How Do Witches Get Outsider Minions?

[OldManAlexi]

Witches don't get Planar Ally, Planar Binding, or Gate. Aren't evil witches supposed to conjure demons to send after meddling heroes? Anyone else think this is an odd choice? For that matter, can anyone explain why they think this is logical?

Oh, and yes, I did notice you can get them from one archetype and a few patrons have one of them. It just seems to me that they should be easier to get.

[wraithstrike]

Witches don't deal with outsiders so much even in media, that I have seen. They are nature and cursed based with some necromancy instead.

Casters following the themes of wizards, warlocks, and so on are normally the ones that traffic with demons.

[Puma D. Murmelman]

Spirit patron witches get Planar Ally at 16th level and Occult patron grants gate at 18th level.

[wraithstrike]

He mentioned the patrons. He wants to know why they are not something every witch can get.

[Puma D. Murmelman]

My fault for obviously not reading posts to the end.
Apart from that, I agree that conjuring demons is not something I have in mind when I think of pathfinder witches.

[gigglestick]

Puma D. Murmelman wrote:

My fault for obviously not reading posts to the end.

Apart from that, I agree that conjuring demons is not something I have in mind when I think of pathfinder witches.

Same here. I see most witches as fairly benign, often nature oriented.

Sorcerors are the demon summoners. Them and those pesky Summoners.

[OldManAlexi]

Eh, fair enough. I'm just bitter because it screwed up a villain concept I had. Not that I would have actually used it before I got distracted and forgot about it... I should really start writing these things down.

[overchill42]

Hey, if it's your villain then just give it to them. It's not like players audit NPC character sheets, right?

Or a scroll plus decent UMD. Whatever works.

[James Jacobs]

When I found out that witches can't summon or conjure outsiders, I became very sad. After all... one of my FAVORITE witches is Lovecraft's Keziah Mason, from "Dreams in the Witch House," and not being able to build a witch like her annoys me.

Which is why I helped design Dimensional Occultist archetype, and its associated Dimensions patron, on page 28 of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.

[OldManAlexi]

James Jacobs wrote:

When I found out that witches can't summon or conjure outsiders, I became very sad. After all... one of my FAVORITE witches is Lovecraft's Keziah Mason, from "Dreams in the Witch House," and not being able to build a witch like her annoys me.

Which is why I helped design Dimensional Occultist archetype, and its associated Dimensions patron, on page 28 of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide.

Yeah, knowing that witches can't conjure normally makes me seriously consider using the Dimensional Occultist archetype to fulfill this concept or possibly just taking the Dimensions patron without the archetype. It would definitely diversify the types of encounters she could throw at the party.

[Ksorkrax]

wraithstrike wrote:

Witches don't deal with outsiders so much even in media, that I have seen.

How about the Malleus Maleficarum and other medieval stuff about witches? I mean, it's basically just some medieval slander but that's where large parts of the concept of witches comes from (well ok, we got some predating stuff like old testament necromancers like the one Saul talks to or Kirke in the odyssey and the image of medieval witches was surely influenced by pagan mythology but the medieval times were when the concept was finally brought together, eh?)

[Fionnabhair]

My witch in Carrion Crown learned some extra spells by reading one of the books we found.

Spoiler:

It was the Book of Abstruse Geometries. It cost her what was left of her sanity, but she learned some planar spells, even though they weren't on the witch's spell list.

Just have your witch pick up some "forbidden" knowledge, and have an in-character reason for it. Maybe there was a cost associated with knowing things that weren't supposed to be known. Be creative.