I'd add my vote to moving away from the cursed item chat, and going back to constructive advice because the cursed item wouldn't work for one of two reasons:
1. The GM is being a jerk and putting a (nigh) unbeatable foe in as a roadblock, and will just continue to be a jerk and the dust won't work.
2. The dragon is being put in as a plot point and the players are trying to circumvent it for the hell of it, in which case the GM should tell them straight up OOC that a clever plan and good dice rolls might work, but a questionable rules loophole will just be Rule 0'd.
In short if the game is already player vs GM, the plan won't work, and unless they want it to become player vs GM it shouldn't be attempted.
Any of them have Craft Wondrous Item? If you were 9th-level you could just make some dust of sneezing and choking. Throw that in the dragon's face, then have your ninja coup de grace it with the Dastardly Finish feat.
Kills every dragon dead automatically. Well, just about every living creature too, but that's besides the point.
Since you're not 9th-level, you can't get the coup de grace with the Dastardly Finish feat, but you can use multiple doses of dust of choking and sneezing to keep the dragon perpetually stun-locked while you slowly take him apart with more traditional abilities.
I love the things you think of Raving Dork... but this has some problems. Dastardly finish lets you coup de grace the stunned dragon, great. Coup de grace states: "A rogue also gets her extra sneak attack damage against a helpless opponent when delivering a coup de grace."
Dastardly finish states: "Benefit: You can deliver a coup de grace to cowering or stunned targets."Since dastardly finish does not explicitly state that you get your sneak attack damage for delivering the coup de grace, you don't. Your ninja gets critical weapon damage. Hopefully he's using a x4 weapon, otherwise chances are good the dragon will make his save.
Regardless, not a very helpful suggestion for what was asked either. My recommendation? It is not possible for the stated party to kill this dragon.
Since dastardly finish does not explicitly state that you get your sneak attack damage for delivering the coup de grace, you don't. Your ninja gets critical weapon damage. Hopefully he's using a x4 weapon, otherwise chances are good the dragon will make his save.
Regardless, not a very helpful suggestion for what was asked either. My recommendation? It is not possible for the stated party to kill this dragon.
What on earth would possible convince you that a rogue does not get sneak attack damage when using Dastardly finish?
The Sneak attack rules state "The rogue's attack deals extra damage anytime her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the Rogue flanks her target."
The Stunned condition denies dexterity bonus to AC.
Coup de Grace says "you hit, and score a critical hit", so it is not ambigious - there is an attack, you just don't need to roll.
The rules you have quoted are clarification text, not exclusionary text. Nothing in that text states that those are the ONLY conditions in which a rogue can deal sneak attack during a Coup de Grace.
Oh, and for the party. Yeah, run away. Sometimes the world isn't built around APL+2.
Duh, I totally forgot about the fact that he was stunned. I'll just put this back... *sticks foot back in mouth*
With 10k...
- Scroll of Greater Planar Binding, call upon an Astral Deva
- Also offer up 3000gp (the last 2000+ is divided among the party) to the Angel's holy cause, in exchange for help in defeating an old, evil dragon, which I'm sure is a threat to someone good.
- If 3k aint enough, that's why you drank a Potion of Glibness. Talk about the horrible things the dragon did, and is about to do, and that "we need your help!". I'm sure this is the sort of thing the angel would want to hear, and is very NOT far fetched. Make sure the party face does this negotiation.
Now the party has a CR14 Astral Deva among them. This should help the cause nicely.
Just one last point about the Dust of Sneezing and Choking: It could very easily TPK your party instead of make the dragon an easy kill.
It's a bag of dust. Nothing in the description (or the descriptions of the items it works like) makes any mention that you get to choose where the 20f radius starts from. It only says you "cast it into the air." Which means... whoever is using this dust, that's where the 20f radius is centered on.
Just one last point about the Dust of Sneezing and Choking: It could very easily TPK your party instead of make the dragon an easy kill.
It's a bag of dust. Nothing in the description (or the descriptions of the items it works like) makes any mention that you get to choose where the 20f radius starts from. It only says you "cast it into the air." Which means... whoever is using this dust, that's where the 20f radius is centered on.
Actually, it's a bag of dust, that means there is nothing stopping me from hurling that bag of dust at something and watching the bag go *poof*
By the way, I'll probably be using this Dust of Sneezing on my party for a hit and run encounter by a pissed off mage.
}:)
Just one last point about the Dust of Sneezing and Choking: It could very easily TPK your party instead of make the dragon an easy kill.
It's a bag of dust. Nothing in the description (or the descriptions of the items it works like) makes any mention that you get to choose where the 20f radius starts from. It only says you "cast it into the air." Which means... whoever is using this dust, that's where the 20f radius is centered on.
Even if the GM strictly adheres to this logic, it's still beneficial. You have one character run in and set off the dust bomb (I reccomend someone tough enough to soak up the AoO, like the party tank). He'll be fine because the dragon will be stunned too. Then you have the rogue run in and start making coup de grace attempts again and again until he dragon is dead. The odds of the dragon NOT being dead by the time his stuned condition ends are astronimcally remote.
In short, the plan still works in full (provided a large enough party).
Garrote? Suffocation is deadly at any level.
Not sure if you can reliably beat a 39 CMD for 46 (2x 23con) rounds.
You don't have to make those checks every round, if you.apply the choke, he has to succeed in holding his breath or will begin to suffocate and die within a couple rounds. But definitely a tough dc to hit in the first place
What gives you that idea?
Garrote
Description: In order for you to use a garrote, your opponent must be helpless or unaware of you. You must make a grapple check (though you avoid the -4 penalty for not having two hands free) to successfully begin garroting your opponent. Sneak attack damage does not apply to a garrote. Your garroted opponent must make a concentration check to cast a spell with a verbal component, use a command word item, or use any magic requiring speech. You gain the following additional option when grappling with a garrote.
Choke: You cut off your target's air supply so he has to hold his breath (see Suffocation, and the Swim skill for additional information). Any round you do not maintain the choke, your opponent can take a breath and restart when he has to begin making Constitution checks.
So using a garrote gives you the choke option as you grapple. To grapple you have to make a check every round to maintain it. If you fail one, the dragon gets to take a breath. Lastly, the 46 rounds comes from the dragon having a 23 Con. The suffocation section states: "A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. If a character takes a standard or full-round action, the remaining duration that the character can hold her breath is reduced by 1 round."
So, its 46 rounds if the dragon just takes move actions, or 23 rounds if he is also busy escaping from the grapple. Also, if you let go for a single round, he gets to breath and start it over.
Conclusion: Garrote is not the way to go.
If it can't be thrown (I don't believe it can) the entire idea is negated by water and/or flight... unless you are also flying I suppose, but I think it would be a tough one to pull off.
Seeing as characters generally have ready access to flight, that isn't much of an escape. Water would proably do the trick though.
Conclusion: Garrote is not the way to go.
While this may be the case, I still want to see this happen in a game. Hell, I want to do it. I want to strangle a dragon to death.
Get the guy from Man vs. Wild on the phone, I have a television opportunity for him.