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Sacred Fist (Cleric Archetype)


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I would like to have your opinion about this archetype. This is not a conversion of the prestige class, I just took the concept and rebuild it as an archetype. This is the final version, but still waiting for a playtest review. ==Revisited 10/23/2013==

Sacred Fist(Cleric Archetype)
(Final Version)

Sacred Fists are clerics who are also martial artists, found within many temples. Their ascetic members have turned their divine magic inward, bringing their bodies and wills into harmony. Sacred Fists have forsworn the use of weapons and armor. They consider their bodies and minds gifts from their deity, and they believe that not developing those gifts to their fullest potential is a sin. They are strong in faith, will and body.

Alignment: Any lawful.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sacred fists are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and shields (except tower shields). Sacred fists are also proficient with the favored weapon of their deities.

Skills: The Sacred fist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Diminished Spellcaster: A Sacred Fists chooses only one domain from his deity’s list of domains, and his number of non-domain spells per day for each spell level is one less than normal (for example, a 4th level Sacred Fist has three orisons, two 1st level spells, one 1st level domain spell, one 2nd level spell, and one 2nd level domain spell). If this reduces the number of spells per day for that level to 0, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to, based on his Wisdom score for that level, plus his domain spell for that level.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a sacred fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. This ability follows the rules presented in the monk’s class features. A sacred fist deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would. She deals damage with her unarmed strike as if she were a monk of her cleric level -3. However, at the 1st level, she deals damage as a 1st level monk of her size. If the sacred fist has levels in monk, this ability stacks with levels to determine how much damage she can do with her unarmed strikes. A sacred fist who selects the Two-Weapon Fighting feat gain additional benefits. She applies her full Strength bonus to her damage rolls for all successful attacks made with Two-Weapon Fighting while fighting unarmed. She uses her normal base attack bonus while using this feat.

Martial Talent: Throughout her extensive training in martial arts a sacred fist improves her mind, body and spirit. She develops techniques that allow her to learn special abilities. Most of those are normal feats, but some of them are monk abilities that only a sacred fist can learn. A sacred fist gains a martial talent at 1st level, then again at 5th level and every five levels thereafter (to a maximum of five at 20th level). These must be chosen from the following list: Blind-Fight, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Improved Grapple, and Lightning Reflexes. At 5th level, a sacred fist may also choose from the following: Maneuver Training*, Still Mind*, and Two-Weapon Fighting. At 10th level, a sacred fist may also choose from the following: High Jump*Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Mobility, and Purity of Body*. At 15th level, a sacred fist may also choose from the following: Diamond Body*, Improved Critical, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. At 20th level, a sacred fist may also choose from the following: Timeless Body*, and Tongue of the sun and moon*. Martial talents marked with an asterisk (*) are monk abilities. A sacred fist need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Ki Pool (Su): At 6th level, a sacred fist gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy she can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the sacred fist’s ki pool is equal to 1 / 3 her cleric level + her wisdom modifier. The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the sacred fist possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, ki points gained from the sacred fist class stack with those gained from the other class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is permanent. The sacred fist can use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class he possesses that grants a ki pool. As long as she has at least 1 point in her ki pool, a sacred fist can make a ki strike. At 6th level, ki strike allows her unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 8th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron and silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypass hardness.

By spending 1 point from her ki pool, a sacred fist adds +1 to the DC of the next spell she casts on her turn. In addition, she can spend 1 point to increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a sacred fist can spend 1 point from her ki pool to treat her unarmed attacks as a good weapon (if she channels positive energy) or evil weapon (if she channels negative energy) for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action.

That'a all, thank you.


Hmm that looks really cool I like it.

Shadow Lodge

I like it, too. Was curious. Did you mean for the Channeling Bolt to be a line or a ray affect? Single target or more like lightning bolt?

I might suggest a few things. Add the Ki mechanic, (so that they can actually use most of the um, um "Cleric" spells in the Ultmite Monk). Change Channel Bolt to divine damage (not healing at all) aka Ryu's Fireball.

Also noticed in the Bonus Feats, there are selections that are not Feats. I'm assuming that you mean they can be selected as a Feat (by this archtype only) but that should be clarified. I'm not sure about High Jump (5th), but Diamond Body, Evasion, and Purity of Body (all 10th) are not Feats, but rather Monk Class abilities.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I think you should look at ways to make the monk and the cleric parts work together. Right now they are just 2 parts of hte class standing next to eachother but they dont actually work overly well together. I would for instance, consider eliminating the domains from the cleric and add something like spell strike for unarmed attacks, the cleric has lots of interesting touch attacks, it might make for an interesting character.


