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Trying to make Spartacus - Opinions on this build?


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Hey guys,

I came up with the idea of making Spartacus as one of my back up characters, but I don't know how to optimise and most of the time I play Pathfinder, our GM either accidentally obliterates us with good rolls, adds in too many monsters or somebody in the party (most commonly me), usually gets the party killed.

Anyway, that aside, how optimised is my build and is there any way to improve upon it/break it? Broken characters seem to work best in our games, but only one person so far has successfully made one....and that was because he was cheating. :/

My hopefully fun build of Spartacus:
Name: Spartacus
Race: Human
Age: 26
Class: Fighter - Two-Weapon Warrior

Stats:

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 10
Wis: 12
Int: 13
Cha: 14

BAB: 1
CMB: 3
CMD: 16

Fort: 2
Reflex: 3
Will: 2

Initiative: 7

HP: 11
AC: 16
Flat-Footed: 13
Touch: 13

Weapons: Gladius x2 - 30gp, 6lb's, 1d6 19-20x2 - Piercing or Slashing
Armour: Studded Leather - 25gp, 20lb's, -1acp

Traits:

Threatening Defender - When you use Combat Expertise, reduce the number you subtract from your melee attack rolls by 1.

Carefully Hidden - You gain a +1 trait bonus to Will saves and a +2 trait bonus to saving throws versus divination effects.

Feats:

Level 1: Two-Weapon Fighting, Double Slice, Improved Initiative
Level 2: Combat Expertise
Level 3: Improved Trip
Level 4: Fury's Fall
Level 5: Weapon Specialisation
Level 6: Greater Trip
Level 7: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Improved Critical
Level 9: Improved Disarm
Level 10: Break Guard
Level 11: Two-Weapon Rend
Level 12: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 13: Greater Weapon Specialisation
Level 14: Rending fury
Level 15: Dodge
Level 16: Mobility
Level 17: Spring Attack
Level 18: Critical Focus
Level 19: Staggering Critical
Level 20: Stunning Critical

Skills:

Survival (Wis) - 5
Intimidate (Cha) - 6
Swim (Str) - 6
Perception - 1

Favoured Class: Fighter - HP

Two-Weapon Warrior

Trained under great masters who preached the simple truth that two are better than one when it comes to weapons, the two-weapon warrior is a terror when his hands are full. From paired daggers to exotic double weapons, all combinations come equally alive in his skilled hands.

Defensive Flurry (Ex): At 3rd level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, he gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC against melee attacks until the beginning of his next turn. This bonus increases by +1 every four levels after 3rd. This ability replaces armor training 1 and 2.

Twin Blades (Ex): At 5th level, a two-weapon warrior gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls when making a full attack with two weapons or a double weapon. This bonus increases by +1 for every four levels after 5th. This ability replaces weapon training 1.

Doublestrike (Ex): At 9th level, a two-weapon warrior may, as a standard action, make one attack with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 2.

Improved Balance (Ex): At 11th level, the attack penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by –1 for a two-weapon warrior. Alternatively, he may use a one-handed weapon in his off-hand, treating it as if it were a light weapon with the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 3.

Equal Opportunity (Ex): At 13th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes an attack of opportunity, he may attack once with both his primary and secondary weapons. The penalties for attacking with two weapons apply normally. This ability replaces weapon training 3.

Perfect Balance (Ex): At 15th level, the penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by an additional –1 for a two-weapon warrior. This benefit stacks with improved balance. If he is using a one-handed weapon in his off hand, treating it as a light weapon, he uses the normal light weapon penalties. This ability replaces armor training 4.

Deft Doublestrike (Ex): At 17th level, when a two-weapon warrior hits an opponent with both weapons, he can make a disarm or sunder attempt (or trip, if one or both weapons can be used to trip) against that opponent as an immediate action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. This ability replaces weapon training 4.

Deadly Defense (Ex): At 19th level, when a two-weapon warrior makes a full attack with both weapons, every creature that hits him with a melee attack before the beginning of his next turn provokes an attack of opportunity from the warrior. This ability replaces armor mastery.

Is there a good chance I'll survive, or am I likely to be wiped out? :/

The highest character level our group has ever reached is 6....and that was in Legacy of Fire.

