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i have some news you would be glad to hear.
the character i played for the last 8 months (and am still playing) is not tien and not a child. not even a fauxlita.
it's a Suli Battle Oracle of Gorum (Quadira Companion pre nerf version)
Still Female but here are some of the interesting notes the group has skimmed over and likely forgotten.
she is in her late 20's
5'6" (at least it's not 5'1")
150 pounds of raw amazonian muscle with 10 pack abs and a D cup.
keleshite (it was a DM imposed requirement to be a Suli)
battle scarred
actually wears heavy armor and bites both the speed penalty and the ACP (it's glamered full plate but still heavy armor)
doesn't wear japanese style clothing nor try and japanify an existing weapon. (full plate is glamered to look like heavy reddish brown desert robes reminiscent of arabian nights).
carries a greatsword. (would prefer polearm of some kind but greatsword is fine too due to the fact i can spam righteous might, freedom of movement and air walk)
actually doubles as a viable healer and viable radar in addition to a viable melee combatant. (even with dumped wisdom).
does this impress the people who once thought of me as creepy?
*Shrugs*
I never thought you were creepy...annoying maybe- due to the vast amount of pre-hide-post technology "Shuriken is creepy" posts.
thanks. is the Shuriken Alias finally redeemed?
Edit;
Weekly William offered to reward me with the oppurtunity to play a Tian rogue in the next camapign. i was thinking of a "pet" to another PCs planned (unconfirmed) cleric of Zon-Kuthon. i was thinking 21 years old and wears outlandish clothes to please her master's taste. and pretends to be 16 (which is legal in the setting).
edit; i plan to keep the details as light as i can get away with.
i was thinking of a "pet" to another PCs planned (unconfirmed) cleric of Zon-Kuthon. i was thinking 21 years old and wears outlandish clothes to please her master's taste. and pretends to be 16 (which is legal in the setting).
A 21 year old acting as a 16 year old as a "pet" to her master and to quickly acknowledge that the 16 year old age is legal in the setting?
Eh... I'll spare the Rule 34 links I can whip out on this.
edit; i plan to keep the details as light as i can get away with.
Go figure.
Still really creepy. Putting cup size on a character sheet doesn't help. Also, I second what Urizen said.
Also, there's no such thing as a 10 pack unless you're some kind of alien.
This not a step forward. Maybe not a step backwards. A step sideways into slightly different creepiness?
You need a bit more introspection if you want to overcome this.
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I don't mind I like creepy (I can be very creepy myself)
...
Now I want to play in a campaign where the whole party consist of Loli.
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>.>
<.<
Yeah. Still friggin creepy as all get out.
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Luminiere--
Although I've encountered some of your posts on threads, I don't know you well enough to be able to decide if you'd qualify as "creepy" or not. On the other hand, so far on this thread--
Okay, you're unconventional, unusual, have some interesting character ideas. Nothing that really creeps me out, and definitely nothing that I'd find too disturbing (so far) in a game.
'sides, with some of the people I know in fandom? The worst interpretations that can be made of the stuff you've said on this thread still looks pretty tame... (even though at least a bit of it goes farther than *I* would go in some directions)
What's a Luminiere anyway?
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What's a Luminiere anyway?
it's an intentional mispelling of Lumiere, which is french for light. Solas was an intetionally mispelled attempt at shortening solaras. the intention was based off a character i played named Lumiere Solaras Dawnbringer. the name wouldn't fit back in the day.
before i played Kyra the barbaric servant of the Iron Lord (the oracle i listed above). i played a male ulfen fighter named Sven Jotunson. he was 7'7", in his mid 20's, and weighed 400 pounds. wore platemail, carried a greatsword. a glaive, a longbow and a spiked gauntlet (all magical). he lasted 2 months. he was what one could consider a smart fighter. he also had a 10 pack. his grandmother was a frost giant.
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i am trying to come up with an ustalav appropriate design for my Tian Rogue, Akane Saitou. (soon to be played when we start carrion crown).
a slender, petite tian woman standing about 5'5" (65 inches) in height and weighing roughly 120 pounds. slight of frame and small of bust (roughly a b cup). fair and smooth skinned with black silky smooth hair and amber eyes. she wears her hair in a single medium length ponytail on the front left side (think of flandre scarlet). her attire consists of a black button up longsleeve shirt covering her upper body, sleeves rolled up to her wrists, with a red ascot, from her waist to her ankles is a simple black pleated skirt with a simple brown pair of leather boots. holding her hair in place is a simple red ribbon, hanging at the belt strapped upon her waist is a hanbo, a dagger and a slingshot with a pouch of small pebbles (seperate sections) and a coin purse. a backpack slung across a single shoulder. her smooth skin is well maintained and above her ascot is a canine collar with a leash attached which her master uses to keep her close. though 21, due to a combination of lucky genetics, decent skin care, and obscessive compulsive hygeine habits. she appears not much older than 16.