Why a channel bolt and not normal channeling? It seems like doing something fancy for the sake of doing something fancy. My group pretty much just roles with the Sacred Fist as written in Complete Divine, or what ever book it is in. If you want to change things up why not instead of the bolt give them selective heal as a bonus feat. It is a sweet class but too powerful as a Archetype, as a prestige class it is fine. But that is my lowly 2 cp, so take if for what it is worth.

SGH

Shadow Lodge

I don't think it's too powerful. This archtype is extremely MAD, even more than either the Monk or the Cleric which are the top two MAD classes in the game.

I agree, maybe focus a little more on bringing the two concepts together, but I still like it, minus the Channeling Bolt (what is the point really? kind of an even weaker Channel Smite).


I don’t know if the way I wrote was confusing, but the sacred fist receives channel energy like a cleric of the same level. Channeling bolt is just another way to use it and only works on a single target. At first I wrote it as a line attack spell, but I thought it was too powerful.

About the bonus feats, I think that that are some monk abilities that the sacred fist must have access, that’s why I put them as a special kind of bonus feats, but I forgot to mention it.

I think that is a good idea to change channeling bolt to only do damage and no healing. But If I add ki pool, wouldn’t it be unbalanced? I honestly don’t know.

I like the idea to add Spellstrike, but I think that substitute a domain for this won’t be good. What do you think about add it as a bonus feat for the 5th level?

Do you think that the unarmed strike progression (using the small monk for medium character) it’s ok? Now I’m thinking about add ki pool, but I don’t know how to balance it. Also, besides spellstrike, how can I put the two concepts together as you all suggested?

I’ll wait you answer my replica before do the changes. And thanks for help.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spellstrike is a powerful ability that scales as the character levels up and gains new spell levels. An archetype should have to give up something significant for something like spellstrike. Domains are really the only thing this class could give up since you want to make use of channel for your bolt ability.


Based on your coments, and on some other things I've been thinking, I propose the following changes:

Exclude Channeling Bolt.

Exclude both domains and keep the normal spells per day, minus domains spell bonus.

Add All saves as good saves.

Spellstrike at 3rd level.

And a new ability (no named yet) that allows the sacred fist to use his channel energy points as ki points to gain access to ki ability.

I was thinking, if we just add ki pool (like the monk's), the archetype will do almost everything the monk can do and will be a full caster (9 level spell). At 20th, the sacred fist will have less channel points than a monk will have ki points. Let's say that the sacred fist learns how to control his ki energy through the power of faith. That way he will have only one numeric ability to worry about.

What do you think?


i would suggest keeping one domain. domains are what give the cleric flavor imo. maybe loss one domain both domains do seem a high cost even with spellstrike.

Shadow Lodge

I agree, keep at least 1 Domain, so that there is some variety.


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Sacred Fist (Version 3)

Here we go again:

Sacred Fists are clerics who are also martial artists, found within many temples. Their ascetic members have turned their divine magic inward, bringing their bodies and wills into harmony. Sacred Fists have forsworn the use of weapons and armor. They consider their bodies and minds gifts from their deity, and they believe that not developing those gifts to their fullest potential is a sin. They are strong in faith, will and body.

Alignment: Any Lawful.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sacred Fists are proficient with brass knuckles, cestus, club, dagger, quarterstaff, sling and their deity’s favored weapon. They are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Class Skills: The Sacred Fist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per level: 4 + Int modifier.

Diminished Spellcaster: A Sacred Fists chooses only one domain from her deity’s list of domains, and her number of non-domain spells per day for each spell level is one less than normal (for example, a 4th level Sacred Fist has three orisons, two 1st level spells, one 1st level domain spell, one 2nd level spell, and one 2nd level domain spell). If this reduces the number of spells per day for that level to 0, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to, based on her Wisdom score for that level, plus her domain spell for that level.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a Sacred Fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. This ability follows the rules presented in the monk’s class features. A Sacred Fist deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would. At 1st level, a medium size Sacred Fist deals 1d4 points of damage. At 4th level, and every five levels thereafter, her unarmed strikes increases by one step, to a maximum of 1d10 at 14th level.

