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Dear Paizo, please look into buying the D&D brand if possible


Paizo Publishing General Discussion

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2 people marked this as a favorite.

Dear Paizo,

Ever since the announcement of 5th edition DND. Many roleplayers speculate that it is going to be a pathfinder clone. Many believe the product will fail. I for one hope that happens. If it does,and the company has the funds and the retained earnings you should look into acquisitioning the DND brand from WOTC. I believe the Paizo staff out of any group in the roleplaying industry is the most competent to hold that brand.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The thing is, Hasbro could completely ignore the actual RPG, and just cash in licensed products, like computer games, etc. And, from what I know about Hasbro, they'd be more likely to just pack up D&D and ignore it for a decade or two than to sell it off.

Even of Paizo was the richest company in the world, they can't buy something that Hasbro doesn't want to sell.

And that's also ignoring the fact that Paizo now has it's own very successful brand name: Pathfinder. It may not be the Coca-Cola of RPGs, but it's damn sure the Pepsi. I'm not sure that Paizo really would feel the need to own the Dungeons & Dragons brand.

I'd also be staggeringly surprised if 5e was 3e/PF rebranded.


+1 to this!!

If it's feasible and the timing is right, definitely buy it. But Paizo doesn't NEED it, just a good business move.


I hope DnD 5E is the going to be the best RPG ever. 90% of what I buy from Paizo is adventures and setting material, I can adapt that to any game system.

While I run Pathfinder currently, I used to run a Fantasy Hero (Champions) based game off and on for about 20 years. Hero System is very adaptable, but there is limited source material for it, so I bought material from other game systems to use as adventures and source material.

Game systems come and go, but you can adapt a good adventure or campaign setting to any system.

Andoran

16 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Why would they waste money on another brand when their own is doing so well?


8 people marked this as a favorite.
Kthulhu wrote:
And that's also ignoring the fact that Paizo now has it's own very successful brand name: Pathfinder. It may not be the Coca-Cola of RPGs, but it's damn sure the Pepsi.

And everyone knows that Pepsi > Coke.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

IBC Root Beer is better than either.

And by IBC Root Beer, I mean Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rulebook. And also the root beer. Yum.


Kthulhu wrote:

IBC Root Beer is better than either.

And by IBC Root Beer, I mean Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rulebook. And also the root beer. Yum.

What beverage does that make F.A.T.A.L.?

Andoran

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Tentacle Grape.

Shadow Lodge

Ringtail wrote:
What beverage does that make F.A.T.A.L.?

Well, feed a cancerous AIDS patient with the plague and leprosy some ex-lax...


Hmmm...

Point goes to TOZ on that one.

Shadow Lodge

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Perhaps his is funnier, but mine is probably more accurate. :P

Grand Lodge

9 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber
Salem87 wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Ever since the announcement of 5th edition DND. Many roleplayers speculate that it is going to be a pathfinder clone. Many believe the product will fail. I for one hope that happens. If it does,and the company has the funds and the retained earnings you should look into acquisitioning the DND brand from WOTC. I believe the Paizo staff out of any group in the roleplaying industry is the most competent to hold that brand.

Posts like this can't help but add to the general impression that gamers, especially fan gamers make lousy buisnessfolk.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
And, from what I know about Hasbro, they'd be more likely to just pack up D&D and ignore it for a decade or two than to sell it off.

This, sadly. Hasbro's typical behavior when someone approaches them wanting to buy IP that has laid fallow for two decades with a reasonable offer (Several million dollars) will be to counter by a factor of ten or twenty and not budge. Dungeons and Dragons, while it isn't doing as well as they'd unreasonably like, is making them money. Most likely they won't sell it for any less than a hundred billion, and it's just not worth that much to anyone.


Why in the blue blazes would Paizo want to buy the D&D brand? To rehash old material ideas with new and upgraded rules so that some folks could feel comfortable with a map they know again? There is only so much you can do with a setting for craps sake, The sheer fact that between it's three owners D&D has had to rehash settings a few times should be a clue. Paizo has a setting that isn't even done yet, Golarian is still growing, there are still corners we haven't seen.

