| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just saying, when my copy of Advanced Race Guide hits my door, I am taking a permanent black marker to my Core rulebook and blacking out a ll mentions of Gnomes. Then I will do the same to the gnome pictures. Then I will recreate kobolds as a player race, and tape them in the gnome slot. And to end it all I will black out all mentioning of gnomes in the Inner Sea World Guide, and add the story of how there were once gnomes who came from the first world, but the separation drove them mad and transformed them all eventually into spriggans.
GNOMES SUCK!!!
Them's fightin' words!
Flag it and move on, folks.
Well, sir, I, as a respectable member of the badger race, disagree. Gnomes have always carried themselves with an infallible dignity with only tinges of humorous mischief. In fact, in all my time, I've only encounter one utterly crazy gnome and I believe that was by in large due to his tamperings with alchemy. For some reason he decided to dive head first into a dust digger's mouth to deliver a package of explosives, it worked, but the crazy bloke never left the creatures stomach. The whole thing was a horrible mess really.
Anyway, my point being, gnomes, in fact, do not suck. They are quite delightful, if misunderstood, denizens of the First World. I am curious as to why you hold them with such animosity though. Care to share?
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.
Just saying, when my copy of Advanced Race Guide hits my door, I am taking a permanent black marker to my Core rulebook and blacking out a ll mentions of Gnomes. Then I will do the same to the gnome pictures. Then I will recreate kobolds as a player race, and tape them in the gnome slot. And to end it all I will black out all mentioning of gnomes in the Inner Sea World Guide, and add the story of how there were once gnomes who came from the first world, but the separation drove them mad and transformed them all eventually into spriggans.
GNOMES SUCK!!!
Uh-huh, yeah, okay. Enjoy your nerdrage.
LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO MY LITTLE FRENG!!!
This is exactly the sort of bigotry that Paizo engenders with its racist campaign against short people: goblins, kobolds, dwarves and gnomes. It's time for a change.
Vive le Galt!
Nah halflings, kobolds, goblins and dwarves are fine.
Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.
That is the truth...
|
Just saying, when my copy of Advanced Race Guide hits my door, I am taking a permanent black marker to my Core rulebook and blacking out a ll mentions of Gnomes. Then I will do the same to the gnome pictures. Then I will recreate kobolds as a player race, and tape them in the gnome slot. And to end it all I will black out all mentioning of gnomes in the Inner Sea World Guide, and add the story of how there were once gnomes who came from the first world, but the separation drove them mad and transformed them all eventually into spriggans.
GNOMES SUCK!!!
I guess that you never read Gnomes of Golarion. It almost convinced me to try and play a Gnome.
I think Paizo did fine with the slight retheming of Gnomes. Still in all of my 20 years as a GM not a single of my players ever played a Gnome!
In Pathfinder so far it's about
60% Humans
20% Half-Elves*
10% Half-Orcs
05% Half-Lings
05% Dwarves
*Most who played Half-Elves would have preferred to play Elves if this race didn't suck so hard for anything but Wizard - and even then.
So, yeah, good riddance.
My wife plays nothing but gnomes now.
|
|
Funny you should start this thread. Back in the 80's I created a whole home brew campaign centered around the release of the Original creator god (unfortunatley for the world he was CE).
His first job - he destroyed all the races I thought were useless in D&D...gnomes, halflings, kobolds, goblins, etc.
I wanted a dark fantasy, nothing less than 1 hd monster camapign..turned out to be a big hit. That campaign ran from 1983 almost to present day until I switched to pathfinder. And now I suffer with a player who has a halfling rogue....sigh...
But its been fun. Love Paizo and Pathfinder!
makes plans to send the minis maniac a box full of gnome minis....
Gno-mercy, Aberzombie!
Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.
I have to respectfuly disagree. At best they come in third.
