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RPG Superstar 2015

POLL: Your Favorite Joss Whedon TV Series?


Television

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I'm equally fascinated with Buffy and Firefly.

.


I like all of them in each their special way. Except for Dollhouse. Dollhouse was merely okay. It didn't get interesting until Epitaph One.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If instead of making Dollhouse, Joss Whedon had made a show entirely in the near future post apocalypse of Epitaph One, it would have been waaaaay better, IMO.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Brown coats forever!

Later,

Mazra


DeathQuaker wrote:
If instead of making Dollhouse, Joss Whedon had made a show entirely in the near future post apocalypse of Epitaph One, it would have been waaaaay better, IMO.

I'm sure whedon will get right on it

Spoiler:
as soon as a futuristic version of gunslinger girl comes out :-P

The movie featuring Freehold DM vs Joss Whedon. Coming soon to a theater near you.


I thank you all for your support. I do all my own stunts btw.

Shadow Lodge

Watch out, Freehold. I hear he has Captain America take care of his light work.


To this I say BRING IT WHEDON!!! I WILL ENJOY ROOTING THROUGH YOUR POCKETS AFTER I DEFEAT YOU!!!!

I really hope he has some good stuff on him.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Spoiler:
Sadly this was lost on me as I don't know what gunslinger girl is.

I would totally watch the Freehold DM vs Joss Whedon movie.

(DeathQuaker fighting the Groosalugg will be in the background, and nobody really understands what I just said except me.)

Shadow Lodge

I remember him. So, would this be fighting, or "fighting" ?


Has there been any news on a sequel to Dr. Horrible?

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
I remember him. So, would this be fighting, or "fighting" ?

Fighting. (Seriously? Ew.)

The editor of the Angel comic said he liked my username (I used to post at the SlayAlive message boards) and would make a comic about DeathQuaker vs the Groosalugg. Sadly he was not serious. :)


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

My favorite Whedon show is definitely ANGEL.

Each character had an arc and I loved ALL OF THEM.

I like that the show's message was that you may not be able to beat evil EVER, but even when the odds are overwhelmingly against against you? YOU FIGHT ANYWAY. and leave an impression.

I thought that the ANGEL series finale was probably one of the best series finales that I'd ever seen. And the final fates of several of the characters who had been with Angel from the or near the beginning were pretty satisfying.

Second favorite show is probably FIREFLY.

After that DOLLHOUSE

Then...Seasons 2&3 of Buffy.

Shadow Lodge

DeathQuaker comics? Sounds a bit like an alternate version of Solomon Kane.

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

2 people marked this as a favorite.

Buffy.

Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."

After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.

I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.

Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.

The Exchange

Paizo Superscriber

FIREFLY. no question about it. Jayne rules.


Erik Mona wrote:

Buffy.

Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."

After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.

I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.

Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.

"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.

Firefly can't really be compared to Buffy/Angel. It's not fair considering it had one aborted season. Most episodes were great and had that Whendon polish, but it never really had the proper time to grow.

Dollhouse is another tough comparison. The original concept wasn't even Joss's. There was more studio interference. And it certainly didn't get decent until he had more creative freedom to go beyond "upscale hooker flavor of the week" scenarios.


Buffy, then Angel. To me those are the only enjoyable things Whedon had his hands in, Dollhouse just to me had a stupid premise, and the less said about Firefly the better.


Kthulhu wrote:
DeathQuaker comics? Sounds a bit like an alternate version of Solomon Kane.

death quaker comics? That's an awesome name for company. I'd read on a regular basis, provided it had non whedon fare.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Firefly was and is the greatest TV show in the history of the world. The worst episode is still better than 99% of what's on today.

Its cancellation was the greatest injustice perpetrated on humanity since the holocaust. You know it's true.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil_Lyn_666 wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Buffy.

Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."

After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.

I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.

Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.

"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.

Firefly can't really be compared to Buffy/Angel. It's not fair considering it had one aborted season. Most episodes were great and had that Whendon polish, but it never really had the proper time to grow.

Dollhouse is another tough comparison. The original concept wasn't even Joss's. There was more studio interference. And it certainly didn't get decent until he had more creative freedom to go beyond "upscale hooker flavor of the week" scenarios.