I'm currently undecided on what I should swap out for Weapon Focus, as I feel Weapon Specialisation is essential to my build. Maybe I don't need improved initiative? I dunno.


Re adjust your stats especially if you need to optimize in your campaign...you can not survive in melee with 10 con in the average campaign especially if you don't have a monster ac(which you wont because of dual wielding). I love the role playing flavor of making Spartacus the thinking man and leader but if points are at a premium you might have to tone that down. Depending on which version of Spartacus you basing him off of you might not need them anyway. The key though is that Spartacus was a successful gladiator(even more then that a champion) He needs to own in melee to get the feel right.


Ah, I'm going for the one from the Starz TV Show. :p

Shall I just swap my Charisma score with my Con, then swap my Charisma score with my Wis, giving me 14 Con, 12 Charisma and 10 Wis?

His AC won't at all be high, so now at least he might have more of a chance to survive. :)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

I would put the 10 in Cha, and the 12 in Wis, and the 14 in Con. Fighters need to be tough and wise, but they don't NEED personality...you can even roleplay it.


SmiloDan wrote:
I would put the 10 in Cha, and the 12 in Wis, and the 14 in Con. Fighters need to be tough and wise, but they don't NEED personality...you can even roleplay it.

Problem with that is, if I have no bonus in Charisma, I can't really play a Charismatic character because my DM/GM likes us to roleplay the character as their stats show.

I don't think a charismatic lacking Spartacus could be seen as a leader. :/

Andoran

The Showtime (Starz TV) Spartacus is a barbarian/fighter[Unarmed] with Raging Vitality, Deathless Initiate, Power Attack, Combat Expertise and Renewed Vigor.

CON 10? Ah, no. He has crap-tons of hit-points; gets his butt whipped in the pit time-after-time (crappy AC; always getting hit), then shakes his bloody head, gets up and kills everything in a red-haze.

20pt build:

STR:14
DEX:14
CON+17
INT:14
WIS:07
CHA:12

Spartacus is stronger and more nimble than many but by no means most other gladiators; what keeps him going is his capacity to both avoid fatigue during battle and absorb injury. He's likeable, tactically aware, and learns fast. His greatest weakness is gullibility, especially as towards societal superiors.

In a no-magic world, he kicks ass. In Pathfinder, he'd be Charmed in an instant.


Haha, nice analogy!

Seeing as he's a Two-Weapon Warrior, I don't think it'd be good to multi-class him, but a lot of the abilities I've chosen above require Dex. One in particular needs a good amount of it (19!) and that's the third and final off-hand attack!

Still, if somebody could come up with a Two-Weapon Warrior Barbarian Build that actually functions well, I'd love to see it! :D

Andoran

Barbarian/monk[martial artist] then. Gets pseudo TWF without insane DEX requirements (but DEX still higher than WIS; martial-artists don't get Ki, so not a priority stat). Still mostly barbarian (doesn't have I-TWF).


You can play spartacus as a straight fighter and have the.decent CHA of a leader. Check out my profile for a 4th level version. I am currently pairing Scimitar and cestus (because you can't twf as a standard action till later). You could twin the gladius from level 1 but then moving sucks. At low levels use a Medium primary weapon and 2 hand power attack when you move or AOO.

For better ac the trait defender of the society makes breastplate (which batiatus buys him) into a +7AC armor. Plus high dex and defensive flurry your AC is good.

The full build is at the end of my handbook.
Search: Str Rangers guide to twf for fighters or look in the guide to the guides.


Ah, hello STR_Ranger. You've helped me multiple times before, especially with my Devil Killing Cleric, Vatrinax. :p

Your stats are really quite cool for what I want to do with him, but if I change what I've got too much, I might have to rebuild the feat loadout.

I was going to go with both the Barbarian and Fighter Pathfinder Society traits (for my other character), so I know of the trait. It seemed like a pretty decent idea.

Agile breastplate would cost too much at level 1, so for theme purposes, should I start off with leather armour, then purchase Agile Breastplate when I can afford it? I think in the show he went from no armour, to leather armour, to breastplate, so it'd work.