And that's ignoring the fact that Hasbro knows it owns a money maker, one that they will not be letting go of anytime soon, because even if the 5th edition, the 6th edition and the 7th edition all tank, let's face it, Hasbro is far disconnected from what makes a roleplaying game in the first place, they don't care. They want the license for the big picture. And as long as the general masses continue to refer to the entire RPG genre as playing D&D (because of their ignorance as to what any of us are doing), that name has a monetary value, and one they will not part with for cheap, if at all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
LazarX wrote:
Salem87 wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Ever since the announcement of 5th edition DND. Many roleplayers speculate that it is going to be a pathfinder clone. Many believe the product will fail. I for one hope that happens. If it does,and the company has the funds and the retained earnings you should look into acquisitioning the DND brand from WOTC. I believe the Paizo staff out of any group in the roleplaying industry is the most competent to hold that brand.

Posts like this can't help but add to the general impression that gamers, especially fan gamers make lousy buisnessfolk.

Huh. That's really odd. I could have sworn that Paizo was made up of fan gamers who became buisnessfolk...

They seem successful.

There's only two reasons I'd want Paizo to buy D&D:

1) to fix the Forgotten Realms and publish awesome stuff for both it and a few other popular settings.

2) to be able to use all the various iconic persona they can't use cuz WotC owns them. not that they really need them, but it would be cool.


3 people marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Personally, I'd rather they cure cancer and abolish poverty. RPGs arent that important.


will it happen? no, but it would be awesome to get beholders and what not from D&D.

what pathfinder should do is make new pathfinder book pdfs that have rewritten rules and clear concise character options. errata is nice, but like the flurry ofblows issue, if they had been concise when making this class feature we wouldnt have so many issues with it right now, that would be a better use of money imo.


Kthulhu wrote:

IBC Root Beer is better than either.

And by IBC Root Beer, I mean Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rulebook. And also the root beer. Yum.

yes, before it was made with HFCS it was AWESOME...now it's too sweet...kinda like D&D...


I am looking forward to whatever D&D Next/5th Ed is, so long as it works as modularly as they seem to be hoping. I like 3.x and PRPG, but I get tired of the seeming requirement for too many magic items and for certain feats just to survive.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

"Elect Lisa Stevens; a core rulebook in every home!"


Ringtail wrote:
What beverage does that make F.A.T.A.L.?

If you take F.A.T.A.L. as the trolling attempt it probably was, it's actually pretty amusing, albeight in a rather disturbing manner. So, powdered iced tea.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Point still goes to TOZ for wittiest response.


LazarX wrote:
Salem87 wrote:

Dear Paizo,

Ever since the announcement of 5th edition DND. Many roleplayers speculate that it is going to be a pathfinder clone. Many believe the product will fail. I for one hope that happens. If it does,and the company has the funds and the retained earnings you should look into acquisitioning the DND brand from WOTC. I believe the Paizo staff out of any group in the roleplaying industry is the most competent to hold that brand.

Posts like this can't help but add to the general impression that gamers, especially fan gamers make lousy buisnessfolk.

Dear LazarX

I would disagree. Lets say Hasbro actually was willing to sell off DND for the right price based off of the right conditions. I think acquiring DND would be good for business. If a dnd acquisition could happen they would increase their market share in the roleplaying demographic and I would imagine there would be harder barriers of entry for competitors because of that. lets not just think of beholders and illithids here as well, can you imagine paizo writers working on Ravenloft or faerun. I highly doubt they would also shelve the golarion universe. They really have something great with it. Don't forget Pathfinder is a labour of love as well. Paizo is more interested in making their niche happy,which in business you would want to do. I cant fully say Paizo is not in it for profit because that would not be true, but Paizo exists today because they really consider it a labour of love. The staff is pasionate about roleplaying.


Why would Paizo'd ever consider buying D&D brand if it was on sale for a reasonable price? So we could get mindflayers, githyanki, neogi, displacer beasts and some thri-kreens in paizo products instead of substitutes! Oh, and official pathfinder warlocks and binders.

Spoiler:
I am not considering those overglorified brain-pupies anywhere close to being acceptable substitute for decent squid-faced, brain-eating, tadpoles planted in skulls of sapient humanoids. Also, I miss githyanki (BTW, githyanki partially rhyme with kiyanki - Polish word for tadpoles... Coincidence?)

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

jonnylobster wrote:

+1 to this!!

