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Improved Familiar Reincarnated.


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

So what happens when this is done? If you cast reincarnate upon a dead familiar, more importantly, an improved one, what happens? Do you use a table of same type creatures? A list of improved familiars? The original list? I really would like to find what the RAW is here. Does anyone know?


By RAW:

Reincarnation from PRD wrote:
For a humanoid creature, the new incarnation is determined using the table below. For nonhumanoid creatures, a similar table of creatures of the same type should be created.

Looks like you need a new list. I don't know of a source for such a list - looks like something a 3PP could do or be provided by the community.

Ruyan.


hmm the thought of getting an elf familiar would be interesting.

I can't imagine my silvanshee being impressed with the change. or a troglodyge, for that matter.

On a slightly more serious note though- what about reincarnating an imp or silvanshee? Assuming the Dm allowed it- what would a "similar creature" be?

for the silvanshee would you have a chance of going from super outside to regular feline? (indeed, one who potentially just forgot how to fly or talk or any of that other fun stuff)

Or would you have a shot at getting any agathion? or just maybe a silvanshee with a different hairdo?

(of course, pseudo-dragon reincarnations could be more fun.. reincarnate one and end up with what- a wyrmling dragon? a drake maybe? a wyvern? the possibilities are frighteningly interesting)

-S


Reincarnating non-native outsiders is right out.

PRD: Creature Types - Outsider wrote:
Unlike most living creatures, an outsider does not have a dual nature—its soul and body form one unit. When an outsider is slain, no soul is set loose. Spells that restore souls to their bodies, such as raise dead, reincarnate, and resurrection, don't work on an outsider. It takes a different magical effect, such as limited wish, wish, miracle, or true resurrection to restore it to life. An outsider with the native subtype can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be.

As for the rest,

PRD: Familiars wrote:
Only a normal, unmodified animal may become a familiar.

combined with

PRD: Familiars wrote:
If a familiar is dismissed, lost, or dies, it can be replaced 1 week later through a specialized ritual

may give you trouble depending on if the DM sees the replacement as mandatory or not.


There the Raise Animal Companion spell, which specifically also works on familiars.

You could argue now that it only works on normal familiars and not the improved ones, but especially with outsiders you can flavor the replacement ritual as some sort of ressurection, or "the outsider went back to its homeplane, and now I'm calling it again".
Yes that's not how it works by RAW, thats why i said flavor it like that.


Quatar wrote:

There the Raise Animal Companion spell, which specifically also works on familiars.

Still doesn't work on any outsider familiars, due to it working like raise dead, but otherwise this would probably work. It's just still up to your DM if the replacement is mandatory or not.

Quatar wrote:
but especially with outsiders you can flavor the replacement ritual as some sort of ressurection, or "the outsider went back to its homeplane, and now I'm calling it again".

Actually I can't find any references in pathfinder to this being the norm for outsiders. They seem to just die, relatively permanently, when killed. Specific means of summoning these creatures to the material plane grant exceptions, but it is by no means the standard rule. I have no idea when this change occurred. Was this a 3rd edition thing or is it new to Pathfinder?

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Companion, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Actually the difference between being summoned and called, even if not so well defined, was already there in 1st edition.
A summoned outside wasn't killed even then. One whose body was on the first material plane (what now is a called outsider) could be killed. Usually the strongest outsider were immune to being killed on the prime material plane and was necessary to kill them on their home plane to eliminate them permanently. Even then some of them could reform after a time.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

There is nothing stopping one from casting this spell on a dead familiar. I am just curious as to the results. I know constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated. There are others that do not fall into these lists, and a different list is needed. How do you go about creating this list?


Well, I know I'm the one who originally suggested it. But I think it would likely be up to the GM. I am not aware of any list currently existing.

Were you going to tell the thread goers about the witch? Or were you not planning on going that route anymore?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
There is nothing stopping one from casting this spell on a dead familiar. I am just curious as to the results. I know constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can't be reincarnated. There are others that do not fall into these lists, and a different list is needed. How do you go about creating this list?

My suggestion would be to use the list of Improved Familiar choices. This disregards the whole 'same type' part of reincarnation, but it will ensure that there are a number of different possibilities while all being appropriate balance-wise.

Personally I would add in a few choices that are a bit more or less powerful and flavourwise cool or disgusting, just to get the gambling bit of reincarnation.


I think, things are a little bit more complicated - what do you do concerning alignment?
A NG char with a CE (improved) familiar? Doesn't work by RAW.

Ruyan.


I was going to say the same thing. There are few improved familiars that are even compatible with any given alignment in the first place. Although I suppose that while it's species changes that it's alignment may not.

I don't really have a solution. If it happened in one of my games I would likely sit down with the player and come up with some acceptable possibilities.

If I'm not mistaken though didn't you have another means of obtaining a hardier body for your familiar?


Josh Hodges wrote:
Quatar wrote:

There the Raise Animal Companion spell, which specifically also works on familiars.

Still doesn't work on any outsider familiars, due to it working like raise dead, but otherwise this would probably work. It's just still up to your DM if the replacement is mandatory or not.

It would be easy to infer that a familiar outsider is a 'native' outsider... especially if its been around for a bit. At which point it can be raised just fine.

(I seem to recall in the old Shackled City campaign setting, there was a big Glabrezu demon that had gotten itself stuck on the prime material, and had been there for 80 years or so, and had become a native outsider as a result... So some precedence for this kind of ruling).

mileage may vary.


Throw together a list of low CR creatures of the same type. For example, a fey familiar might be reincarnated as any of the fey familiars or could also become something like a grig.

Of course, that won't work for every type. There aren't enough low CR dragons for the dragon type familiars.

Star Voter 2014

You also have to question whether the new creature is still a familiar if it reincarnates as something that can't normally be a familiar (even an improved one). Does the bond survive that? Or does it fail?

Really, this is all GM house-rule territory.

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