Succubus questions


Rules Questions


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Can a succubus have sex without draining a level each round?

Can a succubus bestow her profane gift under deception?

Can a succubus remove her profane gift without hurting the recipient?


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1) Given the fact that an answer of 'no' would lead to any (humanoid) mate being killed within two minutes, which would make the existence of Alu-demons rather unlikely... I'd say 'yes'

2) Yes.

3) No idea. On the other hand, why should she? (as the same succubus can bestow any nuber of gifts to different persons)


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Midnight_Angel wrote:
3) No idea. On the other hand, why should she? (as the same succubus can bestow any nuber of gifts to different persons)

Repentance, a personal liking for an individual who wants it removed, the need to hide a minion's favored status before sending him under cover, etc.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kain Darkwind wrote:

Can a succubus have sex without draining a level each round?

Can a succubus bestow her profane gift under deception?

Can a succubus remove her profane gift without hurting the recipient?

1. If the DM says so yes, I don't see why not.

2. Perhaps, but it's usually the succubus that's doing the deceiving. You are talking about one of the smarter demons in the demonic food chain after all.

3. Possibly, but why in her spiteful mind would she? She only bestows the profane gift to further destruction either to the giftee or whatever is held most dear.


I'm guessing he is asking because he wants to planer bind a succubus to give him profane gift without using suggestions and is worried that when the duration runs out he will become unconscious.


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Midnight_Angel wrote:
1) Given the fact that an answer of 'no' would lead to any (humanoid) mate being killed within two minutes, which would make the existence of Alu-demons rather unlikely... I'd say 'yes'

I'd say it is "premature" to discount the possibility of conception with a very limited time window.


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I'm the DM, boys and girls. I'm simply curious how these things are supposed to be working before I interfere via any rule 0-ing of things.

I did mean the succubus deceiving someone else into taking her gift. Perhaps not even knowing that it was demonic, from her, or anything else.


I don't know of any established official in pathfinder rules to succubi dating. So feel free to go with whatever you'd like. Logically imo the answer to all of the above is yes.

Just because a character is under the effect of a supernatural ability does not necessarily mean the character in question knows the particulars of it. Just keep in mind that the recipient of the succubi's gift must be willing and humanoid and that the boost is his/her choice of attribute. That can lead to an odd spot if you don't carefully explain it to the presumed pc.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kain Darkwind wrote:

I'm the DM, boys and girls. I'm simply curious how these things are supposed to be working before I interfere via any rule 0-ing of things.

I did mean the succubus deceiving someone else into taking her gift. Perhaps not even knowing that it was demonic, from her, or anything else.

I could definitely see the succubus bestowing her profane gift through deception. In fact given her very nature, I can hardly see it comeing any other way.


I would err on the side of the most harm done to the most people. That goes along with the general theme of the succubus, and demons in general.

In that vein, no to avoiding level drain, safety of mortals is anathema to demons
Yes to deception, that seems the point of the succubus.
No to removing without injury. If you need an unmarked minion, you get a new one.


1) Typically abilities are a decision on the "users" end. Given that, even with abilities that are "always on" the creature can take steps to drop them (like SR). So yes, sex without level drain if the succubus wants to should be possible. If the succubus decides it doesn't care at some point during the act, the drain would kick in.

2) Profane gift is a bit more tricky by RAW I think, because in the recent FAQs/Errata it was stated that even if someone thought they were drinking a potion of cure light wounds and it turned out to be a poison, they would still get a save. And the general rules typically error on the side of "if it damages or harms some way, you get a save." So even if the ability is a bonus in the short term, it still has the ability to harm the target in the end. As a plot hook for an npc not really an issue, for a character, I don't think I'd allow deception to work. The character would have to actually be aware of what the ability did and "be willing" before it could gain the bonus.

3) If the succubus wanted to remove it without hurting the target, it would have to get access to a dispel evil/chaos spell.


Everybody who answered 2 as yes got it wrong. The right answer is no (it says they have to be willing right in the ability, guys!

Also, James Jacobs said the same thing in a thread here:

Quote:
A profane gift doesn't register to detect magic, but will to detect chaos and detect evil. And since the target of a profane gift has to be willing, the character with the gift is absolutely aware that he's under the effect. He gets to choose which ability score increases, after all.

http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz23ol?Can-profane-gift#6


I'd still say you could convince someone to receive the "profane gift" by masquerading it as a "divine gift". Those who can detect evil however will know immediately after it's bestowed that it was no such thing.

Perhaps a gift combination with a *insert item type* of nondetection/undetectable alignment? Maybe a token like a piece of jewellery or even a holy symbol, for extra deviousness?