If it's feasible and the timing is right, definitely buy it. But Paizo doesn't NEED it, just a good business move.

But, would it be?

Aside from (the considerable) name recognition, would Paizo gain out of the deal?

And, would that "name recognition" be worth what Paizo would have to pay?


Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber

Why not pick off the minnows?

I'm curious why the various advocates/idle-musers who bring up this idea as some kind of genuine business proposition* think paizo should begin with their biggest competitor? Surely it would make better business sense to pick off the smaller companies first - squeeze WoTC's market share even further and then make a move?

* presumably it's not really a scenario motivated by business considerations but rather emotional "paizo are the true heirs" kind of thoughts.

The rpg world is better off with diversity, in my opinion. 4E and PF are very different games. Golarion and the various WoTC properties are very different settings. Even if you don't like one or more of the various games/settings on offer, I think you're better off playing in a world with lots of three hundred pound gorillas rather than the old way.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Cards, Companion, Maps Subscriber
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Ringtail wrote:
What beverage does that make F.A.T.A.L.?
If you take F.A.T.A.L. as the trolling attempt it probably was, it's actually pretty amusing, albeight in a rather disturbing manner. So, powdered iced tea.

I don't think it was a trolling attempt seeing as how the author touted it as the best game ever.

FATAL Review Rebuttal


Hasbro isn't going to sell, especially since the Neverwinter Nights property is connected to it, and NWN Online in production. In addition the board games seem to be doing well. If DnDNext fails, it will most likely be shelved until the 50th anniversary, when they re-release...

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Or the author was very committed to his trolling.


Geistlinger wrote:
Kelsey MacAilbert wrote:
Ringtail wrote:
What beverage does that make F.A.T.A.L.?
If you take F.A.T.A.L. as the trolling attempt it probably was, it's actually pretty amusing, albeight in a rather disturbing manner. So, powdered iced tea.

I don't think it was a trolling attempt seeing as how the author touted it as the best game ever.

FATAL Review Rebuttal

Awww...

Blocked from my work PC. Oh well, I suppose I shouldn't pull up anything even remotely F.A.T.A.L. related anyway. While I doubt I'd lose my job over it, I could loose much worse.

Shadow Lodge

6 people marked this as a favorite.

What could Paizo do with the millions of dollars it would cost to acquire the D&D branding? How long would it take to get a return on that investment?

I don't have access to any numbers, but I suspect whatever WotC would ask for the D&D brand is far more than Paizo would be willing to spend on it.

Why buy the brand when you already have the customers?


Whether Paizo has the money or not is not the problem, rather it is the size of the company and the size of the staff. They already have issues getting the Pathfinder books out on schedule, especially during the heavy convention time of the year.

If they were to buy the D&D brand, either it or PRPG would have to die. Where is a Thunderdome when you need one? ;)


Most likely Paizo will just release a Pathfinder 2nd edition down the road sometime, but if they can acquire the rights to D&D I'm sure they could do it justice. Like some have stated Paizo has their game and line of fans, but if they can bring in more fans with D&D that would be a homerun for the company.


Drejk wrote:
Why would Paizo'd ever consider buying D&D brand if it was on sale for a reasonable price? So we could get mindflayers, githyanki, neogi, displacer beasts and some thri-kreens in paizo products instead of substitutes! Oh, and official pathfinder warlocks and binders.

If Hasbro were interested in entertaining offers, I'm sure that Paizo could license the IP of those creatures for far, far less than buying the D&D brand. It's currently not an investment Paizo wants to make, apparently, but if they decided they needed to have ithilids in Golarian, they could probably get a license of some sort.

As for warlocks, if Paizo hasn't created a warlock class, it's because they've yet to see a warlock-shaped hole in their classes so far. Honestly I've never been really impressed by warlocks anyway; they just seem like a somewhat more blaster-oriented sorceror. Make a Sage sorceror with a high INT and you can use a low-level blast all day, and at 10th level the Arcane blast feat lets you turn spells into higher-level blasts.


Not a good idea, let alone a feasable one.

It does bring a dilemma to the foreground for me: what if 5th edition will actually be really good? I like Paizo and Pathfinder, I pretty much hate 4th edition, I dislike WotC for that last reason but they're still the godfather of RPG's to me. Do I go all idealist and refuse to buy the, hypothetically, most awesome RPG ever because I dislike Hasbro and would rather spend my money at Paizo? I wouldn't want to abandon Paizo like that but neither would I want to miss out on an awesome reuniting 5th edition.

