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Is "Per Day" actually "Per 8 hours" or "Per 24 hours"?


Rules Questions

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Hitdice wrote:

Actually, now that I've had time to let the question stew for a bit, "per day" in terms of daily use powers such as wild shape become an interesting thought problem. If you expend your uses for a given day, do you have to wait till dawn/midnight/daily reset, or 24 hours from time of first daily allotted use?

Look, nerds like D&D, and nerds like algebra; I don't see what the problem is...

Hmmm... not sure. I think I'd place the "count" for daily use powers and other similar such abilities (if a caster) as being refreshed at the same time as the caster renews spells for the day (whether that's Sorcerer waking up from a rest, the Oracle having the powers "just reload" after sleep, wizard hitting the books, Druidic meditation, the Cleric's prayer-power hour....). If not a caster, then some agreed upon, astronomically predictable point of the day-- dawn, noon, sunset, whatever, so long as it's consistent (easier than remembering and tracking exact times of day for each use). Seems to be how it's usually done (and been done) in the current groups.


If I reckless and hated prepared casters, I'd make a wish that hours were 8 days long. Not only would it screw up time forever, but it'd make all prepared casters useless.

Shadow Lodge

Huh?


Ragnarok Aeon wrote:
If I reckless and hated prepared casters, I'd make a wish that hours were 8 days long. Not only would it screw up time forever, but it'd make all prepared casters useless.

This may have just exploded my head.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

What the heck did he just say?


My group has always ran it as a "day" being 8 hours. Resting 8 hours means starting a new workday. This is how it worked in games like Baldur's Gate I & II and other D&D computer games as well (including the 3rd Edition rules Icewind Dale II). This appeared to be the intended method with WotC as well, since everything revolves around 8 hours of rest. Even when they released the Expanded Psionics Handbook, your power point recovery was limited to powers you had used outside of the last 8 hours (which generally meant after an 8 hour rest you could recharge fully).

There are several reasons for this. The biggest reason is verisimilitude. Planets rotate at different speeds, and not every world is going to have the exact same timeline as our own. Some worlds may have 12 hour days, some worlds may have days that are much longer. However, everything in the game based around days is measured in 8 hour intervals; which makes it good enough for us.

It seems strange to suggest that after having a full night's rest that you wouldn't reclaim your abilities. I mean, if the Barbarian used up his rage but then goes and gets a full night's sleep and awakes the next day, but not the next 24 hour day, why should he be denied rage? "Oh, I'm sorry, I can't get royally pissed at our enemies for another...oh, six hours or so."

I realize that not everyone will agree, but there you have it. :\

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've allowed repreparation of spells after 8 hours, but expended slots remained expended until 24 had passed. For much the same reasoning mentioned up thread about 'spells per day'. I will have to reconsider this now.


wraithstrike wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.

They know what a day is Wraith... they just rationalize to pursue a desired end result.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Reparations? Are your players minorities wronged by the government?


shallowsoul wrote:
Pretty much what the title says.

24 hours. Unless your game setting has a planetary rotation of 8 hours, in which case it would be 8 hours.

The game assumes a day is a DAY, not 8 hours.

Andoran

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Re-preparations. Autocorrect got me.

I think my homebrew setting will have 18 hour days, 8 hours of daylight, 8 hours of night, with one hour transition periods. Possibly due to the sun actually being the sun gods chariot. :)


TriOmegaZero wrote:

Re-preparations. Autocorrect got me.

I think my homebrew setting will have 18 hour days, 8 hours of daylight, 8 hours of night, with one hour transition periods. Possibly due to the sun actually being the sun gods chariot. :)

My homebrew has solar cycles similar to our own, but it has 7 moons, which sometimes cause periods of "day night" due to extended eclipses and such.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
deinol wrote:
Chef's Slaad wrote:

1) In my game: any time after an 8 hour period of rest (which would be 3am if the party starts to rest at 7pm)

2) again, after 8 hours of rest, the party is good to go. If the party had a midnight mission and rest late (say 4 am), they still have access to their per day abilities after resting (or at noon).