1st place goes to the Illumians
2ns place goes to the FR race called the Deep Imaraskis(sp?).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Hey now! Gnomes aren't all bad. They're great sauteed with salt, Pepper, and Cumin. They make a great main course to be followed by a good Tirisamu.
Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.That is the truth...Gully dwarves and the tinker gnomes of Mt. Nevermind come in not too far behind.
At least the Dragonlance gnomes gave us the wonderful miniature giant space hamster... :)
Threaten gully dwarves with a bath... no problem, they're gone.
I agree that tinker gnomes are a problem, but just supply them with spare parts and explosives and the problem does tend to solve itself.
I had a black-robed wizard in a Krynn campaign... he researched a Kender-specific Death Spell at a lower level, tied it to a contingency, 'If a kender comes within five feet of me where I can see it or within ten feet when outside my field of vision.'
I really hate Kender. A lot. When in Kender-infested territory, I leave claw hammers coated in contact poison lying out...
|
Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.I have to respectfuly disagree. At best they come in third.
1st place goes to the Illumians
2ns place goes to the FR race called the Deep Imaraskis(sp?).
I had done a good job of purging them from my memory, thank you very much. Now they come flooding back in all their poorly-designed, ill-conceived, rune-encircled superfluity...
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Kender... Every encounter with them has always been a plucky, kleptomaniac who won't shut up. What's worse is they've usually got a thick suit of plot armor allowing them to survive and the parasites live amongst sentient creatures stealthily pocketing the resources away. They insult everyone they can, rubbing salt into the wounds. They are the most vile of evil, and they have mystical abilities to deter the Paladin's pinging radar.
I haven't got the Advanced Race Guide yet.
So it didn't help the gnome? The pyromaniac in the APG helped if you wanted that kind of Gnome, but yes: The gnome is the weakest class. I have never seen anyone play a gnome charachter ever. I've seen people playing Halflings (and other races), but never Gnomes.
Gnomes are awesome. Dig them.
DIG THEM FOREVER!!!
I had done a good job of purging them from my memory, thank you very much. Now they come flooding back in all their poorly-designed, ill-conceived, rune-encircled superfluity...Akshually, KENDER rate Worst Race Ever.I have to respectfuly disagree. At best they come in third.
1st place goes to the Illumians
2ns place goes to the FR race called the Deep Imaraskis(sp?).
I had to play one for a Soulknife build I had... if I could have played something else, I would have. Immediately.
And for someone like me, that loves rune magic and such, that is quite the statement.
So yeah, sorry guys, but if this were a voting thread, I'd place it here. Gnomes are okay in my book.
KENDER RULE!!! 11!!!1!!eleventy one
I have banned gnomes from my homebrew setting. Gnomes completely ruin my suspension of disbelief. All I can see when I think of gnomes are those Trolls dolls. WoW's incarnation of the race has done nothing to help that.
They're dumb as a concept: fey creatures (I would sooner put elves on the list with fey) that live underground (wait, isn't that a dwarf thing?) who have a penchant for "science!" Oh, and they have 'open-palette' color schemes that may result in epileptic fits* if you stare too long.
*: These fits may actually just be uncontrolled rage on my part. YMMV.
James Jacob's love of gnomes and dislike of dwarves (while not indicative of Paizo's views as a company) are a black stain on Pathfinder's otherwise immaculate visage where I am concerned.
Of course, I jest. Kind of. Not much.
My wife plays gnomes almost exclusively. I don't mind them.
And screw you guys, Illumians ROCK!
|
I find gnomes a little annoying, personally. Then again, I find ALL fey annoying. All of their stories and morals and politics and even their nature is so convoluted and ridiculous...it's hard for me to wrap my head around. Except Puck. Puck was hilarious.