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well, i thought it was normal for authors to list the cup size of thier female characters in most works of fiction.
If those works of fiction is read out of Hustler, High Society, Cheri, or even Penthouse... It wouldn't surprise me if you read a lot of hentai.
I've read a lot of fiction in my time and while the words voluptuous and buxomed may be tossed around, it tends to be rare for a woman's cup size to be mentioned in explicit / specific fashion that you'd pick up from a Barnes & Noble or similar bookstore.
If you want to seem "less creepy", play the Sven Jotunson Nordic types and less of a 21-year old Asian woman who looks 16 and wears a canine collar for her master. I'll spare Paizo the Rule 34 links for this.
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well, i thought it was normal for authors to list the cup size of thier female characters in most works of fiction.If those works of fiction is read out of Hustler, High Society, Cheri, or even Penthouse... It wouldn't surprise me if you read a lot of hentai.
I've read a lot of fiction in my time and while the words voluptuous and buxomed may be tossed around, it tends to be rare for a woman's cup size to be mentioned in explicit / specific fashion that you'd pick up from a Barnes & Noble or similar bookstore.
If you want to seem "less creepy", play the Sven Jotunson Nordic types and less of a 21-year old Asian woman who looks 16 and wears a canine collar for her master. I'll spare Paizo the Rule 34 links for this.
Rule 34? i won't flag you for it. i really don't mind. i don't know how the other people feel. but i have seen far more disturbing things in other peoples fanfics.
the tian woman is the "pet", my cousin is going to roll up a L/N cleric of Zon-Kuthon to serve as the "Master". Weekly William has encouraged far more disturbing things.
Rule 34? i won't flag you for it. i really don't mind. i don't know how the other people feel. but i have seen far more disturbing things in other peoples fanfics.
the tian woman is the "pet", my cousin is going to roll up a L/N cleric of Zon-Kuthon to serve as the "Master". Weekly William has encouraged far more disturbing things.
What you got is some guy dressed up like a cenobite from Hellraiser holding a leash that is attached to the collar around the neck of a Japanese teenager wearing a schoolgirl outfit. B&D fetishism. And you're seeking the approval of a community on a game site.
Everyone has their kinks and fetishes. I'm open minded. Hell, I'm used as a punch line when a sexual innuendo can be made. It's almost like a predictable trope. I'm thought of as a perv, but I've yet to be labeled as "creepy."
But you're essentially creating a norm deviance by continuing to conjure role playing of submissive teenage(-appearing) females in a master-slave relationship. Because of that, you're making it difficult for yourself to suspend the master status you've created for yourself in this specific community for which you're trying to gain approval. You would have better success if you had left it to just your original post and moved on. But it seems to me at the first sign of approval, you felt exonerated and emboldened to share what you really wanted to present.
So you end up right back at square one.
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Luminiere--
As I've already seen on a few other (now blessedly closed or buried) threads around here.... I do not think Paizo's boards are the place to go to find open-minded, tolerant people willing and interested in discussing views that diverge seriously from general society's 'norms'-- particularly if it touches upon fetishes or sexuality at all, or if it's something that people just think might touch upon those things, or other behavior that the mainstream dubs 'deviant'.
Don't let 'em get you down.
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Yeah, objectifying pre-teen and teenage kids isn't creepy at all. News flash: Federal prison is full of gamer geeks who like little girls and little boys. Our hobby has a rep with the Fed authorities for being a magnet for pedophiles.
Yeah, let's stay open minded.
I haven't seen anything on this thread that crosses the pedophilia line-- if Luminiere has posted that sort of thing elsewhere, I suppose I simply haven't seen it. And yes, I agree with you that pedophilia is not okay.