The problem with Dollhouse is getting past the setup of the first 8 or so episodes. Once they start delving into the various possible applications for the "doll tech" that's when the show really starts taking off. Once you get to the end of S1 "Epitaph" and then S2 proper then the show really hit it's stride and becomes something very different that what it started out as.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil_Lyn_666 wrote:
Erik Mona wrote:

Buffy.

Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."

After that, I'd put the last couple of seasons of Angel, which were far superior to the sluggish first couple of seasons of the show.

I can't get into Firefly. Everyone tells me it's awesome, and I believe it, but I've never given it a full chance. This one is on me.

Never even bothered with Dollhouse. I thought it looked pretty dumb.

"I Will Remember You", "Smile Time", "A Whole in the World" Angel easily rivals Buffy. Buffy always felt trapped in a highschool world even well after Buffy officially left it. Angel was always the more adult series. Seasons 2/3/4 were practically one giant arc. And all Buffy character who wound up on Angel were always made better because of it. Wesley, Cordelia, Faith, and even Angel himself were so much more because of Angel.

Smile Time is probably my singel favorite episode of Angel next to Never Fade Away and Youre Welcome.

The only episode of Buffy I think comes close to those that I like is The Body. Once More with Feeling is a little overhyped for what it is. It's a well done musical episode but that's really all it is A MUSICAL EPISODE in the middle of a crappy season of Buffy. THe Body on the other hand was an honest and pure emotional gut punch.

Smile Time though?

"Alright...which one of you short bus bastards turned the CEO of Wolfram and Hart into a puppet?!?"

"I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole!!!"

[After Grufus segways the conversation away from consuming the souls of children to a new educational segment he's working on...]
Polo: Are you out of your mind?
Grufus: Well, we want it to be good, don't we?
Polo: We eat babies' lives!
Grufus: And uphold a certain quality of ed-u-tainment...

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Freehold DM wrote:
Kthulhu wrote:
DeathQuaker comics? Sounds a bit like an alternate version of Solomon Kane.
death quaker comics? That's an awesome name for company. I'd read on a regular basis, provided it had non whedon fare.

If only I could draw faster than the speed of a snail on dope.

But I like the alternate Solomon Kane idea.

Back to topic -- I wholeheartedly agree with Evil Lyn 666 on those three episodes of Angel. And I think I would class them all above "Once More With Feeling," "Hush" and "the Body." (But then, I'd class watching a TV show about lint over "the Body." "The Body" I thought was anvilicious and gratuitously self-indulgent in morbidity--I couldn't finish watching it, I just felt like the writer was trying to beat me over the head with LOOK I HAVE A MESSAGE ABOUT DEALING WITH DEATH. This is my very personal opinion, but it smacked to me of lazy writing all around and is easily my least favorite episode of Buffy.) I did love "Hush" and "Once More with Feeling."


Erik Mona wrote:

Buffy.

Come talk to me when these other shows equal the brilliance of "Hush," "The Body," or "Once More, With Feeling."

.

I like "The Zeppo".

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber

The best stuff he has ever done is the stuff that no one ever gets to see.


bigkilla wrote:
The best stuff he has ever done is the stuff that no one ever gets to see.

If only he'd put out more of this amazing stuff...

Paizo Employee Publisher, Chief Creative Officer

I do like Smile Time, don't get me wrong. But unlike Buffy, no episode of Angel ever kicked my ass so much that I remembered the title.

I do agree with most of the praise posted about the series, though, particularly once it found its footing in the later seasons. The early seasons were a bit of a mess, but it really was great, and some of the nights where a storyline from Buffy would cross over with Angel were absolutely great.

Liberty's Edge Marathon Voter 2013

Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Season 2 of Angel was a work of art beginning to end. His downward spiral was just phenomenal. Also, evil hand.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I don't hate Joss Whedon, but I do think he is way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way overrated.

Though I still am rooting for him to pull off an awesome Avengers. So he has my good will for that, at least.

