Between The Eldritch Knight, the Bard, The Knight of the Thorn, a Simple Fighter/Wizard, and a few other existing options, I think that the Magus si too much.

Both in that it is much better than even the Prestigue Classes and that there are already some established things that fit that same role and function. One more is really pushing it.

That being said, if you like the Magus, go for it. Also realize that all the DL references to "magus" or Battle Wizard or War Mage, or a few other things do not mean the Magus class.

As for the Raistlin/Gilthanas thing, you are partially correct, and this is actually the point over all. In Dragonlance, once a mage (arcanist) learns a certain level of magic proficiency (about 3rd level) they need to take The Test. This is a magical test conducted by the Wizards of High Sorcery according to the rules and traditions of the three deities of magic. Failure typically means death, and success means that the mage needs to pick a robe in allegience to one of the three deities and may continue to study magic. If you do not take the thest, you can not learn magic (past 3rd level spells more or less) except as a renegade mage. An outlaw that the Tower Mages will hunt down. Another aspect of the Test and being accepted is the tradition of foresaking armor and all weapons except for the dagger and the staff, dues to the tradition of Magius.

:)

This goes back to 1st and 2nd ed when a Wizard couldn't wear armor and cast spells (autofail), and could only be proficient in a few types of weapons. Elves, and Elven Chain being an exception.


Gnomes in Dragonlance are almost completely comic relief. Dailed back in a sense that is reasonable for play I think Alchemy would be a super fit for Alchemist. I would also consider adding Errberon's Artificer base class though thematically they should be generally mechanical in nature.


Gnomezrule wrote:
Gnomes in Dragonlance are almost completely comic relief. Dailed back in a sense that is reasonable for play I think Alchemy would be a super fit for Alchemist. I would also consider adding Errberon's Artificer base class though thematically they should be generally mechanical in nature.

they aren't comic relief now?

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

I agree that they should be much more mechanical in nature than potion driven (I don't recall a single potion brewer type), but I also wouldn't say they are comic relief. Gnimsh (spelling) fromt he Legends series wasn't funny at all, but all kinds for sad victimization sometime cute sometimes horrific. In the 1st Anvil of Time book, the Gnome is a scoundrelous fighter type, I think having recently seized control of the thieves guild by simple walking up and stabbing the other guy in the face and then using his brains to convince everyone else he would do a better (more financially appropriate) job.

I think the idea that Gnomes finally had something unique (they have always been rather pointless as a race, and honestly still are in PathFinder in most ways), is more what your talking about. It's more the idea of them being partially crazy, partially cursed, and also the fact that they can't advance the technology level lest we break the setting/mood/theme, (like in Golarion. . . um, um), but still need them to have an actual place and point in existing.


Some of the base classes that are present, dependent upon your time period you chose to play in are:
Mystic (not until Summer Flame),
Noble
I can't remember the name but they make items. I think that they are in the WOL campaign setting.
Sorcerer (not until after Summer Flame)

I do not see why the Cavelier could not be used out of the APG.

Dragonlance, I found, was very heavily dependent upon prestige classes. The PRCs show dedication to the Order that one belongs to, such as the Wizards of High Sorcery and the Knights of Solamnia. However, one can b a member of the Order without levels in the PRC. They just, mechanically, did not receive the benefits of the dedication to their Order.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:

My technologically advanced homebrew is an 18th/19th century fusion with some magitech thrown in. It has no armor or shields, and swords aren't used much. It's cool if that's what you are in the mood for, and I like the idea of gunpowder fantasy, but it's incomplete and not for everyone or every game. Pathfinder is a medieval roleplaying game, and while playing it with guns everywhere will be fun, I still want a medieval world to play in. Dragonlance looks attractive, and I'm fine with there being some technology/steampunk in it as long as it is still mostly swords, bows, and armor.

As for buying Knightly Orders of Ansalon and those adventures, I just spent a whole bunch on a copy of the Revised Bestiary of Krynn. I really don't want to spend any more money at all. I've ordered Dragonlance Campaign Setting 3.5, The Age of Mortals, and Revised Bestiary of Krynn. That is enough, right?

Much of what is in the Campaign setting was changed/updated with, Races of Ansalon, Towers of High Sorcery, Holy Orders of the Stars, and Knightly Orders of Ansalon.


Beckett wrote:

I agree that they should be much more mechanical in nature than potion driven (I don't recall a single potion brewer type), but I also wouldn't say they are comic relief. Gnimsh (spelling) fromt he Legends series wasn't funny at all, but all kinds for sad victimization sometime cute sometimes horrific. In the 1st Anvil of Time book, the Gnome is a scoundrelous fighter type, I think having recently seized control of the thieves guild by simple walking up and stabbing the other guy in the face and then using his brains to convince everyone else he would do a better (more financially appropriate) job.