However, considering the number of times already that I've seen prejudiced a**holes and bigots pouring out of the woodwork on these boards, whenever 'Furry' and 'Furries' are mentioned, or 'Catfolk', or 'Catgirls', or a political discussion touches on 'gay marriage', or numerous other issues... Not to mention the number of prejudiced a**holes who have so far jumped in on any discussion that mentions sexuality of almost any sort beyond what you'd see in a G-rated Disney movie (or that pop out of whatever holes they were hiding in when they just assume that sexuality or fetishes are going to come up in the discussion, even though no-one has mentioned anything of the sort yet, nor is anyone planning to)--
I think the comment about not looking here to find open-minded and tolerant people is called for.
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Dude, conflating the issue of gay marriage and pedophilia is a straw man , not to mention insulting to those folks who are gay. Gay marriage =\= pedophilia. And people are welcome to fantasize whatever TF they want in the privacy of their own skulls. Posting that crap up in a public forum and asking for affirmation that that sort of stuff isn't creepy, well it ain't going to happen. You want to think I am a prejudiced a&#*$%+ because of that, well feel free dude. I have had several close friends and family members affected by pedophilia and it is NOT ok. It is doubly not ok to air this crap on a public forum that is frequented by children.
I call it creepy. I call it like I see it.
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Dude, conflating the issue of gay marriage and pedophilia is a straw man , not to mention insulting to those folks who are gay. Gay marriage =\= pedophilia. And people are welcome to fantasize whatever TF they want in the privacy of their own skulls. Posting that crap up in a public forum and asking for affirmation that that sort of stuff isn't creepy, well it ain't going to happen. You want to think I am a prejudiced a**#~&~ because of that, well feel free dude. I have had several close friends and family members affected by pedophilia and it is NOT ok. It is doubly not ok to air this crap on a public forum that is frequented by children.
I call it creepy. I call it like I see it.
Patrick--
I didn't see the pedophilia posts elsewhere (though I'm not denying those may exist), and I'm not seeing them here (that, I'm pretty certain of). However, I am seeing a whole bunch of people jumping on Luminiere's case, without seeing Luminiere posting here about pedophilia, and it very much reminds me of the people who jump on some or ALL of the other issues I mentioned, and have done so on other threads. I'm not calling you a prejudiced a**hole, just mentioning that there seem to be quite a few that pop out on the boards (and even using that term at all was probably an over-statement on my part-- although I'm still rather pissed off at some of the folks who really jumped in some of those other issues that I've mentioned)-- if you hadn't noticed and read my post, I agreed that pedophilia was wrong in so many words. I do not equate pedophilia with being gay, or with gay marriage, or any of that. Right off the top-- pedophilia is clearly wrong, because it violates legal and moral standards of consent and consensual behavior (minors cannot legally give consent, and even if it appears to be consensual rather than forced, I don't think minors can really give moral consent for that sort of thing), and the results are clearly damaging to the person who's been abused this way.
BTW-- I apologize to you as well, if I presented my comments in such a way that have aggravated issues or concerns you have because of family members and friends who have been affected by pedophilia (In regard to pedophilia-- I do blame the predators and perpetrators, and hold their actions against them. I do not blame the victims).
However, where is the pedophilia on this thread?
Is Luminiere suggesting sex between adults and children, or for that matter between children? No (at least not here).
In fact the characters he or she (sorry, L.-- not sure which is correct for the person behind the screen and I'm not making assumptions) has been talking about in this thread are over 20-- of age everywhere.
The 16-year old appearance thing? Yeah, I can see how that'd bother some people... and an actual 16 year old would be illegal in some of the U.S. States-- but legal in other states, and legal in most of Europe. Not to mention in historical times... so, while I wouldn't do it in a game, or involve myself in that sort of thing in RL-- the 21 year old who looks 16 isn't pedophilia.
Has Luminiere mentioned some fetishes here? Yes. So far as I can tell, they're consensual (in the context here). Yes, Paizo's boards probably aren't the right place for this discussion.
But, unless I'm just really blind, or it's all stuff from other threads that you're digging up to use as ammo against Luminiere, I can't see anything that's been mentioned on this thread that is criminal, or non-consensual, or re-enacting criminal or non-consensual behavior... just stuff that exposes fetishes that people here aren't comfortable with-- so, while Luminiere should perhaps find a different audience for discussing his/her ideas for characters like these, it also still looks to me like you all are jumping on Luminiere's case simply for being different, and what you want to label as 'deviant'.
Now, if you've got other information I should see, that shows Luminiere crossing those lines into pedophilia, non-consensual behavior, and similar such things (or proposing characters that explicitly do those things in game), lemme know and tell me where I can review the evidence-- and I will revise my opinion and apologize, if I am in the wrong about why Luminiere seems to be being attacked.
