Damage dice for a Shillelagh under effect of Enlarge Person


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

What would be the damage dice used in this situation:

Medium character holding a medium quarterstaff casts Shillelagh. By RAW the damage for that weapon is now 2d6+1. What happens when this character is transformed into a Large creature using the Enlarge Person spell?

Shillelagh wrote:
Your own non-magical club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. A quarterstaff gains this enhancement for both ends of the weapon. It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger (a Small club or quarterstaff so transmuted deals 1d8 points of damage, a Medium 2d6, and a Large 3d6), +1 for its enhancement bonus. These effects only occur when the weapon is wielded by you. If you do not wield it, the weapon behaves as if unaffected by this spell.

1)Would it simply be 3d6+1 for damage?

2)Would the damage be different if they cast Shillelagh after they are Enlarged?


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber
sveden wrote:

What would be the damage dice used in this situation:

Medium character holding a medium quarterstaff casts Shillelagh. By RAW the damage for that weapon is now 2d6+1. What happens when this character is transformed into a Large creature using the Enlarge Person spell?

Shillelagh wrote:
Your own non-magical club or quarterstaff becomes a weapon with a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. A quarterstaff gains this enhancement for both ends of the weapon. It deals damage as if it were two size categories larger (a Small club or quarterstaff so transmuted deals 1d8 points of damage, a Medium 2d6, and a Large 3d6), +1 for its enhancement bonus. These effects only occur when the weapon is wielded by you. If you do not wield it, the weapon behaves as if unaffected by this spell.

1)Would it simply be 3d6+1 for damage?

2)Would the damage be different if they cast Shillelagh after they are Enlarged?

I hope I'm doing this right...

1) I believe so, yes.

2) No. Enlarging yourself would take the normal quarterstaff damage to 1d8. Then moving it up two from Shillelagh would be 1d8 -> 2d6 -> 3d6. and the enhancement bonus would make that 3d6 + 1.

(However, don't forget to add in the strength bonus for actually being a larger size.)


1) 3d6+1, yes.

2) No damage difference. If you cast shillelagh after being enlarged, the quarterstaff is briefly a 1d8 weapon (due to being a Large weapon wielded by a Large person) before shillelagh bumps it to 3d6+1.

Sczarni

I am rezing this thread since I got around similar question.

How much damage would person do with greatclub( 1d10 ) under the effects of Shillelagh and Enlarge person.

I just fail to understand and use the table for size modifiers but my wild guess would be:
1d10 (+2 to maximum higher damage)-> 1d12
1d12 (+4 to maximum higher damage)-> 3d6
3d6 (+6 to maximum higher damage)-> 3d8

So 3d8+1 ?


They wouldn't. A greatclub isn't a valid target for the spell, only clubs and q-staves.

-S

Sczarni

*scratches head*

It says "one touched non-magical oak club or quarterstaff" , great club is type of club? I guess I can go with normal club too, great club just seemed more flavor wise.

I am still interested if I got the math good? Does weapon size work that way? For future notes.

Dark Archive

On the other hand, a large-sized club is 1d8, so enlarge person would bring it up to 2d6, and shillelagh would bring it up to 4d6; albeit at -2 to hit.

Druid/titan mauler anyone?

Liberty's Edge

You think that this doesn't apply?

PRD wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.


Diego Rossi wrote:

You think that this doesn't apply?

PRD wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

The spell actually doesn't say it increases the size of the club... it says you treat its damage dice AS IF the club were increased in size. This could make all the difference.


I think it doesnt apply. Shillelagh doesnt change size


Yep... just to note, if it changed the size of the weapon, without increasing your size as well, you may suddenly lose proficiency with it. That just doesn't make any sense for the intent of the spell.

Well, I guess you could if it was a greatclub anyway, a 2-hander increased to the next size category would be outside your size category for what weapon you can wield.

Dark Archive

Diego Rossi wrote:

You think that this doesn't apply?

PRD wrote:
Multiple magical effects that increase size do not stack.

I wasn't talking about a magically enlarged club, I was talking about a club that's sized for a large wielder.

Unless you were talking about the interaction between enlarge person and shillelagh; as mentioned by others, shillelagh does not actually increase the size of the club; it's more like lead blades.

Unfortunately, I do not believe lead blades would stack with shillelagh; it's sad because I'm picturing a 12d6 vital strike.


The greatclub is a club.


That's a matter of interpretation.

I really wish they'd be more specific with their conventions.

It was explained in another thread on the subject that "club" and "sword" and the like aren't game terms in the same way that "slashing" and "piercing" are (or w/e else)

In effect, I believe the intent is that it works only on the 2 listed weapons in the spell description. But, because they didn't disambiguate by capitalizing each weapon name, they can't say a Greatclub is a club, but not a Club.


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Ok, so look at it this way

You have a 2 foot long 2 inch chunk of oak. You call it a club. You can cast shillelagh on it.

You have a 3 foot long 3 inch thick chunk of oak. You call it a large club. You can cast shillelagh on it

You have a three foot long 3 inch chunk of oak. You call it a greatclub. Now you cant cast shillelagh on it.


One imposes a penalty for being missized and doesn't quite do the damage of the other.

Also a greatclub is a 2H martial weapon. (crafted to be such, it's not quite as crude as the base club)

It doesn't break the game to allow it. And it works from a simulationist POV. But I don't think it's RAW or RAI.


I think greatclubs are always more worked wood, while clubs and staves can be more or less a natural stick.


Oh, and club is a defined game term. Sword is not.

Sczarni

Mergy wrote:

On the other hand, a large-sized club is 1d8, so enlarge person would bring it up to 2d6, and shillelagh would bring it up to 4d6; albeit at -2 to hit.

Druid/titan mauler anyone?

I was actually thinking on that, but don't tell anyone!

In any case I am still interested if I got math right. Would 1d10 weapon do 3d8 damage with shillelagh and enlarge?


Iirc:
1d10>2d8>3d8>4d8>6d8
1d8>2d6 etc


Archaeik wrote:

One imposes a penalty for being missized and doesn't quite do the damage of the other.

Also a greatclub is a 2H martial weapon. (crafted to be such, it's not quite as crude as the base club)

So the shillelagh spell.. what.. doesn't like the handle?


stringburka wrote:
Oh, and club is a defined game term. Sword is not.

I couldn't find it listed in the PRD at all...


Mergy wrote:

On the other hand, a large-sized club is 1d8, so enlarge person would bring it up to 2d6, and shillelagh would bring it up to 4d6; albeit at -2 to hit.

Druid/titan mauler anyone?

My roommate was doing that in Serpent Skull until he died...

Dark Archive

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BigNorseWolf wrote:

Ok, so look at it this way

You have a 2 foot long 2 inch chunk of oak. You call it a club. You can cast shillelagh on it.

You have a 3 foot long 3 inch thick chunk of oak. You call it a large club. You can cast shillelagh on it

You have a three foot long 3 inch chunk of oak. You call it a greatclub. Now you cant cast shillelagh on it.

You can call it stupid if you like, but that's the way the rules work.

Quarterstaff = yes

Club = yes

Greatclub = nay

Scarab Sages

Mergy wrote:

On the other hand, a large-sized club is 1d8, so enlarge person would bring it up to 2d6, and shillelagh would bring it up to 4d6; albeit at -2 to hit.

Druid/titan mauler anyone?

I'm curious if the enhancement bonus the spell Shillelagh gives your weapon would bring the minus to hit for this down to -1? Thoughts?

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