I'd really like to two-weapon the Gladius' for level 1 as although I prefer the Scimitar for the High Crit range, Spartacus only ever fought with Gladius', so thematically, I'd prefer to stick with the twin Gladius idea.

Thanks for the pointers!


As for flavor, I would go with Indomitable instead of TWF. It's an ok path, and it really sticks with the image from the show.

Also, I would give him those stats (with a 20pt buy since that's what you used):

STR 18: He's strong
DEX 15: He's fast
CON 16: He's tough
INT 7: He's incredibly stupid
WIS 7: ...And usually foolish as well
CHA 11: But people follow him anyway


Mike Schneider wrote:
The Showtime (Starz TV) Spartacus is a barbarian/fighter[Unarmed] with Raging Vitality, Deathless Initiate, Power Attack, Combat Expertise and Renewed Vigor.

+1


Mike Schneider wrote:
The Showtime (Starz TV) Spartacus is a barbarian/fighter[Unarmed] with Raging Vitality, Deathless Initiate, Power Attack, Combat Expertise and Renewed Vigor.

Three levels Fighter, 17 Barb then?

The problem with Deathless Initiate is that you have to be an Orc or Half-Orc to use it.


The other problem is you are below 0. Which in the show will kill you when rage ends. Is this for a no/low magic game?


Nope, just your typical Adventure Path.

This character and my Barb/Two-Handed Fighter are backup's for it. The campaign is Kingmaker which we'll be starting on Thursday. :)

I just want a decent two-weapon warrior and am pretty happy with what I came up with above, but I just want to stay true to Spartacus' character.

I wouldn't say he lacks intellect or wisdom. He's a leader and a successful one at that, so would need to be smart and wise in order to effectively strategise his battle plan.


Why not the gladiator archetype?


Because building a character around performance away from an arena is both strange and too much work for the GM. If there are no crowds, performance moves and abilities are pointless.

I don't personally like the perform idea either, because it's too limited to arena based combat and just complicates things.


I'd really like to two-weapon the Gladius' for level 1 as although I prefer the Scimitar for the High Crit range, Spartacus only ever fought with Gladius', so thematically, I'd prefer to stick with the twin Gladius idea.

Thanks for the pointers!

The swords he uses in the arena aren't gladius's notice the curved blades(although he does use them in training some times)...there also slashing swords gladius is strictly designed for stabbing...This could be them just not understanding how the sword would actually work on the show but he isn't using a gladius...


You got CHA right (yeah, you all thought I'd never go for a high CHA Fighter), but I think INT is where you can save some points. I'd drop that down to 8 and take your 5 extra points and put 'em towards STR.


Chaos - Yea, he seems to use either two Falchion's or two Falcata's (they look alike) in pictures, but he always trains with twin Gladius swords, so maybe it's just easier to stick with those. Scimitars would be nice though.

Loaba - Only problem with that is I then wouldn't be able to get Combat Expertise and all of the Trip and Disarm feat chains. They're kind of essential as he knocks people down, disarms them and kicks them (300 style).


Bandavaar the Brave wrote:
Loaba - Only problem with that is I then wouldn't be able to get Combat Expertise and all of the Trip and Disarm feat chains. They're kind of essential as he knocks people down, disarms them and kicks them (300 style).

Well that is a good point. Ol' Spartacus is definitely trying to rock two very different Feat chains that require a lot of tax.


A man trying to accomplish too many things at once! :p

Quick question - When it comes down to retraining feats, does it cost a feat to retrain a feat, or can I use the Fighter ability say....at level 9 to gain my level 9 feat and retrain something like Cleave for Combat Reflexes in my level 1 slot? It's something I'm unsure of, but being a Fighter, it might be an idea to build it around the option of retraining feats. :)


i guess its said alot in these kinds of threads, but you probably need to focus on one part of his character which is most important to you, in terms of helping you portray the kind of character he is.

if that makes sense.

cos pathfinder, and point buy especially, doesnt do well at re-creating typically strong, agile, tough, wise, smart, charismatic, and skilled show heroes :)


st00ji wrote:

i guess its said alot in these kinds of threads, but you probably need to focus on one part of his character which is most important to you, in terms of helping you portray the kind of character he is.

if that makes sense.

cos pathfinder, and point buy especially, doesnt do well at re-creating typically strong, agile, tough, wise, smart, charismatic, and skilled show heroes :)

Yea, I guess it'd be unfair if you could be good at all stats. :p

Maybe it's best if I stick mainly to my original build, but just tweak a few things then. Disarming and Tripping seem like good choices!