Martial Discovery: Throughout her extensive training in martial arts a Sacred Fist improves her mind, body and spirit. She develops techniques that allow her to learn special abilities. Most of those are normal feats, but some of them are monk abilities that only a Sacred Fist can learn.

A Sacred Fist gains a martial discovery at 2nd level and every four levels thereafter (to a maximum of five at 18th level). These martial discoveries must be chosen from the following list: Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Endurance, Improved Grapple and Lightning Reflexes. At 6th level, a Sacred Fist may also choose from the following discoveries: High Jump, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Trip, Maneuver Training and Mobility. At 10th level, the following discoveries are added to the list: Diamond Body, Improved Critical, Purity of Body, Snatch Arrow and Spring Attack. A Sacred Fist need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Sacred Ki (Su): At 4th level, the Sacred Fist learns the secrets of the ki energy. But unlike the monk, she manifests it through the power of her faith. A Sacred Fist can spend uses of her channel energy per day to use ki abilities. As long as she has at least 1 use of channel energy unspent, she can make a ki strike. At 4th level, a Sacred Fist’s unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 9th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 14th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as evil or good weapons (depending of the Sacred Fist’s alignment) for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

By spending 1 use of channel energy, a Sacred Fist can increase her speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Also, a Sacred Fist can spend 1 use to give herself a +4 insight bonus on Concentration checks for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. This ability functions as ki pool for the purpose of qualifying for prerequisites. Also, a Sacred Fist counts 1/2 of her total Sacred Fist level as her monk level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If she has levels in monk, these levels stack.

AC Bonus (Ex): A Sacred Fist’s is highly trained at dodging blows, and she has a sixth sense that allows her to avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unencumbered and wearing light or no armor, a Sacred Fist gains a +1 bonus to her AC and CMD. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and to +3 at 17th level. Additionally, when unarmored, a Sacred Fist adds her wisdom modifier to her AC and CMD.

This bonus to AC applies even against touch attacks or when the Sacred Fists are flat-footed. She loses the bonus when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor heavier than light armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Silver Crusade

this kinda reminds me of this one Monk/Paladin Archetype I've been working on called Hand of Faith, and one thing I did for that class was make the Channel abilities rely on Wisdom instead of Charisma, but then again i'm still debating that decision.

anyway High Jump was definatly a good choice for an ability.


I like the idea to change channel energy to rely on Wis for this archetype, but I would make a feat to do it.

I'm not sure about high jump as a separate ability. Maybe I'll put it back in the 6th level bonus feat list. Don't know yet.


I like this idea. I think it would be fun to play sometime.

Tagged for further reference.


Looks like the end is coming. To post the final version I would like to ask for your opinion about the following:

1 - It's ok all saves as good saves?

2 - Are the mechanic of monk abilities as bonus feats confusing?

3 - Leave High Jump as a separate ability or put it back in the 6th level bonus feats list?

4 - Sacred Ki is Balanced?

5 - Overall, is the archetype well balanced?

Thanks for the help you all gave me. I really appreciate that.

Shadow Lodge

1.) I'm not sure here. This might be a little too strong. I don't see any reason to play a normal Cleric unless you really just have to have 2 Domains. I hate Pathfinder Domains, so this is total upside for me.

2.) It's not confussing as much as I wanted to point that out, and it could be an issue. Can anyone else take them? It might be a good idea to say that at 10th level onwards a Sacred Fist can opt to take a selected Monk ability instead of a Bonus Feat.

3.) Honestly, I'm not sure why you wanted High Jump at all. I like it as a seperate ability, for the above reason.

4.) What I meant was, that they have Ki so that they can qualify for a lot of abilities, spells, and feats in the Ultimate Monk (Combat) book that would be right up theri alley, but specifically require the Ki Class Feature. They don't need actual uses for it so much, built in.

5.) I would say it is a little strong, but that mostly because I think the base class kind of fails, and most archtypes do as well. I might say drop the Unarmed attack, armor bonus, and Channel Energy to 1/2 of a Monk's or Cleric's normal progression. I do not think that this class should be a better Monk than a Monk, and coupled with some

spells:
(Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Divine Power (and other spells), Owl's Wisdom, Bull's Strength, etc)
can start to outshine a Monk as an unarmed combatant.

I still kind of like the fireball channel energy thing, just not how it was originally presented. Might be worth a new look.


Updated the sacred fist to version 3 above.


No Replies! Is that means that the archetype is ok?


I haven't had a chance to play it yet but it looks good.

