First Gunslinger Build Help Needed

[Cyxodus]

I want to build a Gunslinger character but I haven't got a clue. I thought about basing the character off of the pregen, Lirianne. I would appreciate any help with this build.

[deusvult]

Until you know what you want to do differently than the pregen, it's hard to give advice.

So basing your character off of Lirianne isn't a bad idea... You'll get some experience with the class and see what you like and don't like.

[Cyxodus]

I'm now thinking of a human Musket Master build for the Society. Not sure how good this is but I found this build interesting.

I was thinking of maybe doing the ability scores as:

Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10

I would love to strike from afar while staying safe and doing a fair amount of damage. If that's possible.

[Cyxodus]

I also found this guide interesting.

Which ability scores are most important to a gunslinger and how should I play a Musket Master build?

[spalding]

I'm going to be odd and recommend two levels of monk. This lets you pick up Dodge and Mobility for free as bonus feats which then allows you to get the deft shootist feat for non-provoking reloading and shooting.

Both classes have built in features that makes wisdom a sound investment and you also get unarmed strikes that you can use with your hands full. Stunning fist has a DC that's based on your total level so the few times a day you might use it there's a likelihood it could work.

The save bonuses help of course and you can choose to stay out of armor if you like and not feel like you have a huge target painted on your back.

[Cyxodus]

I had thought about adding another class but I was thinking either Alchemist or Sorcerer. Monk may be a good choice.

I was wondering about these feats.

Rapid Reload, Point Blank Shot, Rapid shot, Deadly Aim,Precise Shot, Improved Critical, Extra Grit

Maybe set up the Gunslinger like this.

lvl 1 - Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload (bonus), Rapid Shot
lvl 3 - Precise Shot
lvl 5 - Deadly Aim

But I may use these also.

Deadeye, Quick Clear, Gunslingers Initiative, Pistol Whip, Startling shot, Targeting, Bleeding, Evasive, Slinger's luck, Cheat Death

[Blackest Sheep]

Cyxodus wrote:

Maybe set up the Gunslinger like this.

lvl 1 - Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload (bonus), Rapid Shot
lvl 3 - Precise Shot
lvl 5 - Deadly Aim

If you are going for a musket, Rapid Shot is not a good choice at first level. Reloading your musket will be a standard action, even with Rapid Reload (muskets). You gain the deed that allows you to treat a musket as a one-handed firearm at 3rd level: Fast Musket. Even then, reloading a musket will still be a move action. Take either Deadly Aim or Precise Shot at 1st (I would probably chose the latter). Weapon Focus is always a choice for characters that focus (haha) on a specific type of weapon.

EDIT: Maybe invest in some thrown splash weapons or some other way of dealing damage. Firing your musket only every other round with no real bonus to damage might get frustrating.

[Cyxodus]

Blackest Sheep wrote:

Maybe invest in some thrown splash weapons or some other way of dealing damage. Firing your musket only every other round with no real bonus to damage might get frustrating.

So I should equip the Gunslinger with a crossbow? I should also get him some Alchemist's Fire or Acid?

[spalding]

I would spend the extra money on paper shot and take precise shot at level 1.

Then I would take levels 2~3 in monk with your regular 3rd level slot taking deft shootist.

Follow this with more gunslinger so that at level 5 you have fast musket and deadly aim.

It delays some of your bonus damage until level 7 but it lets you get shots off without getting beat up for it and the chance to still hit if you get a misfire and don't want to clear it (for some reason).

[Nachtfrost]

Hey Cyx!
Musketman is a good choice. I am playing a sniper myself and I am very happy with it.
Instead of
Str 12, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 10
I would go for sth like
Str 12, Dex 17 (+2), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
or maybe Str 10 and Cha 10 if you don't like dumpstats.
You have a D10 Hit Die and won't be in melee, so no real need for high Con. Dex is your friend, since at lvl 5 you get it traded in as extra damage (not to mention To Hit or AC).
You start out with Rapid Reload as feat and use paper cartridges! So even before level 3 you can shoot each round, as reloading is a mere move action. On level 3 you can bring reaload time down to a free action and use full attacks with Rapid Shot, so thats the feat to go for on lvl 3.
Point Blank Shot on Lvl 1 since it opens up all the nice feats and gives that handy +1 To Hit. And get that Precise Shot at lvl 1! It is an effective +4 boost to your To Hit.
The next to go for is Deadly Aim at level 5. (Sweet level 5! This is the time, when the other damage dealers in the party will stare at you open-mouthed. Where did THAT come from?)

So in short:
Lvl 1: Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot
Lvl 3: Rapid Shot
Stat increase Lvl 4: push Dex to 20
Lvl 5: Deadly Shot

so on lvl 5 this will make you:
+10 to Hit Touch AC (+11 within 30',) D12+5 dmg
or +8/+8 (+9/+9 within... you get the point)
or +6/+6 (+7/+7) dealing D12+5+4 dmg
ask your Wizard for Haste and Cat's Grace and that will make you a
+9/+9/+9, D12+7+4 killing machine...