Swapping my Con and Wisdom scores around seems to be a good idea, then I'll focus my favoured class into HP and take it from there. A potential 12hp every level seems relatively good.

I'm a little torn as to which of the following two builds would work better:

Str: 14
Dex: 16
Con: 14
Wis: 10
Int: 13
Cha: 12

Or

Str: 16
Dex: 15
Con: 12
Wis: 10
Int: 13
Cha: 13

The top one has more HP and less Strength, where as the bottom one has more Strength and less HP. Dex will stay the same though, as that's all I'm boosting through the level up process.


Take Leadership to get a cohort and followers, all of whom will follow you around and shout "No, I am Spartacus!"


Haha! They would all be wrong, because I would be Spartacus! :p

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

You can dump Int, then take levels of barbarian, and take Rage Powers that knock down opponents and stuff.


Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

I just want a decent two-weapon warrior and am pretty happy with what I came up with above, but I just want to stay true to Spartacus' character.

I wouldn't say he lacks intellect or wisdom. He's a leader and a successful one at that, so would need to be smart and wise in order to effectively strategise his battle plan.

We're talking about the HBO Spartacus, right ? The loudmouth who manages to antagonize just about everybody, is too damn gullible, wouldn't recognize a lie if you beat him to death with it, and does stupid things just because he's angry ?

...yeah, dump Int and wis :D


Bandavaar - what you have to do is identify the two traits that Spartacus definitely has and can't do with out. That's gonna be DEX (because of TWF) and CHA (because he clearly an above-average leader-type guy.) Everything else just kind of falls into place after that.

10 - STR: 16 - you're a melee-guy, you HAVE to have strength
7 - DEX: 17 (15+2) - I believe this meets the minimum TWF requirement
5 - CON: 14 - you have to be able to take a hit.
-2 - INT: 8 - this is where you pay the tax man. :(
0 - WIS: 10 - don't need wisdom, it's just not one of his qualities
5 - CHA: 14 - +2 charisma is nothing to sneeze at. People listen when you speak.

Or there is this...

7 - STR: 15 - you're a melee-guy, you HAVE to have strength. This is now your "pump" stat.
7 - DEX: 17 (15+2) - I believe this meets the minimum TWF requirement
5 - CON: 14 - you have to be able to take a hit.
3 - INT: 13 - now you can pay the extra Feat tax.
-2 - WIS: 8 - don't need wisdom, that's why the Romans beat you in the end.
5 - CHA: 14 - +2 charisma is nothing to sneeze at. People listen when you speak.

As a Fighter you should have enough Feats to get what you want, but you're gonna have to be careful choosing when you to take certain things. I'd work TWF at the lower levels and then work on the trip stuff later on.


Remember he wasn't born a gladiator, he was a warrior previous to his enslavement who led other warriors in battle. As in, he wasn't lvl 1 when the show starts, he was already battle tested. I would stick to 2 handing a weapon at first, and would definitely consider a str ranger... again remembering he was not a cultured man, he should have some survival skills. Even if just a couple levels.


Stubs McKenzie wrote:
Remember he wasn't born a gladiator, he was a warrior previous to his enslavement who led other warriors in battle. As in, he wasn't lvl 1 when the show starts, he was already battle tested. I would stick to 2 handing a weapon at first, and would definitely consider a str ranger... again remembering he was not a cultured man, he should have some survival skills. Even if just a couple levels.

This is another reason why fictional characters are so hard to render in a game like PF. Spartacus does have a backstory that can't really be portrayed as well as you'd like at 1st level. Having said that, Fighter is as likely a class as any (though the Romans might insist on Barbarian.)


