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Upgrading non-armor armor.


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

When a magic item provides an armor bonus (not bracers of armor) can that bonus be upgraded? I was thinking of upgrading the armor bonus from the Kybwa'ka War Mask. Is it doable?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

If it is doable, what is the cost?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Nobody has anything on this?


no idea. commenting to let you know that you're not being ignored.


Cant find a rule .. so by RAW i would say no. In any other case i would say no too because it smells like cheese.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/m-p/mask- kybwa-ka-war
This is the item to which I refer to. I am not going to argue one way or another about what you define as cheese, a term I despise. Please be helpful, not hurtful. Thank you.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This seems to me to be an offshoot of the debate on whether specific armors and weapons can be upgraded. Unfortunately, on most items cost breakdowns are difficult. In that, how do you judge what counts as a plus one versus a flat cost. However, in this case if I was to judge I would allow it as bracers of armor just in the form of a mask and the special ability be a bonus with a flat cost. Just remember that your DM has final say on whether you can do it or not.


By RAW you can add an armor bonus (enhancement), an AC bonus (deflection or "other") or natural armor bonus to the mask with the normal magic item creation rules ("Adding new abilities").

Thats all you can do and all i would allow. In any case the mask counts as armor.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It's a wondrous item by the way. So the specific armor/weapon thing does not come into play. So, to boost the +1 to +2 would cost 3000gp, or 1500gp if you have the appropriate craft feat?


There are rules for this under magic item creation, which is in the back of the magic item section. In any case, armor bonus is a slotted bonus (bracer), so to add an armor bonus to a head-piece is double. So, armor bonus is bonus squared x 1000 = 4000 x 2 = 8000. That is the cost of the +2 armor bonus. The original item is 3700, 2000 of which is the armor bonus, so the other ability of the mask is 1700. Add that to the 8000 for the +2 armor bonus, and the +2 version of the mask costs 9700. A +3 version costs 19700, +4 costs 33700, +5 costs 51700, +6 costs 73700, +7 costs 99700, +8 costs 129700.

This is all in the realm of house-rules, as any magic item that is custom made is not RAW or allowed in PFS play. Plus the original item is not a pathfinder RPG item, but a dnd 3.5 item designed by paizo.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I see what you are saying, and it seems fair. What about armor abilities that have a flat cost?


Nothing has a flat cost in magic item creation, most everything is a geometric progression.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I was thinking Glamered +2,700 gp. There are other armor abilities that have a flat cost.


It is not armor, and thus is not eligible for armor abilities. It is a wondrous item, and follows the rules for wondrous item creation.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I see, thank you.


Mabven the OP healer wrote:

There are rules for this under magic item creation, which is in the back of the magic item section. In any case, armor bonus is a slotted bonus (bracer), so to add an armor bonus to a head-piece is double. So, armor bonus is bonus squared x 1000 = 4000 x 2 = 8000. That is the cost of the +2 armor bonus. The original item is 3700, 2000 of which is the armor bonus, so the other ability of the mask is 1700. Add that to the 8000 for the +2 armor bonus, and the +2 version of the mask costs 9700. A +3 version costs 19700, +4 costs 33700, +5 costs 51700, +6 costs 73700, +7 costs 99700, +8 costs 129700.

This is all in the realm of house-rules, as any magic item that is custom made is not RAW or allowed in PFS play. Plus the original item is not a pathfinder RPG item, but a dnd 3.5 item designed by paizo.

@Mabven: I'm under the impression that that the PC in question HAS the mask already and simply wants to upgrade it, not buy a new one. Upgrading an item that already is RAW, as long as it follows RAW calculations, should still be RAW. If that isn't RAW, it damn well should be.

I would call shenanigans on any DM who told me I couldn't improve something that was already magical - you can upgrade a magic sword or shield, but nothing else? Have you read this somewhere, and can you link me to a citation?

@OP: Mabven's calculations sound good to me, but only for creating a new mask. I would subtract the cost of the original from each total to get the upgrade price, which essentially is removing part of the equation. Those calculations are for the cost of a new item created with those bonuses.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

It did seem that upgrading an item should be totally within RAW. I am just unsure how to go about it.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
It did seem that upgrading an item should be totally within RAW. I am just unsure how to go about it.
d20PFSRD.com wrote:

Adding New Abilities

The cost to add additional abilities to an item is the same as if the item was not magical, less the value of the original item. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 longsword.

If the item is one that occupies a specific place on a character's body, the cost of adding any additional ability to that item increases by 50%. For example, if a character adds the power to confer invisibility to her ring of protection 2, the cost of adding this ability is the same as for creating a ring of invisibility multiplied by 1.5.


To make a mask that grants an armor bonus I would require both Craft misc and Craft arms+armor.

just my 2 cp.


The item is priced more or less like a standard wondrous item. It casts a spell effect once per day and has an armor bonus. It'd be priced as follows:

Most expensive effect first:
Cast scare once per day.
Spell level x caster level x (uses per day/5) x 1800 = 2x3x(1/5)x1800 = 2160

Then add the less expensive effect at 150% cost:
Armor bonus^2 x 1000 x 1.5 =1^2x1000x1.5 = 1500

2160 + 1500 = 3660, call it 3700 and you get the free action activation as a freebie.

If it had more armor, the armor would be the most expensive effect, then. So it would look like:

Armor bonus^2 x 1000 = 2^2 x 1000 = 4000
Spell level x caster level x (uses per day/5) x 1800 x 1.5 = 3240

Total: 7240 - the original item price = 7240-3700 = 3540 to upgrade it.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

3,700 gp is the original item cost. I am not sure what you are saying.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
3,700 gp is the original item cost. I am not sure what you are saying.

What I'm saying is that you can look at the original item price and see that it falls within the guidelines for crafting a general purpose wondrous item. So upgrading it would just involve calculating the price of the upgraded item and then subtracting the price of the original.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Ah, now I see. Thank you.

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