It really depends on how 5th edition turns out I guess, and maybe what Paizo comes up with the next years.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

More than D&D, I would like Paizo to be in control of Greyhawk setting. That would be awesome !


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I think this is silly.

Pathfinder is a successful product line, with a VERY high profile in it's market. It's played on multiple continents and published in numerous languages. I'd be hard pressed to name a single PnP gamer who is not at least familiar with the system and product line.

DnD is a world wide house hold name. A Brand with incredible "depth" and penetration. It's also a name that has been plagued with controversy, derided as childish and unfortunately marked by multiple eras of mediocrity. I wouldn't blow a ton of money on that name, not when my brand name is "what's hot on the street". The DnD name is on 2 of the worst films in the sword and sorcery genre, that's an accomplishment.

The IP is what's valuable. Beholders and Illithids and Gith. That IP. Has been shaky though, WotC all but abandoned Greyhawk. They so radically altered Faerun as to require a massive retcon for me to even care about it again. Eberon? Really that's cool but it's not old enough to have any viable cache. Ravenloft was elegantly beautiful at the start but let's face it, it got weird and could be reproduced without too much work.

Then there is Krynn, which has a lot of devotees. But it's as much a game world as the Wheel Of Time setting or Game of Thrones. Cool backdrop for a good story but lacking the variance most of us require for a campaign milieu.

So really, what's a couple of iconic monsters worth?
If it were my money, not nearly as much as Hasbro thinks it's worth. But I don't make toys for wealthy kids and advertise on Saturday morning cartoons.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

1. Buy the IP
2. Make everything open content
3. ...
4. Profit
5. Send "wish you were here" postcards to WotC/Hasbro execs


I would only be interested is Paizo could remake that old D & D cartoon. That is all.


Salem87 wrote:
Ever since the announcement of 5th edition DND. Many roleplayers speculate that it is going to be a pathfinder clone. Many believe the product will fail.

I don't think anyone actually believes 5e will be a Pathfinder clone. That's kind of crazy-talk territory, given the stark differences we've already seen between Pathfinder and the 5e previews. Do you believe this? If so, why?

As for the thread topic: no.


Hasbro tends not to sell IP "just in case" they need it later. They renewed the rights to Jem and the Holograms a couple years ago, after all...

And yeah, I REALLY doubt 5e will be a Pathfinder clone. I'm pretty sure they decided to do an open playtest in part since it worked so well for Paizo, but that's about all the Pathfinder they'll be putting in, I reckon.


I don't think it is a good idea really paizo can create just as awesome monsters anyway.


Why does Paizo need the D&D brand name? My friends and I already refer to it as D&D. We usually only need to clarify if we are talking to someone who actually knows about the genre.

Hasbro doesn't give a flying crap about D&D beyond the licencing money that it can make them. It didn't even figure into them buying Wizards all those years ago. If Paizo really is hell-bent on getting some of the IP, they can do an end run on a few items like the did on the displacer beast.

Fun Fact: The Githaynki are originally from a book by George RR Martin. Paizo could just licence the name from Mr. Martin and make their own githyanki. Don't know why they would want to though, Pathfinder already has its own franchise that exceeds just about any that Wizards owns.


As much as I like mind flayers and beholders, I'm not entirely sure the right to use them is worth gazillions of dollars.


Worth it just to get illithids and beholders.


And in all honestly what is stopping you as a DM introducing Mindflayers, et al to your home campaign?


You know you could even get a blue ringed octopus tumor familiar and have tentacles running down off your chin.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

1 person marked this as a favorite.

a little less snarky than my normal posts.

Why?

Did Hewlett Packard buy the IBM IP? Did GM buy Ford? did Austin Healy buy Standard?

If (when?) Paizo crushes D&D under it and hears the lamentation of Hasbro executives, they won't <b>need</b> to buy it because instead of D&D being the 'name' it would be Pathfinder.

Now: "I'm playing Pathfinder." "What's that?" "It's an RPG, think Dungeons and Dragons."

Possible future: "Want to play Dungeons and Dragons?" "What's that?" "It's like Pathfinder."

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