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Look at the original post. He is crowing because instead of a fauxlita he has come up with a 'technically legal' character. Technically legal sure, also hella creepy especially due to previous statements. The whole thread is him patting himself on the back for coming up with something 'technically legal' and asking the rest
Of us to say: 'yay, what a great guy you are! Why a young-looking 16-year-old in a bondage relationship. What a huge stretch for you'. I still find him creepy, and I don't care if his new character is 'technically legal'. It's still flirting with the pedo fantasy. And if you wanna defend him I suggest you check out some of his PbP characters back stories. Idk if the stuff is still up but he had children being sodomized by vegetables and other wicked offensive s!&%.
I wouldn't even deem it open-mindedness. I believe it's disingenuous to ignore the context of the OP and the history that led to it, since the reactions to that history obviously led to this thread.
Actually, pedophilia is sexual attractin to PRE-pubescent children. A 16-year old wouldn't even register with a pedophile, far too pubescent. And we've had our fair share of this discussion here in Sweden.
So whatever Luminiere might like otherwise, it sure isn't pedophilia. Just sayin'
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Actually, pedophilia is sexual attractin to PRE-pubescent children. A 16-year old wouldn't even register with a pedophile, far too pubescent. And we've had our fair share of this discussion here in Sweden.
So whatever Luminiere might like otherwise, it sure isn't pedophilia. Just sayin'
Some folks still find Ephebophilia equally disturbing and find nitpicking an argument, unproductive.
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What's creepy to one may not be to another. When you open the barn door on opinions you'll get many, differing ones, and opposing ones. All shaped by the societies we were raised in. When delving into a new society/relationship you can choose to conform or rebel, or work to reshape it. Your path gets tougher if you make a mis-step. Expect that you will make mis-steps. The OP is looking for a line to be set between creepy and non-creepy and the truth of the matter is that the line will vary by individual, history, and situation.
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Most of the OP's characters center around the fauxlita trope. Let me quote from an article appearing in the NY Daily News:
"The 'faux-lita' or fake Lolita is a play on the title character in Vladimir Nabokov's 1955 novel about man who is brought to ruin by his obsession with a teenaged girl. Since then, 'Lolita' has become shorthand for a highly sexualized teen temptress."
I'm sure most people are familiar with Charlie Sheen and his "goddesses." A lot of younger women in porn are typically portrayed to appear as being teens (note Hustler's Barely Legal series). There's a market for it. Larry Flynt wouldn't be worth millions if there weren't.
Then there's material out there in the Bondage & Dominance niche (an offshoot of S&M) where you have a female dominatrix or male master bounding and/or humiliating their submissive slave.
These are niche fetishes - some more popular than others - that cater to certain groups. I'm not going to condemn or condone either way. If they're being done between two consenting adults, then that's their business. I'm not going to get myself involved in their lifestyle as much as I don't want anyone dictating mine.
But the OP is looking for approval. If he wants to play a fauxlita like those found in cosplay or films such as Sucker Punch, then fine.
I'm too lazy to search through the OP's prior posting history, but you're going to notice that just about every character he's wanting to put forth in a PbP or to discuss what he's playing in a F2F game, it's an Asian Fauxlita. In this situation, he also wants to throw on a collar and have her be subservient to a cleric of Zon-Kuthon.
Note the lovingly descriptive detail about how he described this PC. I'll spoiler it as did the OP:
Personally, I think the OP is reliving a fantasy and wants public acceptance for it. Unfortunately for the OP, he's not having an easy time discarding the master status he has created for himself on here. He would have been better off to omit any references to lolitas or sexualizing an individual under the legal age of consent as defined by the community at-large.
I haven't gone through the OP's PbP characters lately, but I've been given the impression that some of them may have been scrubbed to remove the impression of what may have existed previously. But there are plenty of posts that can be found when a PbP is joined, the overwhelming majority of the characters submitted by the OP is to be the same trope as being discussed here.
Some people have an obsession to play fighters or clerics (or non-lawful good Paladins). Some may stick to certain races given the bonuses that are synergistically favorable to certain classes. Some people want to play their Raistlin Majere or Drizzt Do'Urden archetypes. They earn their own ire and ridicule in typical fashion by others.
But a reoccurring theme of a submissive Asian fauxlita with a specification of what chronological age she looks like and a caveat reminder that in a certain community it's a legal age? Yeah, that's going to throw some red flags.