The only recent Hollywood "creator" I think is more overrated is J. J. Abrams, though I have to admit I dug Lost and I think the Star Trek reboot was stellar. Thing is, Abrams hasn't got a truly original bone in his body. Everything he does is directly derivative of something else. Something you could name without even thinking hard about it. Even things that have not been gone that long in the first place, like The X-Files. And he doesn't seem to mind not bothering to change much when he "creates" the thing that has already been created. So he's sort of laughing at all of us.

So, comparatively, at least Whedon is a little more original. A little. Like, almost not at all.

I will now contemplate watching something from one of those guys, because paradoxically, though I find them both completely unoriginal and lacking genius at all, I really like what they make anyway. Go figure.


Bruunwald wrote:

I will now contemplate watching something from one of

those guys, because paradoxically, though I find them both completely
unoriginal and lacking genius at all, I really like what they make
anyway. Go figure.

.

Hurray for public school !


There are only two Joss Whedon shows Firefly which was the best and Dr. Horrible's sing along blog. Anyone who go's mouthing off about some other vampire shows I firmly stick my fingers in my ears and go NANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANANA until they stop talking.


I voted for Buffy. Firefly might have surpassed it, if it had been allowed to continue on to the lifespan its quality warranted.

Scarab Sages

Angel was the best. First tv series, actually second after x-files I have owned.
I could it get into Firefly... I hear people's liking for it... I just do not feel it.


dmchucky69 wrote:

Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.

Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.

I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.

What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.

.

Star Voter 2013

1 person marked this as a favorite.
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Grand Magus wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:

Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.

Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.

I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.

What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.

.

Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Caineach wrote:
Grand Magus wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:

Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.

Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.

I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.

What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.

.

Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.

They had a whole episode on that, didn't they?

Star Voter 2013

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
DeathQuaker wrote:
Caineach wrote:
Grand Magus wrote:
dmchucky69 wrote:

Buffy, then Angel, then Firefly, then Dollhouse.

Xander was always my favorite character because he was me in High School, followed by Willow cause Allyson Hannigan is so freaking hot.

I agree that Paul was the most annoying character on Dollhouse and Topher was my favorite. Also, I love the way that show ended.

What was Xander's "power" ? Buffy was the slayer, Willow was the witch, but I'm not clear on what Xander did.

.

Xander was the watcher. He was their connection to the rest of the world. He had no special power, but he understood them and that was what was important. He kept them grounded.
They had a whole episode on that, didn't they?

I don't remember, but I do remember that every major plot point he is in in season 7 that is the theme.

Spoiler:
Season 6 finnale with Willow.

Dawn thinking she is a slayer.
What the preacher says as his eye gets poked out.
He understands them and prevents them from going more insane.

The Exchange Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

For those that haven't seen Dollhouse, I recommend checking it out. I picked up season 1 on DVD and watched it again and it's actually a really good show. I wish they'd been able to continue with it. While I don't agree with Deathquaker about what should have been done with it, the eventual collapse of civilization due to the tech would have made for a great season 3 or 4.


Grand Magus wrote:
darth_borehd wrote:
It's weird how everybody loves firefly but they still won't bring the series back.

They never will because for one season's investment they have gained

10 years of pay off. There is no reason to make more episodes.

.

The new business model is make one season of an awesome show, and then
milk profits from it's cult following for decades.

Also it lost money hand over fist. Not to mention the dismal box office of the movie Serenity.

I mean I liked Firefly - thought it was a nice twist on the sci-fi genre and harkens back to some of the old sci-fi I read from the 40s and 50s - but it was way to expensive to produce given its ratings.

Liberty's Edge

Xander has the power of Heart! I mean come ON it's right there when they kill Adam. Xander is, until season 6, the rock that the other three tie their ships to. And when he leaves, it shows.

Anyway I think Firefly is the best live-action TV show, but Angel is my favourite because it's longer. And because it's grittier than Buffy. I mean, a vampire ghost detective? Who wouldn't want to hear more?

Shadow Lodge

PsychoticWarrior wrote:


I mean I liked Firefly - thought it was a nice twist on the sci-fi genre and harkens back to some of the old sci-fi I read from the 40s and 50s - but it was way to expensive to produce given its ratings.

I'd wager it's ratings would have been higher if Fox hadn't played the shell game with it's time slot. And shuffled it's episode order.