P.s. have you had a chance to see this yet?

http://therafimrpg.wikidot.com/sacred-fist

It's something to compare to. I'm GMing a session right now with a cleric who I think will want to try being a sacred fist. Don't know yet if he'll want to try your archtype or the prestige class, or maybe some kind of combination thereof but if/when he plays it I'll post his feelings about the class.


Thank you, I'll be waiting for your review.

I know the prestige class. I love the concept but I don't like the mechanics, that's why I wanted to rebuilt it.

Before working on it as an archetype I made it as a prestige class, but I wanted an option that unifies a cleric/monk concept from the beginning. Here's my prestige class version:

http://www.4shared.com/office/jgCI52eB/file.html?

Back to the archetype, I'm very uncomfortable with Sacred Ki idea. I think it's too powerful for a class that casts 9 level spells. I'm working on another version without it.


Care to explain the removal of Channeling Bolt ? I haven't found anything that would allow a cleric to channel energy via a ranged touch attack, so its inclusion would have made a nice addition.

Can you guys explain why... and if you did found a similar ability, where is it ?


I took it from here:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy89qv?Undefeatable-2-Clerics

I'll put it back in the archetype, but a little bit different.

Shadow Lodge

The Sacred Fist PC actually really, really sucked. It provided the same exact bonuses as Monks, and didn't specifically state that they stacked, so most of the class features where absolutely useless. A much better version was a divine variant of the one on Complete Arcane, (except it loses Caster Levels). :(

Shadow Lodge

darthmaru wrote:

I took it from here:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy89qv?Undefeatable-2-Clerics

I'll put it back in the archetype, but a little bit different.

I don't really see the need. Such a character probably is not going to be a a party healer, and that is just splitting the focus. It is also a downgrade of Channel Energy. The fist thing that comes to mind when I see Channel Bolt for this class is Ryu's fireball. So to me, healing not only ruins that, but spoils it so bad I'd rather have nothing than a healing ranged touch.


Pc version really sucks, I know that. I've changed Channel Bolt to be an automatic hit (like a spell) and can only be used to do damage. Here's the updated version, but I think that the description is confusing (english is not my native language). I really could use some help to improve it.

Channel Bolt: At 8th level, a sacred fist can channel energy in the form of a bolt allowing her to strike a single target at a greater distance. As a standard action, she can use her channel energy ability as targeted bolt with 100 ft. range rather than an area effect. In all other respects the bolt functions as a daily use of channel energy ability, but it can only be used to harm.

Thanks again.


A healthy, believable mix of monk and cleric. I approve! Sounds like it would be fun to play.

Shadow Lodge

"Channel Bolt: At 8th level, a sacred fist can channel energy in the form of a bolt allowing her to strike a single target at a greater distance. As a standard action, she can use her channel energy ability as a ranged touch attack with a 100 ft. max range.

In all other respects the bolt functions as a daily use of channel energy ability, but it can only be used to harm, regardless of what type of energy the Cleric normally Channels or if the target is Living or Undead."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have a few inputs

I don't think light armor should be allowed AT ALL. Stacking a souped up mithral chain shirt with the monk type bonuses can be too much.

In exchange for ditching the light armor, let them use the monks unarmed combat progression for damage. Let the sacred fist use stunning fist too as the monk.

The Sacred fist has channeling and divine spells (even reduced, but still significant) - give them no other monk goodies like great saves, flurry of blows, evasion, CMB help, etc. It is still quite a powerful class.

Balance the sacred fist carefully between the cleric and monk without making it too powerful.

Shadow Lodge

I didn't catch the Light Armor, I agree. I might even suggest that the Clerics Channel Energy drop a liitle, maybe+1d6 every 4 levels instead of 2?


Sacred Fist
(Version 4)

Sacred Fists are clerics who are also martial artists, found within many temples. Their ascetic members have turned their divine magic inward, bringing their bodies and wills into harmony. Sacred Fists have forsworn the use of weapons and armor. They consider their bodies and minds gifts from their deity, and they believe that not developing those gifts to their fullest potential is a sin. They are strong in faith, will and body.

Alignment: Any Lawful.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sacred fists are proficient with brass knuckles, cestus, club, dagger, quarterstaff, sling and their deity’s favored weapon. They are not proficient with any armor or shields.

Class Skills: The Sacred Fist’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (history) (Int), Knowledge (nobility) (Int), Knowledge (planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Stealth (Dex) and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per level: 4 + Int modifier.