I think the idea that Gnomes finally had something unique (they have always been rather pointless as a race, and honestly still are in PathFinder in most ways), is more what your talking about. It's more the idea of them being partially crazy, partially cursed, and also the fact that they can't advance the technology level lest we break the setting/mood/theme, (like in Golarion. . . um, um), but still need them to have an actual place and point in existing.

Beckett I am sure you know have more Dragonlance experience than I. I read most of the books 19 years ago. I am just rembering the paragraphs dedicated to the gnome city and the gnome sailing ship. While yes most of their tech appeared mechanical verses alchemical I think that if you focus on the idea of science verses arcane I think gnome alchemists of Ansalon make a lot of sense. Though I will say I am guitly of following the spirit of ideas loosely versus following the letter of text.


Shalafi2412 wrote:
I can't remember the name but they make items. I think that they are in the WOL campaign setting.

You mean Master? IIRC they were Experts upgraded to full PC class.

Quote:
I do not see why the Cavelier could not be used out of the APG.

AD&D Dragonlance Campaign Setting Boxed Set even had notes about Cavaliers characters described in warrior section together with Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers and Knights Of Solamnia. They were intended to represent knights other than Knights Of Solamnia.

Quote:
Dragonlance, I found, was very heavily dependent upon prestige classes. The PRCs show dedication to the Order that one belongs to, such as the Wizards of High Sorcery and the Knights of Solamnia. However, one can b a member of the Order without levels in the PRC. They just, mechanically, did not receive the benefits of the dedication to their Order.

I think that most of those things could be reworked into feats, alternate class features and prestige-based faction abilities (PF made me trying to avoid spawning too much prestige classes).

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Gnomezrule wrote:
Beckett I am sure you know have more Dragonlance experience than I. I read most of the books 19 years ago.

I'm not intending to come off as I'm right and your wrong, so I apologize if that's what it sounds like. I'm curious why you said that, is all. I haven't read all the books, and like you it has been a while for some of it.

Gnomezrule wrote:
I am just rembering the paragraphs dedicated to the gnome city and the gnome sailing ship. While yes most of their tech appeared mechanical verses alchemical I think that if you focus on the idea of science verses arcane I think gnome alchemists of Ansalon make a lot of sense. Though I will say I am guitly of following the spirit of ideas loosly versus following the letter of text.

There is some comic relief, don't get me wrong, it's just not all Gnomes are known for. I also agree with you. Alchemist (reflavored a bit) makes a lot of sense. I still think the Alchemist could be a good "wizard", too, but adding the alchemist (with mechanics and engineering) to Gnomes is a great idea.

Dalimar's Tutor2412 wrote:
Dragonlance, I found, was very heavily dependent upon prestige classes. The PRCs show dedication to the Order that one belongs to, such as the Wizards of High Sorcery and the Knights of Solamnia. However, one can b a member of the Order without levels in the PRC. They just, mechanically, did not receive the benefits of the dedication to their Order.

Almost all of the Prestige Classes present are very closely tied to an organization in game. There really are not any generic PCs, but at the same time, you are not required to be a member of a prestige class to be a memeber of that organization.


So, how would one reflavor the Alchemist for an artificer type character?


As for vanilla Alchemists, I'll have to think more on allowing them.


Beckett wrote:
I still think the Alchemist could be a good "wizard", too, but adding the alchemist (with mechanics and engineering) to Gnomes is a great idea.

Alchemist-wizards should have their healing extracts cut away if trying to keep close to Dragonlance very strong premise that only divine power is capable of healing (a theme I am not fond of myself) as it played a very important part in Age Of Despair.

The only non-divine form of healing (at least pre-Age Of Mortals) that appears are the golden rings made by Wizards Of High Sorcery (IIRC capable of healing up to 6 points of damage per day and saving wearer's life exactly once - I think that Dalamar had one when he was waiting for Raistlin and it was responsible for his survival of Kitiara's betrayal) and the unnamed spell used by Raistlin to save dying Tasslehoff in Dragons Of The Spring Dawning (which looked to me as some sort of reversed death spell or maybe vampiric touch, crushed pearl used as a component suggest the former).

Damn, I am good... When I opened Dragons Of The Spring Dawning to check I opened exactly on the page where Raistlin casts that spell :D


So, if arcanes can't heal, what about having Witches allowed, but house ruling that they cast divine spells, though from the same list?