Charlie Sheen gets away with it because he's at a position where he can overcome the master status because of his perceived power and position. But he's not putting collars on them in public. He's not being explicit by saying that they look under the age of 18.
I'm not here attempting to condemn or condone the OP. But if he is being truthfully authentic in wanting to gain more acceptance in a community he wants to involve himself in, then he has to realize where the boundaries are. Otherwise, he may be well served to locate other communities that are groomed to accepting a archetype preference that he cannot seem to break himself from roleplaying.
With regard to LGBT or "furries", I am well aware that some people may see either of those communities as uncomfortable. I have no issues with LGBT, but I admit that the "furries" cos-play is a bit over my head. Especially with the implication that there are those in that community that wishes to participate in consensual sex while wearing the costumes. That's where it starts getting weird for some folks because it flirts with a bestiality perception.
But there's no mention in either of those about being a sexualized teenager or appearing as if under the legal age as dictated by the standards of that social group. It's the implied (not overt) flirtation with pedophilia by sexualizing youth that's the deal breaker. And on top of that, to make them appear as a submissive "pet" to an adult power figure.
I'm well aware that correlation does not imply causation, but the OP isn't doing himself any favors by continuing to draw attention to it by creating the means to critique his behavior pattern(s).
YMMV.
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Well, all I know is that the OP is correct and that every work of fiction that I have ever read has mentioned the cup-size of the female protagonist's breasts. Some nonfiction, too.
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This thread just reminds me why I love role playing games, but, damn, gamers make me nervous. That, and 90% of the TTRPG gamers in Federal prison were there for kiddie porn and stuff. And spouted the same "open minded" arguments when confronted about their crime.
I really couldn't care less what the "age of consent" is in most states (apparently it's 16, most with a bunch of caveats where even that is illegal), an adult male piling on a high school sophomore is disgusting.
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Just for the record - I never intended to give an 'open minded' argument. I just see a difference between pedophilia and Ephebophilia - mandatory psychology classes for my course of studies might have influenced my view on that (it helps differentiating between pathological disorders and behavior I might find disgusting), but in no way do want to defend the abuse of minors or describing those (even in fantasy) in public.
That, and 90% of the TTRPG gamers in Federal prison were there for kiddie porn and stuff.I'm sorry, this confused me. Were the Table-Top Gamers in prison because of kiddie pron, or did they TTRPG to get access to it and stuff?
I believe HD is saying that of the individuals he conversed with while in the Federal Penitentiary that labeled themselves as TTRPGers, 90% of them were in there due to a conviction involving "kiddie porn and stuff." I don't believe they were using TTRPG solely as a vehicle to obtain access to it.
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okay, a few of my characters may have had questionable backstories. but those are backstories. they were merely made to sell the character. it's not my fault that a few PBP GMs selected a few odd characters with questionable backstories. sometimes, a hint of sexuality helps me get the character into the PBP.
P.S. i can't stand kiddie porn, it is so disgusting.
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And here I was letting you in the game because I thought you might use your childish looks to see if the children knew anything about the murderers... ;D
Oh well, never thought you overly creepy.
that was the initial intent. not all of my characters were intentionally given sexual quirks. unless you count chastity as one.
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They were convicted sex offenders, mostly for kiddie porn. They didn't get into gaming in prison, they gamed before hand.
And it sucked. When I was there before, kiddie porn wasn't the big thing for the Feds, drugs were. So there wasn't a stigma attached to gaming. When I violated and went back for a few months, the whole system changed, there were hundreds of sex offenders there (they were a much smaller percentage of the population during my first tour) and a majority of them were table top gamers. Most of them had the same anime/manga loli obsession this dude seems to have, and most were adamant that they weren't deviant weirdos at all (like the OP). No non-sex offender gamers would run games because they were so attached to the "cho-mo/Chester" crowd.
I was asked to run a game since my long running table from before was well regarded, and the guys could game with me safely without worrying about getting labelled. But, when I left, that game stopped again. So now, according to the last e-mail I got from one of my friends there, the Chesters are the only ones running games again.
So, that experience, coupled with my negative experiences at FLGSs and cons with socially maladjusted goofballs who creep me out, sends up a ton of flags every time this guy posts trying to find some kind of approval for his weirdness.
Our hobby has enough of a negative stigma with mainstream "normal" people. Being "open minded" about creepy BSDM loli loving weirdos isn't helping.