Gluttony |
Jade Regent was my first AP, and as of last month I've got all the volumes of that. While I do plan to start picking up Skull and Shackles when it hits the shelves of my FLGS (or maybe pick up an AP subscription), I also want to start getting some of the older APs. The question being which one?
I don't intend to be able to "catch up" and own all the APs, at least not any time soon, and since the group is going to be doing Skull and Shakles next, I think the choice this time will be based on the material provided in the volumes other than the adventure itself.
Books with good dungeons or parts of plots that can be used as stand-alones in other adventures are always good for example, and the quality and size of the bestiaries are definitely really important to me.
On that note, I'm considering Carrion Crown. My info has gaps in it, but from what I can tell it seems to provide the most new monsters in its bestiaries out of any set of 6 adventures. I know nothing of the dungeons or other material though, or even what the monsters are (aside from that some are Cthulu-mythos inspired, which is appealing). It was also the only AP that I was able to find all 6 books of at my usual store. Several of the others have gaps of 1 or 2 volumes, and some (Council of Thieves and Legacy of Fire) are outright unavailable where I usually shop.
What do others think would be a good choice?
Chef's Slaad |
plot-wise, I think Kingmaker is one of the best options. For Dungeons, I would recommend Legacy of Fire.
I'm not a really big fan of the bestiaries. I dont really get the appeal of moars monstarz, so I wouldn't know which one to recommend there. Most bestiaries are tied in to the AP theme, so if you are (e.g.) looking for a bunch of devils and LE themed outsiders, Council of Thieves is your best bet. If you want Underdark themed creatures, go with Second Darkness.
Gluttony |
I dont really get the appeal of moars monstarz
Ease of use, mostly. I like being able to pull already-made monsters from places rather than needing to make things to fill a need myself. More monsters = more options I guess.
Legacy of Fire for dungeons huh? Hmm, that makes things difficult... My normal store hasn't got any volumes of it (though I haven't checked on their ability to back-order), and my normal store is a fair bit cheaper than buying from paizo.com.
Bellona |
The monsters at the back of the APs eventually appear in the PF Bestiary books, so maybe the monsters are not the best criteria to use for choosing what AP issue to buy.
Traditionallly, issues 2 and 5 of each AP have a long article focused on a single deity (e.g., Legacy of Fire 2 and 5 focus on Sarenrae and Rovagug respectively). Serpent's Skull 6 broke that rule by having an article on Ydersius (although SS 2 + 5 also had deity articles). Skull and Shackles 1 will also an extra, "out of sequence" deity article on Besmara. These articles are the longest descriptions available for the various deities and their churches. (Gods and Magic devotes only 2 pages per deity, and the Inner See World Guide only half a page.)
A number of AP issues have longer articles on particular cities/towns or regions. In which part of Golarion do you want to run a game?
captain yesterday |
Some points on Carrion Crown. it is overall a very good ap, i'd rank it slightly behind Kingmaker and Jade Regent (I'm a huge jade regent and kingmaker fan).
the extra material is awesome, especially ecology of lycanthropes, gazetteer of caliphas, and article about the old cults.
i found the bestiaries to be a bit hit and miss, most seemed like the could've had more in them, most of the monsters were pretty good my gripe is most of the options for skeleton, zombies, etc are templates from classic horrors revisited and i did not like the ashes at dawn bestiary (its not bad just very underpowered for the 5th adventure of an ap (except for urgathoa avatar nothing is more then CR 7).
Carrion Crown also has great maps tho the scale in trial and and broken moon seem a bit off (tho still awesome). overall a great adventure path and worth the money.
Gluttony |
The monsters at the back of the APs eventually appear in the PF Bestiary books, so maybe the monsters are not the best criteria to use for choosing what AP issue to buy.
New bestiaries take a long time to come out. In general I'd prefer the instant access of getting a monster in an AP over waiting for a bestiary to release it.
Traditionallly, issues 2 and 5 of each AP have a long article focused on a single deity (e.g., Legacy of Fire 2 and 5 focus on Sarenrae and Rovagug respectively). Serpent's Skull 6 broke that rule by having an article on Ydersius (although SS 2 + 5 also had deity articles). Skull and Shackles 1 will also an extra, "out of sequence" deity article on Besmara. These articles are the longest descriptions available for the various deities and their churches. (Gods and Magic devotes only 2 pages per deity, and the Inner See World Guide only half a page.)
Yes, I saw the Shelyn and Irori ones in Jade Regent. I think Carrion Crown had Cayden Cailean (who interests me, as my first PC was a follower of him) and Urgathoa, right? Or have I got those mixed up with something else?
In which part of Golarion do you want to run a game?
I get the feeling "Space" isn't an answer that's going to get me anywhere. (And yes I have Distant Worlds already.)
The extra material is awesome, especially ecology of lycanthropes, gazetteer of caliphas, and article about the old cults.
Lycanthropes and old cults are definitely things that I want. Caliphas... I don't know what that is, but the other two balance that out.