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

That is correct, arcanist can not heal, and all arcane class remove all healing spells from their lists. Including Witches. The reason for this is because the initial setting had no deities, and was a quest to refind them. In the earlier editions, only divine characters (with some rare exceptions like one of the 1st edition Bards which was basically a prestige class) had access to any healing at all. Druids had the bare minimume while and Clerics had the best. No deities meant no Cerics and Druids, so no healing.

Honestly, I didn't even think of the Witch, but I would suggest it as an alternate way to handle Mystics and Sorcerers in the later eras of play. You could house rule them as Divine, but they should still face the same issue, no deity (um um "patron") means no magic in certain eras. <does this make sense? I can explain further, realizing you do not have the books just yet>

Alchemists, reskinned to mechanics literlly just meaning that you don't change any of their class features, jsut instead of them drinking a potion, maybe they acticate some sort of proto power armor or have some sort of rudimentary contraption that does the same affects that the potion would have. They might have a sketch or logbook for their "spells".

Shadow Lodge Star Voter 2013

Drejk wrote:
the unnamed spell used by Raistlin to save dying Tasslehoff in Dragons Of The Spring Dawning (which looked to me as some sort of reversed death spell or maybe vampiric touch, crushed pearl used as a component suggest the former).

I can't think of the name, but it was a unique Dragonlance spell from Towers of High Sorcery. Essenually it was a a limited Wish-like spell in some ways. It allowed the caster to effectively rewind time, undoing certain affects within a few minutes as if they had never happened. It could essentually rewind the target say 1 minute so that they neverrecieved the wound (effectively curing those HP) or in Tas's case, to a point just before recieving the poison dart from that door. A very high priced version of healing.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Almost all of the Prestige Classes present are very closely tied to an organization in game. There really are not any generic PCs, but at the same time, you are not required to be a member of a prestige class to be a memeber of that organization.

That is what I said.


Beckett wrote:
Gnomezrule wrote:
Beckett I am sure you know have more Dragonlance experience than I. I read most of the books 19 years ago.

I'm not intending to come off as I'm right and your wrong, so I apologize if that's what it sounds like. I'm curious why you said that, is all. I haven't read all the books, and like you it has been a while for some of it.

I was being sincere though reading my sentance I can see why it might read sarcasm. I said it because I though a lot of your points made sense to what I remember of Dragonlance. I was not trying to call you a know it all.


Also having an ambient caster levels (mystic, sorcerer, bard) mixed with focused caster levels (wizards, clerics)was not allowed in multiclassed.

Wizards, once they passed the Test of High Sorcery, could only level in classes that gained prepared arcane spells unless they wanted to be declared renegade.


Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
So, how would one reflavor the Alchemist for an artificer type character?

Well to some extent alchemists to a large extent to make things whether potions, bombs or other things. In that sense they don't need reflavoring. Adding the artificer class from Errberon in the case of tinker gnomes would need to be reflavored so that the description of things was that of wild clockwork tech rather than streamlined magical design.


Maybe part of the problem is trying to make everything fit in a world that it might not necessarily fit into?


Shalafi2412 wrote:
Maybe part of the problem is trying to make everything fit in a world that it might not necessarily fit into?

That's what I'm trying to get help with. I don't know what all fits perfectly yet, since my books are in the mail. I'm asking you guys what does fit, and what I could do to make things fit.


Beckett wrote:

That is correct, arcanist can not heal, and all arcane class remove all healing spells from their lists. Including Witches. The reason for this is because the initial setting had no deities, and was a quest to refind them. In the earlier editions, only divine characters (with some rare exceptions like one of the 1st edition Bards which was basically a prestige class) had access to any healing at all. Druids had the bare minimume while and Clerics had the best. No deities meant no Cerics and Druids, so no healing.

Honestly, I didn't even think of the Witch, but I would suggest it as an alternate way to handle Mystics and Sorcerers in the later eras of play. You could house rule them as Divine, but they should still face the same issue, no deity (um um "patron") means no magic in certain eras. <does this make sense? I can explain further, realizing you do not have the books just yet>

Alchemists, reskinned to mechanics literlly just meaning that you don't change any of their class features, jsut instead of them drinking a potion, maybe they acticate some sort of proto power armor or have some sort of rudimentary contraption that does the same affects that the potion would have. They might have a sketch or logbook for their "spells".

That's a good idea on the tech Alchy. As for the Witch, I am using the Age of Mortals, so there are gods.


The current age is the Age of Mortals. Are you playing pre or post War of Souls?


Post, most likely.


That leaves you the most options.

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