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You shall not pass!


Gamer Talk


I was just watching the clip from LOTR.
Whats was going on here in game terms?
The Balrogs flame blade got sundered on a globe centered on Gandalf. The Balrog was not able to go forward.
Thoughts?


.

Gandalf casts Wall of Force centered on the bridge as he proclaims,
"You Shall Not Pass."

Balrog's flame sword smashes through this Wall of Force (dispelling it),
and is stopped by Gandalf's spherical (modified) Shield Spell. But the
energy of disrupting the Wall of Force is enough to put a vertical
stress fracture through the center of the bridge.

Balrog steps out onto the bridge to close the distance, and get into
close enough range so he can dominate the wizard's mind with a psionic
attack. (You need to be physically close for this.) As he does so, his
weight is enough to shear off his side of the bridge.

At this exact moment (bad timing), Balrog projects a psionic attack at Gandalf
(we don't get to see this because it is psionic). The anguish caused by
this psionic duel is enough to cause Balrog to fail is DEX check, and
begin falling into the chasm. The effect on Gandalf is he stands there
momentarily befuddled, and turns around Slowed.

Balrog seizes the opportunity to employ his fire-deamon whip
(attributes and powers unspecified) to snag Gandalf's heel (personally,
I think this roll was a nat 20) and pull the Wizard over the edge.

Wizards have never been known for their upper-body strength, and
Galdalf, unable to do a single pull up, falls from the bridge's broken
edge into a zero-g fun-dance.

.


I prefer None Shall Pass!!!.


Did it get busted? I'd have to go back and look again. I just assumed it got knocked back/parried.

I believe in the book that wasn't the case, and in next movie when Gandalf the White shows up and relates the tale they were still dueling/fighting after the fall.

Movie effects do not always have an replicable Pathfinder effect. In this case keep in mind the source material. Gandalf is actually a minor angle/sprite and is sporting the Elven Ring of Fire, Narya, and artifact level item.


The balrog swings with its Flame Blade, which Gandalf counters by casting Globe of Invulnerability, which prevents the spell from having any effect on Gandalf.

Unfortunately, what Gandalf didn't know was that the balrog had class levels, as a Magus, and had bought the Dispelling Strike arcana. The flame blade was a spell like ability, and the balrog used it as a diversion, to trick Gandalf into wasting one of his spell slots (and actions). Boom! the dispel magic goes off, shattering the globe.

Gandalf realizes this is not just a simple balrog, and gets nervous. It even makes his voice shake. The balrog then draws it's main weapon, a flaming whip. Gandalf is desperate... he's not entirely positive how his spell was destroyed (remember, he needs books to make even relatively low DC checks to identify the one ring), but he doubts he can risk it again.

So he casts Shatter on the bridge, hoping to make it so the balrog can't chase the group.


Cool ideas all around! I'm hungry for more!

Silver Crusade

Dorje Sylas wrote:


Movie effects do not always have an replicable Pathfinder effect. In this case keep in mind the source material. Gandalf is actually a minor angle/sprite and is sporting the Elven Ring of Fire, Narya, and artifact level item.

More or less what you said here...

except-- that both Gandalf and the Balrog were Maiar-- same class of beings as Sauron himself, and essentially-- sort of demigods or lesser gods, or among the most powerful non-deity outsiders that exist... Though I would take the book version over either movie version-- I'd say (even, or especially, with the book) most of what was really going on in the part of the fight that the rest of the Fellowship saw, wasn't visible to their eyes anyway.

Stories do not follow game rules (unless they're based on games or the game was based on the story and had explanations for the story's events written into it).


DreamAtelier wrote:

(remember, he needs books to make even relatively low DC checks to identify the one ring)

I wouldn't peg The One Ring as a low DC check. It's a major artifact that has been worn by (up to that point) exactly four people, and seen up close by not many more. It's a plain gold band with no identifying markings that has the ability to control it's own powers. The only power it manifested was invisibility, which appeared to be nothing so uncommon to make Gandalf suspect it until later. And I think the books were also more to find a way to prove it than to identify it.


I assumed the Balrog was a Balor. Has wings, firey body, sword, whip that entangles, and had pegged Gandalf for casting an epic-level shatter spell on the bridge, and a globe of invulnerability on himself.

Edit: globe of invulnability affects spells, not weapons. Maybe a super stone-skin? Doesn't explain the globe shape? Custom spell? Sphere of force?


Finn Kveldulfr wrote:


More or less what you said here...

The Balrog perhaps but Gandalf and the other Wizards were not nearly at the same level as Sauron. Sauron was Morgoths right hand man for a reason and was about as powerful as a Maiar could get without being a Valar.

Sauron > Balrog ~= Saruman/Gandalf the White > Gandalf the Grey > Radagast the Brown.

But ya, both participants in that fight are a basically what count as Outsiders (even Native). I really enjoyed Ian McKellen's exhausted look of f***********k when the Balrog gets its full reveal. Cause character wise he would have know he was up against something totally out of his league.


You shall not pass!

Silver Crusade

Dorje Sylas wrote:


The Balrog perhaps but Gandalf and the other Wizards were not nearly at the same level as Sauron. Sauron was Morgoths right hand man for a reason and was about as powerful as a Maiar could get without being a Valar.

Sauron > Balrog ~= Saruman/Gandalf the White > Gandalf the Grey > Radagast the Brown.

But ya, both participants in that fight are a basically what count as Outsiders (even Native). I really enjoyed Ian McKellen's exhausted look of f***********k when the Balrog gets its full reveal. Cause character wise he would have know he was up against something totally out of his league.

Re: Sauron-- I agree-- he was definitely the most powerful of the Maiar (at least of the ones we ever get to see in action in any of the books). I don't think the Balrog was even close to being Sauron's equal, although it was still very powerful and very dangerous, and none of the wizards were anywhere near as powerful as Sauron either.

Regarding Gandalf-- I think Gandalf was a little closer to the Balrog in full capability than you give him credit for; we just didn't get to see it most of the time in the books (and movies) because he was "under orders" to serve as advisor to the mortals, not take over for them. After all-- Gandalf did destroy the Balrog, though he more or less "died" in the process and had to be brought back by the higher powers afterward.

I think, btw, that scene in the movie where Gandalf realizes what he's been fighting, is also mirrored (although not as distinctly described) in the book. It's also interesting to note that of all the company in the book (including Gandalf), Legolas is the first one to call out the threat by name. It's all good stuff.

Nazard--

The D&D 'Type VI' Demon, aka 'Balor' etc-- was, I think, deliberately created by Gygax, Arneson, et al., in imitation of the Balrog from Lord of the Rings.... so the resemblance is not accidental. The name 'Balor' however is from Celtic Mythology and actually refers to something entirely different from its D&D use (though Balor of the Evil Eye was a very powerful villain in the tales of the Tuatha de Danaan).


could it have all been a dream?

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