However, such as they are, gnomes are a staple part of Golarion. A weird part, to be sure, but a part. You know, I bet it might actually be an interesting experience to play, say, a Chelish character who is virulently racist against gnomes, ad then see how the GM handles this, and whether he'll create a valid argument in their support a la the afterschool specials, or whether or not the man's bigotry is justified. Either way, I don't usually play gnomes. They weird me out too much, and I can never get the personalities down anyway. I don't mind their existence though. Like how I don't mind the existence of lovercraftian horrors. I don't like them, sure, but I don't like rap music too. Me talking about it won't make it go away or impact it, so I just tolerate its existence and choose not to listen to it on my own time. *Shrugs*
Besides, if you're talkin' small races, Ratfolk is the wave of the future! Zoom! Fwoosh!
I haven't got the Advanced Race Guide yet.
So it didn't help the gnome? The pyromaniac in the APG helped if you wanted that kind of Gnome, but yes: The gnome is the weakest class. I have never seen anyone play a gnome charachter ever. I've seen people playing Halflings (and other races), but never Gnomes.
Odd. Roughly 20% gnome players around here. Very popular (the Golarion kind). Never run as befuddled scientists ever, too (that was one of the worst Dragonlance clichees ever anyway), but as Astronomers, Oracles, even a very fun Barbarian. Current campaign has a gnome alchemist who might even profit too much from "prefereed class" and alternate racial abilities. Imagine a Jawa on speed^^
Nothing subterranean about the race anymore in Golarion anyway, nothing "tinkery" either. People complaining obviously do not read the available source material. Use your imagination, be crafty !Halflings on the other hand are deliberately not rescued from any harm or misery, left in slavery, denied basic humanoid rights and are never played even under threat of torture.... Last halfling played (about five years ago) was gagged and tied-up while asleep, then left tied to a hornets' nest. Freaking little boring do-gooders.
The player took the hint...
Kenders as worst player race ever ? That will be a photo finish with the common halfling which is easily as annoying.
You've got to admit the iconic gnome druid is pretty cute though.
Also, I love Kender.
|
|
Odd. Roughly 20% gnome players around here. Very popular (the Golarion kind). Never run as befuddled scientists ever, too (that was one of the worst Dragonlance clichees ever anyway), but as Astronomers, Oracles, even a very fun Barbarian. Current campaign has a gnome alchemist who might even profit too much from "prefereed class" and alternate racial abilities. Imagine a Jawa on speed^^
Nothing subterranean about the race anymore in Golarion anyway, nothing "tinkery" either. People complaining obviously do not read the available source material. Use your imagination, be crafty !Halflings on the other hand are deliberately not rescued from any harm or misery, left in slavery, denied basic humanoid rights and are never played even under threat of torture.... Last halfling played (about five years ago) was gagged and tied-up while asleep, then left tied to a hornets' nest. Freaking little boring do-gooders.
The player took the hint...
Kenders as worst player race ever ? That will be a photo finish with the common halfling which is easily as annoying.
That's odd. I've seen plenty of people play Halflings before, and I never had an especial problem with gnomes being the tinkering sort either? Aren't they still? I mean, they have to keep lie exciting, and isn't one way to maintain excitement by working towards creating new things? They still have all of the racial bonuses to support that...ah well...
Just saying, when my copy of Advanced Race Guide hits my door, I am taking a permanent black marker to my Core rulebook and blacking out a ll mentions of Gnomes. Then I will do the same to the gnome pictures. Then I will recreate kobolds as a player race, and tape them in the gnome slot. And to end it all I will black out all mentioning of gnomes in the Inner Sea World Guide, and add the story of how there were once gnomes who came from the first world, but the separation drove them mad and transformed them all eventually into spriggans.
GNOMES SUCK!!!
I support this, because this indirectly supports kobolds...
No I don't have to admit that abominable druid is cute. She looks pretty terrible actually. Gnomes are annoying plain and simple, I like the idea of city dwelling kobolds almost like vermin, and barely tolerated by other races as a suitable replacement.
