This is part rant about in-group politics and policy and one part question about spell use.
Okay. It went down like this. I was running this low-level scenario and had introduced a new PC that session. He was a kind o thiefy, self-interested wizard and ends up just turning invisible and following the party around. He just sort of watches as they kill a giant mother spider and her spawn and the party proceeds to the back where they find the mafia big bad and capture him and loot the various treasures.
The wizard still hasn't done anything and is still invisible, and finally decides to demand in character that he deserves his share. Confused by the new voice, the PCs whirl around on alert and one of them throws some powder to find out where he is. Once outlined, another PC points his greatsword at him and demands he identify himself. The wizard responds by color spraying him in the face.
Four rounds later, the PC recovers and demands again he identify himself and fires some arrows at him, which miss. The wizard tries to color spray him again, but the PC makes his save and exasperated fires more arrows which hit.
At this point, the wizard casts Charm Person on him and the PC failed the Will save. Here it is for ease:
This charm makes a humanoid creature regard you as its trusted friend and ally (treat the target's attitude as friendly). If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
The spell does not enable you to control the charmed person as if it were an automaton, but it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way. You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An affected creature never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing. Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the charmed person breaks the spell. You must speak the person's language to communicate your commands, or else be good at pantomiming.
The wizard starting arguing that he needed to stop attacking him because "they were friends now" and the other PC didn't think the spell was potent often to simply make him stop defending himself in combat.
As a rule on a semi-related note, I never have PC v. PC roleplaying conflict involves dice on things like Bluff v. Sense Motive. I think it should be resolved through in character roleplaying decision and dice can't force a player to say things like "no, you can't think Ben's lying, dude." It seems to be that dice for for NPC v. PC and vice versa.
Do you have opinions about the player interactions/decisions made and/or rulings about Charm Person in this and similar situations?
No opinion on PC-vs-PC issue - but charm person should stop the PC from attacking the wizard. His attitude (a game measure, not a subjective idea) is now "friendly" - which is well removed from "hostile".
Well, it sounds like you have a problem at your table shogun. First off this started totally f***k*d. It seems your wizard friend doesnt know how to interact with a group of people, or is very young and inexperienced to say the least.
Understand this. Charm person affects a persons attitude towards the caster, but if you like an easier answer to this, just read the skill diplomacy, it specifies NPC, not PC. It isn't the same, but it gives YOU the say in the matter. The truth is the wizard went about this in a pretty poor way, and now your left to pick up the pieces. I could suggest some things, but alot of has to come from the players themselves.
Hopefully this helps some.
Cheers mate!
@The Sleeping Dragon: I disagree slightly, keep in mind that charm person is a compulsion.
The player should get a +5 according to the spell, but if he fails the save he does have to stop attacking. Such is the power of mind control spells.
In-game reality-->I will also add that if some new guy starts to follow me around, does not help, and suddenly demands money, and I am a trained killer, then I would expect for myself and the party to kill him, especially after attacking me. He probably should have been dead before the barbarian even woke up.
Out of game-->Tell the other player to stop being a jerk and act like he would in real if he wanted people to accept him. In short cooperate with the group.
Ill add to this again, lore you are in indeed correct compulsion spells like charm and dominate, are definately a part in this game. Useful spells I might add, but that being said this kind of situation isn't the type you want them to be around for. It creates in-fighting at the worst and indecision at its best... either way immensely bogging down games, and causing possible arguments over what is supposed to be a day/night playing with friends. By the book, yes the wizard can do it, as wraithstrike said at a +5 bonus which is pretty hefty. Definately though /agree with both in-game reality and out of game realities from wraith, couldn't have phrased it better myself.
I agree, the PC-v-PC conflict is not cool and shouldn't happen in such a form (a friendly form of such conflict is perfectly fine, provided all parties understand this is something done for the sake of the game and roleplaying, not for the sake of somebody's vanity). As I said in my first post, I'm only asserting my knowledge of the spell and its effect - not the conflict itself.
You might also check he could stay invisible that long - Invisibility only lasts 1 minute/level...
They're level 3, so hat's three minutes, which is 30 rounds. I'm more or less willing to accept the fact that he would be invis the whole time. combat was short.
In-game reality-->I will also add that if some new guy starts to follow me around, does not help, and suddenly demands money, and I am a trained killer, then I would expect for myself and the party to kill him, especially after attacking me. He probably should have been dead before the barbarian even woke up.
Out of game-->Tell the other player to stop being a jerk and act like he would in real if he wanted people to accept him. In short cooperate with the group.
