For me, as a woman...You're a woman? That's hot.Damn right I'm hot, and I'm more woman than you'll ever have.
:)
By that I assume you mean because you're so large? :P
Women are sexual. So are men. What's the problem? That not enough men are "sexualized"? That the women that are sexualized are the typical "women-in-mass-media" version of "sexy"? I can see that, but I can't see a problem with women being depicted as sexual, any more than I have a problem with woman being depicted as humans (or elves or... whatever).
By that I assume you mean because you're so large? :PFor me, as a woman...You're a woman? That's hot.Damn right I'm hot, and I'm more woman than you'll ever have.
:)
If it means you're so very tiny....
I really am teasing, I'm terrible at trash talk. I always end up feeling bad...
By that I assume you mean because you're so large? :PFor me, as a woman...You're a woman? That's hot.Damn right I'm hot, and I'm more woman than you'll ever have.
:)
If it means you're so very tiny....
** spoiler omitted **
Adult content warning.
Don't sweat it DQ I have a good sense of humor, and it seems as though you do too. :)
I like fantasy art. I like chain mail bikinis and I am a man. And really, I'm okay with it. heh
I am a man.
You're a man? That's hot.
@TriOmegaZero: No, definitely not my pocketbook.
|
...and what they do get to wear is often revealing in a way most girls won't dress most of the time.
Okay, I'm semi-officially and cynically amused.
Lord Snow--
You're complaining about the hobby's objectification of women, and yet you keep slipping, in post after post, to referring to presumably adult women as girls-- yet I notice you never refer to men as "boys" in your posts, or really as anything other than 'men' (except when using the terms 'male' and 'female' in some posts).
Ever stop to think that your use of language is as much or more of a double-standard than the artwork that you're so concerned about is?
(although in general, I agree with many of the posters who have stated this issue is a little overdone here on these boards, and at least in Paizo's case, not as much of a problem as you think it is)
BTW-- Death Quaker: excellent posts. I very much appreciate the points you bring up, as always when I see them on these boards.
I very much appreciate the points you bring up...
Yes, I'll just bet you do. :P
Sorry, everybody was thinking it, I just had to say it.
Kretzer - again with the "we have bigger problems" argument. After typing your post, did you leave your computer to continue your war against hunger in Africa? No? than your argument is invalid. The question is very simple - do you or do you not think that things should be as they are right now?
Um...no that is not what I was saying at all. I think you got me confused with another post...
Anyway my point is that every bussiness uses sex to sell. If you want to 'change' this you should go to advertising agencies and get them to change. Than you would actualy have a effect.
Personaly I don't think it has too change. But it is a free country...go ahead and try, but make sure you start with the right target if you want to effect real change.
What throws me for a loop is the near-universal implicit assumption that nudity = sex, an assumption that runs pretty strongly though this thread. I really can't get my head around that sometimes. I mean, generally, when I'm in the shower, I'm nude. Sadly, on a day-to-day basis I'm not there for sex -- I'm there to get cleaned up so I can go to work. How these two can be equated is completely beyond me. I understand, intellectually, that for 99% of people, nudity automatically implies sex, but I still often wonder why that is.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
What throws me for a loop is the near-universal implicit assumption that nudity = sex, an assumption that runs pretty strongly though this thread. I really can't get my head around that sometimes. I mean, generally, when I'm in the shower, I'm nude. Sadly, on a day-to-day basis I'm not there for sex -- I'm there to get cleaned up so I can go to work. How these two can be equated is completely beyond me. I understand, intellectually, that for 99% of people, nudity automatically implies sex, but I still often wonder why that is.
Genesis.
|
Kretzer - again with the "we have bigger problems" argument. After typing your post, did you leave your computer to continue your war against hunger in Africa? No? than your argument is invalid. The question is very simple - do you or do you not think that things should be as they are right now?Um...no that is not what I was saying at all. I think you got me confused with another post...
Anyway my point is that every bussiness uses sex to sell. If you want to 'change' this you should go to advertising agencies and get them to change. Than you would actualy have a effect.
Personaly I don't think it has too change. But it is a free country...go ahead and try, but make sure you start with the right target if you want to effect real change.
I will once again stress this - I am not trying to change anything at all, just to understand what people in the community are feeling about what's going on.
I think that this link (to an article in cracked.com) represents how the way women are visualized could have an impact. Mind though that Paizo are not nearly as bad as what you'll see over there - read it, and don't get defensive about it, it's not meant to personaly attack you:
http://www.cracked.com/blog/the-5-most-ridiculously-sexist-superhero-costum es/
I feel obligated to say that some of the article I do not agree with. For example, saying that the invisible girl from the fantastic 4 is a sexist concept because her powers are "to literarily disappear". That's just silly. However the big picture is what matters.