Edit: Remember, playing a ranged fighter is all about positioning. Learn to get yourself into the best position to hit and stay out of melee, so AOOs won't be a problem when shooting. And make use of that good ol' 5' step!

[Cyxodus]

Thanks Abe but I think I'll go with Nacht's suggestion. I've seen the damage a gunslinger can do, absurdly high. I also want to keep it simple the first time around and then I may try your suggestion with my second gunslinger.

Any other suggestions on how too build a gunslinger?

[gnomersy]

The highest theoretical damage you can do is using the double barreled pistols and the pistolero archetype but it's also extremely risky until level 13 when you no longer have to worry about your gun randomly exploding on an attack.

Generally I'd say grab alchemic cartridges whenever possible (perhaps discuss with your DM about the necessity of the obscene costs on the ammo if he isn't shifting down the costs by upping the commonness of gun tech)

Be prepared to not use your gun for the first 2 levels or so until you get enough cash and abilities to make it worth while and not a complete waste of time to sit there plinking away once every 2 rounds.

[MacGurcules]

Remember you get a bonus feat at 4, so you could be deadly aiming a level early. And yeah, even though they're expensive, it's still worth keeping a few paper cartridges in your bag in the first couple levels so you can at least fire once per round when you need to.

Though it seems really silly that paper cartridges are so expensive. They're just a regular load of ball and black powder wrapped up in wax and paper. A sheet of paper is 4 silver and whole a pound of wax is 1 gold. Where are the extra five gold pieces going? I guess that minor difference is represented in the undiscounted price. A paper cartridge is only 1 gp more expensive than ball and powder at market price. The problem lies in that Gunsmithing only gives a 50% discount on alchemical cartridges even when there's nothing appreciable alchemical about them.

[Nachtfrost]

To solve that ammo problem once and for all get "Abundant Ammunition" (grade 1 spell) with "Permanency" cast on your pouch. That will cost 2,500 gp. Just make sure, you have all that bullets you might ever need in the pouch.
For the first few levels you might carry a longbow around since arrows aren't that expensive, you can fire more often without chance of misfire and your DEX and feats make you an expert bowman, too. Deliberately switching to your gun when fighting heavily armored opponents.

[Blackest Sheep]

Cyxodus wrote:

So I should equip the Gunslinger with a crossbow? I should also get him some Alchemist's Fire or Acid?

A crossbow might not be necessary, but alchemical paper cartridges are 12gp a shot, 6gp if your GM lets you craft some before the campaign starts - do not forget to get at least one rank in Craft (alchemy). There will probably be times when you do not want to "waste" a shot, so finding something else to do in a fight is not a bad idea. Switching to an inexpensive weapon is one way to do it. When you earn your first money and gain a level or two, this issue will most likely disappear.

I can only speak out of limited experience as a GM for a low-level gunslinger, but money was his biggest issue, and I am mostly running an official adventure, so it is not me being to stingy ... ;-)

[Cyxodus]

Blackest...Very interesting advice, I'll have to craft the cartridges before hand.

Nacht...How would I go about doing that to a pouch in Society? What ammo should I have it in before the spell is cast? The longbow sounds like a go-to weapon for now.

Mac...Sounds like inflation has hit Golarion.

[MacGurcules]

I'm not sure how Permanency works in Society, but Abundant Ammunition isn't one of the spells listed for it. In case that isn't available, your next most reliable method for getting Abundant Ammunition would probably be through a wand. Of course you'd need to invest in UMD for that and by the time you have enough ranks to make it reliable, you probably aren't going to be quite as worried about the cost of cartridges. I suppose a single level of Ranger would be enough get around the UMD check. But that's starting to get to be a lot of effort.

[Cyxodus]

So what skills are best for this class?

I was going through other player's level 1 gunslingers for ideas. What do you think about these builds?

Khair "Trace" Colbad

Troy McClure

Cedrica Einkill

Jen The Gunslinger Gladiator

[MacGurcules]

Perception, of course, is always useful. With it being a class skill and Gunslinger having Wisdom-dependent class abilities, you'll probably have the highest Perception at the table. Also, you'll want at least one point in Craft (alchemy) in order to craft/buy alchemical cartridges.

The rest of your skills are going to be a bit more along the lines of character flavor than mechanics. My gunslinger has some ranks in Knowledge (local) because he's frequently eavesdropping on rumors and is good at sniffing out where to find his next bounty. He has some Survival training for tracking down those bounties. And he also has a few ranks in Sleight of Hand and Bluff for cheating at cards when he can get away with it.

[Cyxodus]

Thanks for everyone's advice.