That is absolutely how I feel as well. With a character suddenly appearing and demanding gold when the characters were literally in a den of thieves, that's going to look like robbery. He even upped the stakes unnecessarily by throwing the first punch. I think that actions in roleplaying games need consequences, good and bad, in order to solidify the reality of the world and facilitate the entire concept of free will. If he ended up dead, I wouldn't think it unfair. However, it is a game and its supposed to be fun and involved and he is a real person, so I'd think it better if he was just captured and turned over to the authorities as an unregistered thief operating outside the guild.
I'm not still sure about the spell though. It is a compulsion effect, but between the PC v. PC situation and the high-stakes of violence, I'm not sure it'll work. He regards him as a "good friend," apparently. But he doesn't know him. Never met him. Only situation is the violence, the sudden appearance, and the demanding of gold. I don't want to twist a PCs arm and say, "no sorry, you need to do this" over a first lv spell that's not exactly mind-control, can't include orders of any kind, and a situation that I don't see facilitating that sort of extreme reaction.
As long as the wizard takes no hostile actions "after" the charm spell the barbarian should not be attacking. PC's don't get special consideration from spells.
On one hand, the spell should work. Having a PC stamp on your forehead should not give you a pass on spell effects. Nor should a players real life ability to roleplay, or lack thereof, override spell effects or the dice. Not everybody is equally skilled.
On the other hand, the spell will wear off quick enough and the wizard should probably not expect to survive the situation. The spell should be at best an opening for a retreat. Unless a miracle occurs, I can't see anyone in the party trusting him after this.
On one hand, the spell should work. Having a PC stamp on your forehead should not give you a pass on spell effects. Nor should a players real life ability to roleplay, or lack thereof, override spell effects or the dice. Not everybody is equally skilled.
On the other hand, the spell will wear off quick enough and the wizard should probably not expect to survive the situation. The spell should be at best an opening for a retreat. Unless a miracle occurs, I can't see anyone in the party trusting him after this.
Right, I'm with you. The "PC stamp" thing is not what I mean. You certainly don't get free immunity to certain spells.
I'm wondering how the spells effect, having the PC and target "regard you as its trusted friend and ally" works in a roleplaying sense. He just had violent magic blasted at him from someone he doesn't know. Now, for whatever reason, he must consider him an ally. He hasn't forgotten by any means that he basically got jumped. Does he need to make up a little story to himself about how it was all a mistake or getting blinded and stunned was a good thing? And how it went in a few short rounds of demanding gold, then recovering from blindness and being stunned, arrows, more color spray, more arrows, then "friends." I realize it's a compulsion spell and he did get that +5 for being in combat, but still rolled terribly, failing victim to the wizard and the fickle mistress that is the d20.
Spell says: You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. To me, that would be basically everything. Anything from "give me gold" or "don't kill me."
Though its interesting to think about the length of effect. They're all level three (hour/lv), so three hours. I guess the wizard (if he really is stupid enough) will stick around in the party thinking everything's gravy til the three hours are up. Or he'll take all the gold and disappear. The other two PCs reacted very little to the situation, so god knows what they'll do about it, maybe they'll kill the wizard anyway.
The wizard still hasn't done anything and is still invisible, and finally decides to demand in character that he deserves his share. Confused by the new voice, the PCs whirl around on alert and one of them throws some powder to find out where he is. Once outlined, another PC points his greatsword at him and demands he identify himself. The wizard responds by color spraying him in the face.
Is everybody having fun?
Is so, just watch and adjudicate as fairly as you can.
If not, boot the source of the not-fun from the group.
First, the wizard's a jerk. He does nothing in the spider fight, then introduces himself by demanding a share of the loot?
Second, What happened in the 4 rounds after the colorspray? I agree with sanguine
Yeah, I'm kinda surprised the others haven't carved him to chutney, tbh - Color Spray, then Charm Person? If it was a monster they'd be carving him a new one, things shouldn't change just because they know it's a PC.
the wizard should have been dead courtesy of the other 2 PCs before he had a chance to charm.
Third, given the way it played out, the charmed PC can't beat on the wizard until the charm ends. When it does I hope the wizard grows the axe he deserves in his head. Not in a vindictive way, just in the interests of justice.
Fourth, whatever happens I predict a short life for this particular game.
Small update. Turns out the wizard thought the other PC was attacking him, when he color sprayed him. Although I recall him saying he "approaches, raises his sword to his throat" and then asks him why he was there being a greedy bastard. So he misunderstood and was a jerk. A greedy, somewhat less intentionally pointlessly violent jerk. But... oy vey.