He was from a wild, but conquered province if I remember correctly? His people were once considered barbarians, but were now citizens of the empire (though would never be considered "true" Romans)... they were fighting off the barbarian horde, so while "civilized roman culture may have called them barbarians, his people were more nature-y and less rage-y... again, if I am remembering correctly.

I think PF is a great way to reinvent a popular characters rise, but I agree making the character pound for pound identical is far more difficult, mostly because of the leveling system. Want to make him as he was when he came to the arena? Lvl 4 is probably about right. After his training in the house, or after his first fight, lvl 5 (right about the time he could start to accomplish serious feats). If I created him as an NPC, I would make him a str ranger (I think) until his capture, then 1 level of fighter at 5? Am at work, so hard to pin it down... but that's my initial thought.


Stubs McKenzie wrote:
He was from a wild, but conquered province if I remember correctly? His people were once considered barbarians, but were now citizens of the empire (though would never be considered "true" Romans)... they were fighting off the barbarian horde, so while "civilized roman culture may have called them barbarians, his people were more nature-y and less rage-y... again, if I am remembering correctly.

He was a Thracian, which is modern-day Bulgaria (I think).


Which would mean his people were conquered from anywhere between about the time of christ to 180 AD? Or so...

Which would support my thoughts on him being from a wild but conquered area... where roman rule was nearly non-existent.


Stubs McKenzie wrote:

He was from a wild, but conquered province if I remember correctly? His people were once considered barbarians, but were now citizens of the empire (though would never be considered "true" Romans)... they were fighting off the barbarian horde, so while "civilized roman culture may have called them barbarians, his people were more nature-y and less rage-y... again, if I am remembering correctly.

Historically speaking I believe Rome was still a Republic at the time of Spartacus.


Sorry guys, it's a 20 point buy. I should have said that instead of just assuming you'd know by my posted stats.

Anyway, I feel Two-Weapon Warrior is the way forward. I haven't really thought about multi-classing because I need as many feats as I can get to make this work.

Disarming and Tripping is the way forward for Spartacus. Although, I do agree about adding in Barbarian. I'm just not too sure if it's worth swapping out of Fighter for one level or not.

As for Str Ranger, I'm not really familiar with the concept, other than the fact it does what it says on the tin...makes a ranger strength based.

His main abilities are Knockbacks and Trips, with the occasional Disarming. :)


Bandavaar the Brave wrote:

Sorry guys, it's a 20 point buy. I should have said that instead of just assuming you'd know by my posted stats.

Okay.

5 - STR: 14
7 - DEX: 17 (15+2)
2 - CON: 12
3 - INT: 13
-2 - WIS: 8
5 - CHA: 14

I still stand by Fighter, 'cause you're gonna need the Feats. :)


That was my plan. :p

Straight Two-Weapon Warrior gives me the most feats possible, so should allow me to be pretty versatile, though maybe it wouldn't hurt to go two level's Barb, just for a Rage Power.

I'm still thinking it's best to stick with Fighter only though, as unless you're trying to make a very specialised character by blending lots of classes together, usually sticking with one class seems to work best.


Nice thing about ranger is you get TWF without having to have the prerequisite dex score.... allows you to bump other stats (str) higher, which in this case allows a +1 to +3 (depending on stat allotment) to hit on every swing regardless of weapon. AC is still achieved through a BP, and other magical goodies, and feats you would have spent anyways are (somewhat) made up for. The base str upgrade + favored enemy gives a great to hit/damage boost for TWF. It also makes getting diehard easy as you get endurance as a bonus feat which I think work really well for a gladiator.... but again, it all depends on what you want to play :) will stop harping on ranger now :P


If you are so sold on Combat Manuveres I'd maybe look at the Lore Warden. You lose Heavy Armor (which you didn't care about anyway), get Combat Expertise for free at 2 (without needing the Int Preq, so Int could be 10)

Using Lore Warden you get
4 skills per level (2 must be spent on Knowledge)
1 for Human, 1 for favored. So 6 per level. Pretty good for a fighter.

Also you seem set on Trip and Disarm, you NEED Combat expertise for that so Lore warden saved you a feat (Look at IronWill)

For example:
Str 16 (pump this to 20)
Dex 16 (level this to 17)
Con 14
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 12

Traits: Purity of Faith (+1 to will, +1 to all saves vs evil outsiders)
Another - havent found an awesome one yet. Maybe reactionary.