What throws me for a loop is the near-universal implicit assumption that nudity = sex, an assumption that runs pretty strongly though this thread. I really can't get my head around that sometimes. I mean, generally, when I'm in the shower, I'm nude. Sadly, on a day-to-day basis I'm not there for sex -- I'm there to get cleaned up so I can go to work. How these two can be equated is completely beyond me. I understand, intellectually, that for 99% of people, nudity automatically implies sex, but I still often wonder why that is.Genesis.
Darn that Dr. Carol Marcus! Bones was right, it's an irresponsible project. ;-)
Kretzer - again with the "we have bigger problems" argument.Um...no that is not what I was saying at all. I think you got me confused with another post...
Anyway my point is that every bussiness uses sex to sell. If you want to 'change' this you should go to advertising agencies and get them to change. Than you would actualy have a effect.
Personaly I don't think it has too change. But it is a free country...go ahead and try, but make sure you start with the right target if you want to effect real change.
I believe Snow Lord intended to respond to this post. (That silencing tactic is a pet peeve of mine. Not to mention, just LOOK at all the other things people get worked up about around here! :P)
Personally, I reckon small changes are real too—just not the end of the road. And hopefully we listen better than big advertising agencies, and are more responsive! :)
|
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
One thing that drives me nuts: the supposed equivalence of beefcake and cheesecake.
Beefcake is first and foremost a male power fantasy.
Cheesecake is first and foremost a male sexual fantasy.
They are both unrealistic and have their place in fantasy art, but they are not equivalent.
All this cake talking got me all hungry!
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Genesis.
Ah, of course. Thanks! I personally try not to base my assumptions on 1,900-year-old allegories of dubious translation, but to each his own.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Genesis.Ah, of course. Thanks! I personally try not to base my assumptions on 1,900-year-old allegories of dubious translation, but to each his own.
Snark approved.
But if you want to pin down the cultural assumption that nude == sexual == wrong, look no further. The age and dubious translation are all a part of how we ended up with what we've got today.
I scarcely need explain this to you, but I want to make myself clear anyway.
nude == sexual == wrong
Wait, being nude during sex is wrong? Dang, all these years I've been doing it wrong then. Crap.
|
As a person who has created many, many characters for Pathfinder and other gaming venues. I can tell you that I try not to play the same thing every time. I play both male characters, and female characters. And I, myself, being slightly overweight and probably a little unhealthy as a result of that, prefer to have my characters being of average weight and normal health.
My female characters are usually wizards and sorceresses. My male characters are usually wizards, sorcerers, and more recently clerics or paladins. I generally perceive characters with high Charisma to be moderately attractive, so having art images of people of average weight, normal health, and attractive features is not at all a bad thing for me. I am inspired by images of beautiful women, and of handsome men. Not necessarily muscular men, or buxom beauties, but men and women who are comfortable with their bodies, with who they are, and with their own powers and abilities. Sometimes, for roleplaying purposes, I like to play a character that is uncomfortable with his or her powers and abilities.
Images of empowered women, and men, who view their sexuality as part of that empowerment are in a word, Super!
Sexuality is not the only thing that empowers a person, however, so art images of individuals empowered through other means are equally appealing. I am currently playing a female fighter/rogue who is very cold and distant. She's empowered by this coldness and by the sheer logic she uses to cut up the world. She's also distant from men in general (she has the Widowed trait). So, this could be a person actually empowered by asexuality. (Probably not a word). It makes sense for her though, and over time, the character is warming up to the other members of the party.
As for male characters, there is a certain level of sexuality (or asexuality) that can be empowering. Wizards, for example, refrain from any distractions that might prevent their studies. Clerics might be the same for devotions. But at the same time, I have played a male centaur cleric of Sune who is greatly empowered by sensuality. I also have one or two Arcana Evolved male characters empowered by their sexuality or sensuality (one is a Priest of Idonis). Even the alien races can be empowered by various visual aspects, but being in good health is one of them, and for myself (personally), good health means losing weight, having an average weight and relatively good looks.
Senior Software Developer
|
| 8 people marked this as a favorite. |
You know what, several of us here are deeply offended at the title of this thread. If you want to engage in discussion about how Paizo represents women in our products, please take a minute to read some of the previous threads about this topic, and start a new thread with a less inflammatory title. (And if your excuse is "it's the best that came to my mind", think harder.)