If I am the GM and you attempt to make a "cursed item" by "choosing to fail" your craft check, I am going to rule that you simply didn't make an attempt, and that the effort was wasted.
This sort of thing is an exploit. I despise exploits.
If a player wants to work with me on creating a cursed item, I'll work with them, but then the item will cost and take an effort that is reasonable based on the item's utility and power.
The "other thread" was one where a poster was suggesting creating "dust of sneezing and coughing" which is a ridiculously broken item that essentially is an "I win" item for just about any encounter in the game. That sort of exploit simply isn't going to fly in my campaigns.
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Creating a cursed item is no more powerful than crafting a non-custom item. It is in fact more harmful to the creator on the whole, as now he has a item that he cannot use. The time and money will never be replaced. If a player asks to coup de grace himself, you don't need tell him you think that's overpowered and not allowed.
Creating a cursed item is no more powerful than crafting a non-custom item. It is in fact more harmful to the creator on the whole, as now he has a item that he cannot use. The time and money will never be replaced. If a player asks to coup de grace himself, you don't need tell him you think that's overpowered and not allowed.
Go look up the "dust of sneezing and choking" and tell me it's "no more powerful" than the "dust of appearance" or "dust of tracelessness" which is what was supposedly attempting to be made. The cursed dust is a 5d4 round STUN effect if the victim SUCCEEDS on a saving throw. It does 3d6 con damage on a FAILED save. Yeah, tell me that's "no more powerful."
Cursed items are frequently game-changing overpowered. That's why they are so feared.
Blackboodtroll, I don't know if you are being deliberately disingenuous, or if you truly don't understand the purpose behind the "I want to create cursed items" concept.
The idea of creating cursed items is not so that they will be inflicted on THE CREATOR. They are intended to be produced as weapons or devices that will give the PC an advantage. RD's desire to create "dust of sneezing and choking" was specifically intended so he could throw it at an old black dragon so a level seven party could slaughter the dragon at their leisure.
No, not more powerful than other magic items at all. After all there's probably several dozen level seven appropriate magic items that give instant wins against old black dragons.
Why there's uh.... and oh... and er...
Well, OK, I can't think of any now, but based on your "no more powerful" there must be a slew of them. /sarcasm
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I seem to be some what in the wrong here, my apologies if I came off rudely. I believe for the most part, cursed items are not unbalanced, but I do believe there are exceptions to the rule. RAW stops no one from creating such items, but DMs can houserule. Disallowing a few bad apples should level everything out.
I love it when I inspire new threads. :P
One of my favorite examples of deliberately creating a cursed item for a purpose is to make a necklace of strangulation, and present it to the local lord as a gift (preferably through a third party that doesn't lead back to you) that will protect him against poisons.
One of the advantages of cursed items is that they look like, and sometimes even function like, normal magical items. As far as the lord and his court are concerned, it really is just a periapt of proof against poison.
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The other thing is, you really can't create a specific cursed item. You can create a cursed item on purpose, but you really can not choose how it is cursed. That is in the realm of the DM, and a few random rolls. You can try to create a Dust of Sneezing and Choking, but the item may just change a person's gender. There really shouldn't be any thing stopping a player, other than the luck of the draw.
The other thing is, you really can't create a specific cursed item. You can create a cursed item on purpose, but you really can not choose how it is cursed. That is in the realm of the DM, and a few random rolls. You can try to create a Dust of Sneezing and Choking, but the item may just change a person's gender. There really shouldn't be any thing stopping a player, other than the luck of the draw.
It seems simple enough to me. To create dust of sneezing and choking, for example, you simply treat it identically to creating dust of disappearance or dust of tracelessness (since that's what it's based on) using their costs, CL, spellcraft DC, spell prerequisites, etc. (Use the requirements for whatever one you want your cursed item to APPEAR to be.)
If you beat the check, you get your cursed item (since that's what you were going for), not the base item. If you fail the check than you either end up with the base item or a DIFFERENT cursed item than intended.
It's still plenty dangerous, as that necklace of strangulation you sent as a gift to the local lord may only serve to protect him from poisons instead, or worse, turn on you somehow because its curse differed from expectations.
Evil NPCs deliberately create specific cursed items ALL THE TIME. I see no reason PCs shouldn't be allowed to do it from time to time (provided they aren't out to break the game and ruin fun for all).
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There is no real way of controlling what the curse is. Even if you make a cursed item on purpose, there is no way of knowing what the curse until you "try it out". That necklace of strangulation maybe a necklace of blue skin. As for evil NPCs, they may have already had some poor sap test out the cursed item, to see if it does what they want.