Diminished Spellcaster: A Sacred Fist chooses only one domain from her deity’s list of domains, and her number of non-domain spells per day for each spell level is one less than normal (for example, a 4th level Sacred Fist has three orisons, two 1st level spells, one 1st level domain spell, one 2nd level spell, and one 2nd level domain spell). If this reduces the number of spells per day for that level to 0, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to, based on her Wisdom score for that level, plus her domain spell for that level.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a Sacred Fist gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. This ability follows the rules presented in the monk’s class features. A Sacred Fist deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would. At 1st level, a medium size Sacred Fist deals 1d4 points of damage. At 4th level, and every five levels thereafter, her unarmed strikes increases by one step, to a maximum of 1d10 at 14th level.

As long as she has at least 1 channel energy daily use unspent, she can make a ki strike. At 4th level, a Sacred Fist’s unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 9th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 14th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as evil or good weapons (depending of the Sacred Fist’s alignment) for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

AC Bonus (Ex): A Sacred Fist’s is highly trained at dodging blows, and she has a sixth sense that allows her to avoid even unanticipated attacks. When unarmored and unencumbered, the sacred fist adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC and her CMD. In addition, sacred fists gain +1 bonus to AC and CMD at 5th level. This bonus increases to +2 at 11th level and to +3 at 17th level. These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the Sacred Fists are flat-footed. She loses the bonus when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Martial Discovery: Throughout her extensive training in martial arts a Sacred Fist improves her mind, body and spirit. She develops techniques that allow her to learn special abilities. Most of those are normal feats, but some of them are monk abilities that only a Sacred Fist can learn.

A Sacred Fist gains a martial discovery at 2nd level and every four levels thereafter (to a maximum of five at 18th level). These martial discoveries must be chosen from the following list: Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Dodge, Endurance, Improved Grapple and Lightning Reflexes. At 6th level, a Sacred Fist may also choose from the following discoveries: High Jump*, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Lightning Reflexes, Improved Trip, Maneuver Training and Mobility. At 10th level, the following are added to the list: Diamond Body, Improved Critical, Purity of Body, Snatch Arrow and Spring Attack. A Sacred Fist need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

* High Jump’s additional effect can be activated by spending 1 channel energy daily use.

Channel Bolt: At 8th level, a sacred fist can channel energy in the form of a bolt allowing her to strike a single target at a greater distance. As a standard action, she can use her channel energy ability as a ranged touch attack with a 100 ft. max range.
In all other respects the bolt functions as a daily use of channel energy ability, but it can only be used to harm, regardless of what type of energy the Cleric normally Channels or if the target is Living or Undead.

-----------------------------

I excluded Sacred Ki because clerics already have spells up to 9th level and they also have channel energy to worry about. If I kept Sacred Ki as it was, the class would be way too powerful and complex. Furthermore, there are multiclass feats that already cover ki abilities (check "The Genius Guide To Feats Of Multiclassing"), thus making the presence of sacred ki pretty much useless.


Did you intend to keep Channel Energy the same as a Cleric? Or did you plan to diminish that as well?


And also while you're at it, do you want to clarify the BAB of the sacred fist? Ovbiously its not going to be as good as a monk, but I would expect a little better than the cleric? And what about saves?

Finally, do you plan to add a 20th level power? How about a powerful spell like ability, but not from the 9th level list? Like:

TOUCHED: At 20t level, a sacred fist may take a standard action to call upon their deity for protection. For the next 4d4+1 rounds, the sacred fist receives a shield that provides AC and save bonuses like Shield of Law. This ability does not radiate out in a wave like shield of law. Using this ability provokes an attack of opportunity. With the exception of not acting as a wave, and lasting for 4d4+1 rounds, this ability acts just like Shield of Law.

Any thoughts?

Shadow Lodge

Monk and Cleric have the same BaB, and as this is a Cleric Archtype, Saves are good Fort and Will, poor Refl.

I would suggest dropping Channel a little bit. Not by half, but -maybe 2d6 or 3d6 over 20 levels?


The archetype receives too many abilities, I think that diminishing channel energy is the most logic thing to do. I thought about something like this:

Channel Energy (Su): A sacred fist’s channel energy is less potent than the standard cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every three sacred fist levels beyond 1st, to a maximum of 7d6 at the 19th level. Beyond that, this ability functions exactly like the cleric ability.

I didn't want to give a 20th level power to the archetype for the following reasons:

1: It's a cleric archetype, and the cleric doesn't receive 20th level powers, I don't think the archetype should have one.

