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Maneuver Master Bonus Feat clarification


Rules Questions

Sczarni

2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

quick question...

Maneuver Master wrote:
In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat. At 6th level and above, he may select any Greater combat maneuver feat (such as Greater Grapple) as a bonus feat. At 10th level and above, he may select any maneuver Strike feat (such as Tripping Strike) as a bonus feat.

I take this to mean that the Maneuver Master gets an extra bonus feat at levels 1, 6, and 10.

Therefore a 1st level Human Maneuver Master could have all of the following;
(H): Improved Initiative
(1st): Toughness
(Monk Bonus): Improved Grapple
(Maneuver Bonus): Improved Trip
(Class feature): Stunning Fist
(Class feature): Improved Unarmed Strike

Is that correct? Or is the above quote supposed to mean that a Manuever Master can add the 'improved' combat maneuvers to the list of choices for their bonus feat? Additionally, if this text is meant to augment the text for the base class is it safe to assume that the Monk need not meet the prerequisites of these additional 'improved' combat maneuver bonus feats?

Thanks in advance!

Shadow Lodge

The 'improved' combat maneuvers are added to the bonus feat pool.

The MM monk need not meet the pre-reqs for the bonus feats.


are you asking if you get an aditional feat?
no, you dont. you get to choose if you pick you monk feat from the MM monk choices or the monk list from the CRB.

so one monk feat at level 1 and one at level 2 then 6 then 10 ect...

h I inititive
1 toughtness
m I grapple
LEVEL 2
m (insert feat here)

Sczarni

My gut tells me that you are both correct, but my head tells me that it could have been worded better.

maneuver master wrote:
In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat.

The words "in addition" seem to apply that you get an extra bonus feat.

Had they have inserted 1 measly word it would make it much more clear;

"In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select from any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat."


To the OP, you are correct. As Written, the text states you gain those as a bonus feat, which means a monk would gain two bonus feats, one from his normal selection, and one from the Maneuver Master archetype. Granted, this probably wasn't how it was Intended, but it is how it is Written. I FAQ'd it because someone may try this in PFS and the GM can't really say no to it.

Truthfully, your one word wouldn't have fixed the issue because it still states the Monk would gains any Improved maneuver feat as a bonus feat in addition to the normal monk bonus feat. It should say something like:

"A Maneuver Master may add any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) to his list of feats available as a monk bonus feat."

The Exchange

Daryl MacLeod wrote:

My gut tells me that you are both correct, but my head tells me that it could have been worded better.

maneuver master wrote:
In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat.

The words "in addition" seem to apply that you get an extra bonus feat.

Had they have inserted 1 measly word it would make it much more clear;

"In addition to normal monk bonus feats, a maneuver master may select from any Improved combat maneuver feat (such as Improved Overrun) as a bonus feat."

our heads often let us read what we want out of something. remember the general rule for a archetype is it changes or trades something not doubles the chocolatey goodness. the way it is written is pretty definitive if you are looking for loopholes you can find them in any book. it is as clearly as necessary adding additional options to the monk bonus feat selection list. and by the way did you notice that most other archetypes just replace or remove the bonus feat. this allows you to pick improved and greater at first 2 but still take medusas wrath for your 10th level. i love maneuver master monks.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Tels wrote:
I FAQ'd it because someone may try this in PFS and the GM can't really say no to it.

You're just a tad off, regarding PFS. See, the "extra bonus feat" reading is indeed grammatically sound. I agree with you there. However, the "increase the feat pool" reading also fits within how the sentence is phrased. (It's not entirely uncommon for a sentence to be able to be read two different ways.)

And in cases where the rules are unclear (such as being able to be legitimately read two different ways), the GM has explicit power to adjudicate those rules.

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