I did not like the ashes at dawn bestiary (its not bad just very underpowered for the 5th adventure of an ap (except for urgathoa avatar nothing is more then CR 7).
I recall one of the Jade Regent books doing something similar. I think it was Tide of Honor, which had mostly low level monsters in its bestiary despite being the 5th volume of the adventure. I don't mind that much really, as the besitary monsters would mostly be used for other adventures, and could be used in places where they'd be more level-appropriate.
Deadmanwalking |
Yes, I saw the Shelyn and Irori ones in Jade Regent. I think Carrion Crown had Cayden Cailean (who interests me, as my first PC was a follower of him) and Urgathoa, right? Or have I got those mixed up with something else?
Pharasma and Urgathoa, actually. Cayden Cailean is all the way back in Second Darkness.
Gluttony |
Gluttony wrote:Yes, I saw the Shelyn and Irori ones in Jade Regent. I think Carrion Crown had Cayden Cailean (who interests me, as my first PC was a follower of him) and Urgathoa, right? Or have I got those mixed up with something else?Pharasma and Urgathoa, actually. Cayden Cailean is all the way back in Second Darkness.
Aw, darn... Well I still like Pharasma too though, so that's still okay.
captain yesterday |
I still prefer Kingmaker over Carrion Crown, it should also be noted that while some monsters from ap bestiaries make into the core bestiaries, not all do that should. if you can, get both Kingmaker and Carrion Crown. if its an either-or situation i'd get Kingmaker hands down every time. you can play Kingmaker for years and years. all the monsters are awesome, all the adventures are great, the bonus material is absolutely top notch, every article is relevant to the ap, but usable elsewhere. the monsters from the ap are included in random encounters.
Gluttony |
Hm, well I've definitely got a top two then it seems, with maybe Legacy of Fire as my current third choice.
As for whether to go with Kingmaker or Carrion Crown... I may just see how easy it is for my FLGS to back-order Kingmaker. I know they have all six volumes of Carrion Crown, but I think they're missing the first two of Kingmaker.
Kerney |
Carrion Crown, Curse of the Crimson Throne both rock, as does Rise of the Runelords.
I also would keep my eye out at game stores. I recently picked up Second Darkness for $5 dollars apiece at a game store trying to get rid of their dead merchandise. It's not the best AP, but there is enough in there that is very cool and the problems with it are easily fixable by following much of the advice on these boards.
Jenner2057 |
I actually found the first part of Second Darkness very enjoyable and would consider running parts 1-3 as a "mini" AP. (Other alternatives: forewarn characters they may need to be altruistic, include nice helpful elves and REWRITE part 5. Oh god, part 5...) :)
And my vote is for CotCT. That adventure was just loads of fun beginning to end.
DISCLAIMER: I might be biased because CotCT was one of the ones I got to play and didn't have to run. :) BUT our GM said it was a breeze to run straight as written.
Power Word Unzip |
I'll second the recommendation for Carrion Crown. I'm currently running Trial of the Beast and loving what I've read of the rest of the AP. My players seem to be enjoying it, too, and the horror genre has received a very good treatment by Paizo in these books. Chapter 1 was a great mix of investigation and dungeon crawl with emphasis on the dungeon, and included a lot of fun monsters to run from the GM's side of the screen. Chapter 2 is reversing that trend, focusing more on roleplaying and less on hitting things until they die (at least until the final section of the scenario).
I've read but not run Kingmaker; it has some excellent content and innovative rules applications (including the mass combat and kingdom rules), but it seems to be an AP that can go off the rails very quickly if PCs get really caught up in their nation building. The scope of the AP is potentially enormous, though, so you'd definitely get your money's worth. I don't think it's quite the right fit for my group, but YMMV.
If you do have an interest in Runelords, hold out for the re-release. I suspect you'll have a much easier time using the updated version than revising the 3.5 stats to work in Pathfinder. It's an excellent campaign with some very strong and enjoyably playable content, but if you want to minimize effort, the hardback edition is going to be the way to go.
Gluttony |
If you do have an interest in Runelords, hold out for the re-release. I suspect you'll have a much easier time using the updated version than revising the 3.5 stats to work in Pathfinder. It's an excellent campaign with some very strong and enjoyably playable content, but if you want to minimize effort, the hardback edition is going to be the way to go.
Didn't know there was a re-release coming. That pretty much cements Carrion Crown ahead of (what's currently available of) Kingmaker then.
Hm... So now of what's available, Carrion Crown is number 1, and it's between Legacy of Fire and CotCT for 2 & 3 I suppose.
...But I only really needed to decide on a #1 anyways.
Spaarky |
I am surprised no one mentioned Rise of the Runelords. That ap has all the classic stuff DnD was made around, Goblins, giants, dragons, wizards, etc. I would, however, suggest that you wait for the 3.5 to pathfinder 5th anniversary book to come out later this year. Definitely one of the best AP's out there.