Example scenario as Succubus disguised as a priestess of X faith attempting to corrupt a cleric. Makes disguise and bluff checks, after some pleasant relations, convinces said cleric she's concerned for his welfare, and proffers her own holy symbol as a token of affection, then "blesses" him with a gift from their mutual divine patron? (bluff check)

He's still receiving the gift to his attributes and it still functions the same, she's just lying to him about where it comes from.


Well you could house rule it that way but James Jacobs says it works so that the target knows. It is an ability to tempt someone to fall with evil by offering them power, not an ability to sneakily help good guys without them knowing.

For the other questions, the first is no and the third is no, unless the succubus can get a scroll of dispel evil or chaos. The rules say that if the succubus does willingly remove its gift, the Cha drain happens with no save, and the Universal Monster Rules for energy drains says that it happens automatically whenever the attack hits (the grapple). It does not say that the monster can choose to energy drain, it says it happens automatically. It is a immortal spirit of destruction existing to torment corrupt and destroy them after all.


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This goes Waaaaaay back to the very first edition of D&D, Gary Gygax (creator of Dungeons & Dragons) himself wrote Rule #1: The rules are optional, if you don't like a rule, get rid of it or change it, but once you do this be careful about going back to it later. I can't number the amount of times a game got bogged down by arguements over rules. If you want the succubus to be able to have sex without risking killing her partner, the simple answer is "do it". However changing around things like the profane gift ability need to be done carefully, the succubus removing the gift herself is set up kind of like a retribution. Someone else removing it, like a cleric, has no major side effects. When in doubt follow your best judgement, and above all talk with your players, they might have ideas you haven't thought of.
Tera


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Kain Darkwind wrote:

Can a succubus have sex without draining a level each round?

Can a succubus bestow her profane gift under deception?

Can a succubus remove her profane gift without hurting the recipient?

1) she must maintain the grapple with the shapeshifted druid.

2) ummm, what's profane about it? Does it make you say bad words? Legalese tricks work on devils...

3) but do you want it to hurt?


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IIRC, James Jacobs stated somewhere that a succubus can't avoid draining levels if she has sex with someone in its normal shape.

So she must change shape for safe sex.


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Noir le Lotus wrote:
So she must change shape for safe sex.

Fortunately, Alter Self is an at-will ability.

Always practice safe sex, make sure you have a Geas in place beforehand.


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hey it's AR4716!

Dark Archive

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One way to grapple a succubus is via telekinesis. Cough here we go again.


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Kain Darkwind wrote:

I'm the DM, boys and girls. I'm simply curious how these things are supposed to be working before I interfere via any rule 0-ing of things.

I did mean the succubus deceiving someone else into taking her gift. Perhaps not even knowing that it was demonic, from her, or anything else.

LazarX wrote:
I could definitely see the succubus bestowing her profane gift through deception. In fact given her very nature, I can hardly see it comeing any other way.
dkonen wrote:

I'd still say you could convince someone to receive the "profane gift" by masquerading it as a "divine gift". Those who can detect evil however will know immediately after it's bestowed that it was no such thing.

Perhaps a gift combination with a *insert item type* of nondetection/undetectable alignment? Maybe a token like a piece of jewellery or even a holy symbol, for extra deviousness?

Example scenario as Succubus disguised as a priestess of X faith attempting to corrupt a cleric. Makes disguise and bluff checks, after some pleasant relations, convinces said cleric she's concerned for his welfare, and proffers her own holy symbol as a token of affection, then "blesses" him with a gift from their mutual divine patron? (bluff check)

He's still receiving the gift to his attributes and it still functions the same, she's just lying to him about where it comes from.

Point in fact, in an AP (in a secluded part of the world) a succubus does exactly that. She tells some dancers that she has a give that can help them commune with their spirits better, enhances their charisma (their casting stat), and then informs them that if they want to keep doing so, they have to serve her or else she severs them from their spirits forever. She then dominates their minds and reinforces this with suggestions.

The PCs eventually come across these people who attempt to "help" (seduce) them and pretend that nothing is wrong. So... in-print we have it working this way in Golarion.

MeriDoc- wrote:
One way to grapple a succubus is via telekinesis. Cough here we go again.

C'mon, dude. C'mon. ;P


Kain Darkwind wrote:

Can a succubus have sex without draining a level each round?

Can a succubus bestow her profane gift under deception?

Can a succubus remove her profane gift without hurting the recipient?

1. No.. that's why Nale in "Order of the Stick", has to keep a healthy supply of negative plane protection potions.

2. Absolutely, succubi are masters of deception. They're also masters of seduction which generally makes the deception unnecessary.

3. By the rules, there is no such ability to do so. Nor is there any inclination. A succubus doesn't break up gently, nor with grace, she treats her discarded toys like trash... presuming she hasn't drained them dry first.

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