2: The archetype already has too many abilities as it is. To give something else would make it more powerful than I originally intended it to be, when compared to the original class.

I feel that maybe this will be the last modification it really needs. I had no intention to change BAB, Saves or anything that defines the cleric as a class, and Beckett pointed out the reasons why in a great way.

Thanks for all the help, I hope to count on you again if I create other projects like this in the future. Soon enough I'll post the final version, always taking into consideration all the comments you may have (even after this post).

Shadow Lodge

I agree, there are too many abilities, but I will also point out that is a failure of the base Cleric class, and not the archtype, in my opinion, and some Clerics (with the Fire, Water, Air, and Water Domains) do actually get a 20th level capstone, again, a failure on the base classes part, not the archtypes.


One last thought. Instead of reducing the frequency of advancement of channel energy, what if you reduced it to increments of 1d4? Personally I like the 1d6 at reduced frequency better, but I just thought I'd throw that out there.


I prefer channel at reduced rate because it helps to slow down a bit the frequency a sacred fist learns abilities.

With these late changes, do you think that it's ok? Game Over?


I think it's fair. It seems a little strong over-all to me, however, the class isn't the best at any one thing. It's a nice balance, and for someone who likes a versatile character they will love it. Again, I will let you know what my friend thinks once he's played it a bit, but that will be a while away.


No problem, it will be great to know the result of a playtest.

Thank you for the help and coments.

Andoran

I took a shot at this a while ago...though I made mine an inquisitor archetype.

Sacred Fist


I've edited the first post to change it to the final version of the archetype.

So, this is the end for now. Thanks to all of you who have helped me.

I also worked on another archetype, the maverick (rogue). If you could take a look and tell me what you think, I would be very grateful:

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5bt0?Maverick-from-Deadlands-d20#1

Thank you again.


Added Timeless Body and Tongue of the Sun and Moon to the Martial Discovery List and Code of Conduct to make things more balanced. I also have the intend to create some feats for the archetype soon.


Much appreciated.


One of my players wanted to try this out for a character in a campaign I'm running. You're more then welcome to follow along on our Obsidian Portal once the campaign begins running soon.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/fateful-journey


The original sacred fist (3.5 Complete Divine) has FULL BAB... I don't see any trace of that here. What about monk class features like stunning fist and flurry of blows?

Shadow Lodge

The original Sacred Fist also got a lot of Monk Features that don't actually stack with Monk Features. . . Also, in Paths of Prestige, there is a Full BaB Monk/Paladin you might be interested in. :)


Zonr_0 wrote:

One of my players wanted to try this out for a character in a campaign I'm running. You're more then welcome to follow along on our Obsidian Portal once the campaign begins running soon.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/fateful-journey

I'm honored!


Paths of Prestige is on my list, but I didn't get it yet. When I was designing the archetype I got stuck on which monk abilities I should choose. Considering that it is a class with 9 level spells and a lot of boost spells, full base attack would be overpower. Also, I don't think that stunning fist would be a necessity.


What do you think about this to replace Channel Bolt?

Ki Pool (Su): At 8th level, a sacred fist gains a pool of ki points, supernatural energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in the sacred fist’s ki pool is equal to 1 / 3 his cleric level + his Wisdom modifier. The ki pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest or meditation; these hours do not need to be consecutive. If the sacred fist possesses levels in another class that grants points to a ki pool, ki points gained from the sacred fist class stack with those gained from the other class to determine the total number of ki points in the combined pool, but only one ability score modifier is added to the total. The choice of which score to use is made when the second class ability is gained, and once made, the choice is permanent. The sacred fist can use ki points from this pool to power the abilities of every class he possesses that grants a ki pool.
As long as he has at least 1 point in his ki pool, a sacred fist can make a ki strike as a monk whose level is equal to his cleric level -3. As a swift action, he may spend 1 point of ki to gain one of the following benefits.

Ki Magic: Add +1 to the DC of the next spell he casts on his turn.

Ki Speed: Increases his speed by 20 feet for 1 round.

Ki Insight: Gain a +4 insight bonus on Spellcraft checks for 1 round.

The Shigenjo, oracle archetype from the advanced race guide, learns this ability at 7th level. I thougth it would be nice to replace channel bolt by this. About channel bolt, I was thinking about leave it as a feat or replace it by channel energy from the beginning and leave channel energy (channel bolt) with the standard progression. What do you think?

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