LW1- TWF, Wpn Focus: Gladius
LW2- Combat Expertise, Power Attack
LW3 and so on...

The best bit about lore warden is the +8 you get added to your CM's as you level amd it even stackswith weapon training. This archetype has the highest CMB you can get (except a str surge barbarian) so Disarm and Trip will stay relevant alot longer. Know thy enemy is also good. Id a creature and get a +2 buff. Awesome.

The big weakness over a two weapon warrior is you never get the ability to combine twf with a move. This is sad but not the end of everything. Just trip them when you move to close, then twf them to death. Plus you'll be more versatile, weapon wise since you get normal weapon training. Make glaidius (close) your first group and Bows your second.


I love the show, & am rewatching the 1st season right now, so here's my two cents....

At the beginning of the series, Spartacus (like all Thracians) is a barbarian - perhaps one of the more civilized barbarian cultures, but a barbarian nonetheless. The Thracians are not actually Roman subjects, as the Romans are trying to convince them to join, rather than just ordering them into battle. He is definitely raging in battle on multiple occasions - you'll never convince me otherwise that he didn't go into a barbarian rage in his 1st arena fight against Selonius' 4 gladiators....

Also, keep in mind he didn't start with TWF, he started his training with the gladius & shield. It wasn't until Batiatus declared him the new champion of Capua (Crixus was severely injured) that he started the TWF training. This was over halfway through season one, so everyone's jumping the gun by giving TWF @ 1st level...

I think physical stats would look something like this: STR of around 15 or 16 - he's in good shape, but he's not the biggest or strongest dude; DEX of 14 to 15 (it gets better later with training, also 15 is the required for basic TWF); CON 17 to 18 - that gladiator training is brutal!; INT of maybe 12 - he's reasonably intelligent, but there's nothing to indicate anything extraordinary; WIS only 9 or 10 - he may have decent ranks in perception, but he clearly doesn't know how to read people or make smart decisions; CHA of 13, maybe 14 - he's fairly charismatic, but he's also totally capable of alienating everyone he meets, even friends.

Running out of time, so I'll have to comment on feats & such later, if anyone's interested....


Another good point consider his plan to escape the ludus with his wife. Varro points out some pretty obvious holes straight away and Spartacus admits it has flaws but resolves to do it anyway. Not particularly wise or smart.


Synjon makes an excellent case for staring with one level of Barbie, but in the interest of what's best for the Pathfinder PC, I maintain that straight Fighter is your best choice. For what the character does, you just plain need as many Feats as you can get your hands on.

/ If you wanted to go Half-elf, then one level of Barbie would be kinda cool.

// I'm a big believer in Favored Class.

Andoran

Bandavaar the Brave wrote:
Mike Schneider wrote:
The Showtime (Starz TV) Spartacus is a barbarian/fighter[Unarmed] with Raging Vitality, Deathless Initiate, Power Attack, Combat Expertise and Renewed Vigor.
Three levels Fighter, 17 Barb then?
I don't do level-20 builds. He has enough fighter levels for weapon-training in "monk" (such as cestus, which he uses frequently).
Quote:
The problem with Deathless Initiate is that you have to be an Orc or Half-Orc to use it.
In an earth setting, a non-roman "barbarian" race would quality.
STR Ranger wrote:
The other problem is you are below 0. Which in the show will kill you when rage ends.

Raging Vitality eliminates that problem.


Is it not better to go with a Two-Weapon Fighter for this though, as it reduces the Attack Bonus penalties and gives you lots of extra options?

Also, you'd get three feats at level 1, because 1's for Human, 1's because you're level 1 and another's because a Fighter gets a Bonus feat. :p


For what you're doing there are 3 standout options.

Lore Warden- by far the best at manuveres (+8from class, +4 from weapon training, +2 from duelist gloves) and Combat expertise for free, without needing a high int, 4 skills per level.
And know thy enemy is like +2 to attack and damage when you focus on one foe (this could simulate spartacus's rage)

You get normal Weapon Training so pick gladius as your preffered weapon amd Bow 2nd. That way, unlike alot of Melee builds you won't suck at ranged.