There is no real way of controlling what the curse is. Even if you make a cursed item on purpose, there is no way of knowing what the curse until you "try it out". That necklace of strangulation maybe a necklace of blue skin. As for evil NPCs, they may have already had some poor sap test out the cursed item, to see if it does what they want.
That's only true if you weren't TRYING to create a cursed item.
If I want dust of tracelessness and botch the check, then I could end up with any number of cursed items.
However, if I'm setting out to make dust of choking and sneezing, that should be exactly what I get*. It shouldn't be any harder than making a normal magical item.
Take this real world analogy, for example: I know how to bake cakes. I know what goes into them, and many of the things that could go wrong (such as having improper ingredient ratios that keep the cake from rising properly). If I choose to make a botched cake that doesn't rise properly, I'm NOT going to end up with a cake that explodes, or poisons my guests. I'm going to end up with a cake that doesn't rise properly. Why? Because I already know how to bake cakes.
Replace baking cakes wit crafting magic items and the botched cake with cursed magic items. Seem logical yet?
* I still believe there should be a Spellcraft check DC to beat, likely the same one as the item you are trying to emulate.
I hear what you are saying. RAW does not quite agree with you. You can get a cursed item on purpose, you just cannot choose the curse. Cake is delicious, but not magic. Magic works different.
I disagree. RAW is perfectly on my side.
Cursed magic items are still magic items. If you have the appropriate crafting feats, you can create any magic item in the game (GM permitting, of course).
So, Dust of Sneezing and Choking, which started this whole thing, IS horribly overpowered. My favorite combo is Necklace of Adaptation+Dust of Sneezing and Choking: the whole spread of folks around you is @ least 5 rounds down (assuming they saved) while you idly walk around delivering coup d'gras.
I do agree w/Ravingdork, that one should be able to craft DoSaC just like any other item.
Given the devastating effects of this particular item, it should be crafted at a cost commensurate with those effects, not with the other Dust items (which it clearly, completely, hands-down exceeds in power). [Older versions of D&D included costs for cursed items; kind of a shame there isn't a cost listed for this.]
Cloudkill seems like a decent jumping off point, maybe heightened. Or possibly circle of death... not sure. I may need to stat out building this now... damn you, curiosity bump.
Alitan: I would totally agree with such a ruling if a GM made it.
I would use power word kill as a jumping off point, as it's essentially death without a save.
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After careful consideration, I am inclined to agree with you Ravingdork. I too have had my times in which I desired something cursed, like a helm of opposite alignment. How one controls the type cursed item needs some sort of rule, as there are many curses and there is no real limit to how many an item can have.
The problem is that RAW doesn't agree with RD or you blackbloodtroll. RAW only describes a single way of creating cursed items and that is by failing at attempting to create a non-cursed item. Simply asserting that you are "trying to create a cursed item" and therefore your craft check is all that is needed is nothing but wishful thinking.
If you want to create a deliberately cursed item and I'm your GM, you will need to talk to me and work out the process and the cost. And it will not cost remotely the same to create "dust of sneezing and choking" as it does to create "dust of tracelessness."
Isn't the point supposed to be that you don't know the item is cursed until you test it?
Specifically on the powder, seems like by the rules that means you use up the dose...
Don't rain on RD's parade Archaeik!
Isn't the point supposed to be that you don't know the item is cursed until you test it?
Specifically on the powder, seems like by the rules that means you use up the dose...
Identify check?
Identify check?Isn't the point supposed to be that you don't know the item is cursed until you test it?
Specifically on the powder, seems like by the rules that means you use up the dose...
You just need to beat the identify check by 10 to know it's cursed. Once you know it's cursed an identify check of the original DC will determine the nature of the curse.
So not hard to do.
Yeah I know that was my point. The question mark was indicating why not use an identity check. I've got to stop trying to use punctuation for tone.
Identify check?Isn't the point supposed to be that you don't know the item is cursed until you test it?
Specifically on the powder, seems like by the rules that means you use up the dose...
As simple as that. What's more, if you are deliberately creating a cursed item, it wouldn't be any harder than creating a normal magical item (and wouldn't produce a different cursed item unless you failed your Spellcraft check).
I still think the randomness creates balance.
You are SO Chaotic/Neutral, aren't you?
;)
The book says: "When a magic item creation fails by 5 or more, roll the table 6–1 to determine the type of curse possessed by the item.
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So, BY THE RULES, in order to create a specific cursed item, all you need to do is spam cheap magic items and choose to fail on purpose each time.
Of course you can make up your own rules, but then you might be playing a different game altogether.