Can you point to a rule that actually supports that conclusion?

No, that's why I said in my game.

deinol wrote:


PRD wrote:


A wizard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: Wizard. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Intelligence score (see Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells).

A wizard may know any number of spells. He must choose and prepare his spells ahead of time by getting 8 hours of sleep and spending 1 hour studying his spellbook. While studying, the wizard decides which spells to prepare.

So in order to prepare new spells it must:

A) Be the next day.

B) He must have also had 8 hours of sleep and spend 1 hour studying.

You can't ignore one clause and just use the other. If you want to be very strict, it almost sounds like he must get all 8 hours of sleep during the next day. So clearly a Wizard should always go to bed at midnight, wake up, and study his spells to be ready to go at 9AM every morning.

It is certainly unclear when you should reset the day. I think midnight or dawn are logical choices, as long as everyone in the group resets at the same time.

If that's the way you want to run it, that's fine. As Ogre points out, in the few instances it is an issue, it's DM fiat.

Osirion

Create Demiplane, Greater
and a Rod of Security so while in the rod you don't age, as 100 plus days go by and you do what ever you need to do. Then you come back to the real world after only 8 hours have passed ...

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Okay, I totally agree with the "official stamp". But in regards to crafting/earning money/etc, what is considered a "day". I know you can only do 8 hours of crafting magical items, but could you then spend 8 hours performing a craft or profession skill check to earn money? And then wrap it all up with 8 hours of sleep?

I know for me, that if I work on something 8 hours a day, that I don't want to spend another 8 hours working on something else. The flip side of that is if I spend 8 hours a day working, then 8 hours a day working on my campaign (still work, but not nearly as strenuous, and still productive), and 8 hours sleeping...?

I'm trying to find a offical (written hopefully) ruling that a player can only spend 8 hours "working" and the rest must be spent doing non-productive stuff and resting. Otherwise, it's like Forced March, and requires Fortitude saves every hour to avoid Fatigue.

Anybody have opinions or places to look for clairification?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I've always used the 3E/expansion on duration-in-rounds version, which basically says 24-hours from the start of the period you're measuring. This does sometimes cause oddities (such as a wizard crafting - the earlier in the day his first day of crafting begins, the better for him, since he won't be forcibly required to wait until (say) mid-afternoon on day 2 before he can get his 8 crafting hours in), but for the most part it works out okay.

I suppose another way to manage it would be to say that per-day abilities reset at midnight (insert other arbitrary fixed time here) or the end of the next/current 8-hour rest, whichever comes later.

Silver Crusade

Cpt. Caboodle wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Thanks for chiming in. I think it is a sad day when people don't know what a day is though.
Well, how long is a sad day, then?

A sad day is still 24 hours, it just feels longer.


William Sinclair wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:

Just to put a nice official stamp on it... a "Day" is a length of 24 hours.

Okay, I totally agree with the "official stamp". But in regards to crafting/earning money/etc, what is considered a "day". I know you can only do 8 hours of crafting magical items, but could you then spend 8 hours performing a craft or profession skill check to earn money? And then wrap it all up with 8 hours of sleep?

This should fall into the realm of a DM's call. Some professions are less taxing than others, and some people find working a specific job less taxing. A bard telling stories that she's told over and over before to a crowd of easily amused children, or someone playing the stool pigeon with little to do in a con.

Certainly, characters are explicitly allowed to spend 4 hours working a day when primarily doing something else (for 2 hours worth of progress). So it clearly isn't 8 hours on, 16 off.

Also, the 24 hour limit is a mechanical thing, as well as representing exhaustion. In a world where a Lesser Restoration removes fatigue, if it were purely an character energy thing, your wizard could craft for 16 hours a day, no problem.

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