Weakness: Moving in combat will suck, since you only get one attack on a move.
Typical action should be:
1. Move in and Trip foe.
2. Two Weapon Fight your prone (-4AC) opponent (substituting an attack to disarm via Breakguard) and AOO his a$$ when he gets up.

Dawnflower Dervish-
Gets normal weapon training, so again, doesn't suck if he has to use a bow.
When he gets rapid assault, he gives up his first primary, but can full attack at the end of a move. So basically full attacks all the time. Nowhere near as good at manuveres as the Lore Warden in exchange for DPR.

The Lore Warden can control the fight alot better. Dervish winsnthe dpr.race.

3rd is the two weapon warrior. Highest DPR on a full attack. Highest DPR on crits
Falls between the Dervish (Attacks 3+ times) and the Warden.(attacks once) when combining an Attack with a Move cause he Attacks twice.

Again Thematically, I'd go with a 10 Int Lore Warden for Spartacus.


Okay, so if I were to go Lore Warden (it's tempting, though I really do like the Two-Weapon Warrior), how much would the builds stats differ, because I'm thinking I'd have more of a penalty for duel wielding if I didn't go Two-Weapon Warrior as the TWW reduces off hand penalties.

Maybe I should make some builds to compare the two.


Well, they are about two different things, click the avatar to see scores and traits

TWW is all about pinning a foe down and doing massive damage.
Here's a 20 level progession:

Orc Blooded TWW:
TWF, Weapon Fcs: Scimitar, Iron Will
2Bravery, Power Attack
3-Defensive Flurry +1, Improved Iron Will
4-Weapon Specialization: Scimitar
5-Twin Blades +1, Skill Fcs: Survival
6-ITWF
7-Defensive Flurry +2, Lunge
8-Gtr Wpn Fcs: Scimitar, Swap Lunge for Imp Crit
9-Twin Blades +2, Double strike, Eldritch Heritage-Orc Touch of Rage
10- Doubleslice
11-Improved Balance (-1/-1), Defensive Flurry +3, Quicken SLA- Touch of Rage
12-Dazing Assault, Retrain Imp Crit for TWR
13-Twin Blades +3, Equal Opportunity, Improved Eldritch Heritage-Strength of the Beast +2
14-Combat Reflexes
15-Perfect Balance (0/0), Defensive Flurry +4, Gtr Wpn Spl, Strength of The Beast +4
16-Pin down, Retrain Dazing Assault for Stunning Assault
17-Twin Blades +4, Deft Double strike Eldritch Heritage-Power of Giants, Strength of the Beast +6
18-GTWF
19-Deadly Defense, Defensive Flurry +5, Quicken SLA-Power of Giants
20-Weapon Master, Lunge

Now this build is about pure damage. He sunk 5 feats into the orc bloodline to get:
+6 Inherent to STR
Can use touch of Rage on self as a swift. Now Imagine wielding 2 speed scimitars for nine attacks, and adding +10 to attack and damage?! On top of all the normal stuff, that single full attack will Kill any CR foe in 1 round.
Can also swift Giant Size.

His only means of Battle Control is pin down and Dazing Assault.
Example- run up and Doublestrike (2 attacks+rend+save or daze), IF they fail, they lose a turn and eat.your full attack next round. They die.

If they pass then.withdrawing or a.5.ft step provokes and you can hit them 2x.with Equal Oppurtunity. They now need.to save again.

Very unlikely to pass 2 saves of that DC per round.
If they do save and are happy to Trade blows they avoid your AOO, but are in a game of rocket tag with you (swift Touch of.Rage and they die)

The Lore.Warden on the other.hand.would.be quite different.
Not 100% but forget the Orc bloodline.
Probably Imp Disarm (not gtr, you want the.weapon to land at thier feet so they stay adjacent.and provoke when they pick it up.) Definately Breakguard.
Imp, Gtr trip

Andoran

*Jeez*

Watch the show, guys.

He rages.


I don't suppose you can get a Human - Orc Blooded one of those?

Nice build though. The rage ability and damage output's awesome! Thanks for sharing!

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