Scarab Sages

I liked them all, but my kryptonite is that I can rarely stand the primary characters on his shows, and end up loving the second and third tier characters he mostly ignores.

I found Buffy herself annoying, a hero who was openly mocked by her foes for making the same mistakes over and over again, and yet, by the power of plot, was inevitably rewarded with an unearned victory anyway (particularly in later seasons, where the writers seemed to give up on making her likable or heroic). Willow, Xander, Cordelia, Giles and Anya were awesome characters, 'though, and I watched the show for them (which meant that seasons six and seven, which were, charitably speaking, unkind to them, were no fun for me).

With Angel, I found Wesley more interesting, and, much later, Illyria (as well as bit characters that were rarely if ever seen, like Gwen Raiden or Bethany Chalk). Cordelia didn't seem to survive the transition from Buffy to Angel, as a character. Whatever spark she had in high school seemed gone. Fred was too cutesy. I welcomed her transition to Illyria (particularly since I got to see the same actress in a whole new light).

In Firefly, I would have watched the show forever if Mal fell into an engine and was never spoken of again, leaving Zoe to run the ship. Zoe seemed both more interesting and more competent (and the fireworks between her and Jayne would have been a lot more interesting, assuming she didn't fill him full of holes the first time he looked at her sideways...). The Mal / Inara passive-aggressive 'romance' that mostly consisted of the two of them verbally insulting each other made me want both characters gone (although, given a choice, I'd choose to keep Inara over Mal!). I was eagerly awaiting the revelations about Shepard Book's mysterious past, possibly as an Operative, but, c'est la vie, and, as has been pointed out, by watching Serenity, I kind of got to see a version of his past, played out by the Operative in that movie...

For Dollhouse, it was Sierra, Victor, Adele, November and Whiskey, although Topher, who initially irritated the hell out of me, grew on me as well. Echo never really struck me, which was disappointing, since I'm a fan of Eliza Dushku. Boyd got kind of fun halfway through the series when he settled in, and developed a bit of snark, although I didn't like him so much at the end, when all the cards were face up.

Picking a favorite is hard. Buffy and Firefly are neck and neck. Buffy had a lot longer of a run (which, unfortunately, also means that it has a lot more uber-sucky episodes and character developments, which drag down my ratings). Firefly both suffers and benefits from it's relatively short run, since it didn't have time for Joss' ADD to kick in and him to lose interest and hand it off to people who would drive it into the ground and gut *all* of the characters. :)

Star Voter 2013, Star Voter 2014

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Set, I'm generally with you on liking the supporting characters more than the main characters.

I also am in a general situation that if I really like the character, they will be killed off. Basically if you can name the characters who died in any Joss Whedon series, they were probably my favorites from that series (Firefly/Serenity was the exception, the two-three characters I liked there all lived).

And I adored Fred, but then being a quirky bespectacled nerd girl (though never as smart as she was) she was the character I related to most. Granted I also loved Illyria for different reasons, but still--especially joined with the character deaths on Buffy, who were largely also characters I related to in some way--left Angel feeling rather irrationally like Joss Whedon was out for me personally.

Shadow Lodge Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Firefly. Loved it instantly, and it's the only one I've watched more than a handful of episodes.

Buffy was okay but I never got big into it, Angel was just a Buffy spin-off (or so it appeared? *shrug*) so I ignored it, and never seemed really interested in Dollhouse.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Firefly. Had trouble getting into Buffy, never saw Angel, and while I liked Dollhouse, I think they should have gotten anyone other than Eliza Dushku for Echo. She made it very difficult for me to enjoy it.


Set, tmdq, I assure you, he killed off characters you enjoyed with grim intent and nothing but malice in his heart. Rebuke him! Let him know that such writing is unacceptable!


I didn't realize this thread had reactivated.

Will read it later, but it thrills my little troll heart to see FHDM still hating.


The vote is clear. Firefly is the greatest show in the history of television. It cannot be denied.

Marathon Voter 2013, Marathon Voter 2014

Freehold DM wrote:
Set, tmdq, I assure you, he killed off characters you enjoyed with grim intent and nothing but malice in his heart. Rebuke him! Let him know that such writing is unacceptable!

But killing characters is fun!

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