We are many, we are small,
we will eat Jeremy whole!
|
|
I actually love Gnomes, and play one quite often. Pathfinder Gnomes, in particular, are a great joy for me. Actually, before PF, I didn't hate Gnome so much as I didn't even consider it---it all seemed very "Dwarf-lite" to me.
But I really like the new fluff, and nothing touches a Gnome bard.
Kender still suck, though. If for no other reason than because it is impossible to find a player who won't play them in the most disruptive way possible.
That's odd. I've seen plenty of people play Halflings before, and I never had an especial problem with gnomes being the tinkering sort either? Aren't they still? I mean, they have to keep lie exciting, and isn't one way to maintain excitement by working towards creating new things? They still have all of the racial bonuses to support that...ah well...
Nothing in the support material (say "Gnomes of Golarion")indicates the clichee "they tinker and bomb/blow things up" pince-nez stereotype AFAIK.
There are thousands of ways to keep life exciting without sitting in a workshop all day. Examples from our group : Extreme sportsman, always looking for personal challenges; Astronomer and fetishist for light bending, sat around for hours to study the light changing the colours of lightscapes and taking notes on that. Aspired to be a great painter. The Oracle of Fire was an avid traveler and dancer. Another gnome got his jollies from cheating at games of cards/chance, often in ingenous ways. the "Jawa" Alchemist, while very traditional in his "blow stuff up" regards the world as his laboratory. He also blames his youth in a gnomish flowershop doing creative Ikebana and funerary wreathes.
Current pirate campaign (/just off the launch) has a mwangi-based "Oracle of Life" Gnome who has several vows to experience the world(s). All of it ! ...and eat/drink samples of it ! Even those with sideeffects. So far (two sessions) he has sampled two odd snails, an old rotten-through cork and licked a jetty pole because it was described "it glitters eerily in the light of dawn".....
Halflings : They never interested me, and most people I know/speak to, regard them as "kid's choice" or "clichee rural humans"... they do lack "cool", say as in the original "Dark Sun" setting
I've never seen the point of gnomes before, but I quite like what PF has done with them. Prior to this they've always been presented as "dwarves, but comical" or "halflings, but with gadgets" and never really something of their own. I still wouldn't play one, but next time I GM I have a player planning to take a gnome sorcerer, so they must have something.
Dragonlance gnomes suck the absolute worst of all. Except that in Dragonlance there are Kender.
|
|
The problem is origins.
Orcs and Halflings as they are currently understood originated with Tolkien and thus have the strength of a great fantasy epic and all of its derivatives standing behind them. Elves and Dwarves have Tolkien AND a rich mythological history.
Gnomes... not so much. The word was made up about 500 years ago to describe a sort of eighteen inch tall earth elemental. It languished in obscurity, got confused with various other fairy tale creatures, and only really became widespread in the post Disney era when Snow White-esque garden dwarves came to be called 'Gnomes'. In short, the only iconic cultural understanding of Gnomes prior to D&D were ridiculous disneyfied lawn ornaments. Hardly an auspicious beginning.
Had Tolkien continued using the name 'Gnomes' for the Noldor (i.e. 'high elves') in his published works it might have been a different story. Maybe Gnomes would be cool and Elves those ridiculous little garden fairies. As it is the Gnomes must wait for some other re-imagining to replace the ridiculous 'garden Gnome' as the standard image.
For YEARS my homebrew has been gnome free since I removed them from available races in favor of races that are cool, like orcs and ogres. Now I switch to Pathfinder and Golarion and what happens in the very first party that gets rolled up? An f'n gnome shows up. And not just a gnome either, but a gnome that is the tank! Really people?!
...I do... have to admit that ... druid is cute. She looks pretty... [adorable] ...actually.
Creative quote editing FTW.
Speaking of kobolds though, my party has been making friends and allies with kobolds for so long that they became a part of my world's society. I was writing up a Pathfinder race conversion when I switched to Golarion. In my opinion kobolds fit a certain niche that gnomes since Dragonlance have fit in D&D. However, I never liked them.