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Help me munchkin it up!


Advice


I'l be joining a game soon that a friend's friend will be making. The current party is Fighter, Monk, Witch (focused on healing) and myself as the fourth member. Now I'm not quite sure as to what I can do, but for once I don't feel like playing a support or healer role. However I can't min-max for the life of me and I'd like it if you guys could give me some help on making strong characters.

The rules being that we make 4th level characters, we roll our stats 4d6 drop lowest and reroll ones (I have good luck usually with that, so think of it as making a 25 point buy character) and no traits. Money is as a lvl 4 should have according to the table in the player's guide, and every book that isn't 3rd party is allowed.

So in essence I'm taking suggestions on my character, also no gunslinger. I've been thinking of summoner, paladin or well just about anything. I also never played a prestige class ever, so that would be an interesting line of thinking too.


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

I despise the term munchkin. It means a million different things to a million different people. Same with the term cheese.


Well I'm sorry, what term would you suggest I use then? Min-maxer?


Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Sorry about that random rant.
I suggest alchemist. They are awesome.


Optimizer. Just because you make a good character doesn't mean you don't have an interesting backstory. As for making a good character you should consider the classes summoner, alchemist, barbarian, zen archer monk, and casters. In that order with the exception of the zen archer. The zen archer is just fun to play.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber

That group make-up seems to scream for a ranged guy. You're hurting for Rogue help, so I guess it depends on what kind of campaigns your GM runs, but if you want to get into the thick of it, off the top of my head I'd say go with one of the several excellent Archer builds out there.

As for me, I tend to favor a handful of characters, all of whom's builds I have laid out from level 1-20 if you'd like to take a look:

Paladin 1-20 (Oath of Vengeance, Eldritch Heritage following the Orcish Bloodline)
He can tank or deal out incredible damage against BBEGs. Nice secondary healer/buffer and very, very self-sufficent.

Paladin 4/Sorcerer 8/Dragon Disciple 8
One of my favorite characters. Starts off as a very solid melee guy but matures into a ranged blaster who can still get into the thick of it when the situation calls for it.

Halfling Master Summoner 1-20
His Eidolon is tricked out as the party's rogue and later on as a mount - his summoned creatures are powerful and versatile enough that he can solo entire campaigns. Lot of fun to play.

Half-Elven Summoner 1-20
Standard Summoner with a truly @ss-kicking Eidolon. I've never summoned creatures with her once.

Elven Wizard (Evocation Specialist) 1-20
Like all wizards he takes a few levels to start to mature, but by the time he hits double digits and beyond, he's literally like a freaking God. The rest of the group usually lets him alpha-strike and then they just go in to clean up.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Modules Subscriber
blackbloodtroll wrote:

Sorry about that random rant.

I suggest alchemist. They are awesome.

I actually got a chuckle out of it - seeing someone with your avatar jump up and say 'I despise the term 'munchkin' was just funny to me.


I can highly recommend urban ranger as a switch hitter that'll get trap finding and a decent amount of skills to help out your party.

You can go fully ranged focus, or you can use the ranger bonus feats to skip some of the ranged prereqs and go for melee feats, giving you the capacity to use both.

Treantmonks guide to the ranger is recommended for this


The campaign is post-end of the world, as the last 5-10k or so people alive after the apocalypse managed to survive on some island away of the big mess. And since I play an alchemist in my other long-term campaign I don't feel like playing another one. Apparently halfbreeds and special races are hated and blamed as one of the various apocalypse reason. The only ones with no *hate* are humans, elves, dwarves and halfings. Maybe gnomes but im not sure.

I have no problem with doing a nice backstory, but I prefer to go with the class first, and work around that after. Full out big damage cleric/paladin wielding a greatsword interests me, archer inquisitor / ranger could work too. Summoner seems fun as well. Is there a prestige class path that would be fun? The one with dragon disciple seems kinda lacking, especially since sorcerer already lvls their spellcaster lvls so slow.


If you go a big damage paladin you and the fighter will be in direct competition for damage (meaning if you completely outclass him, he will have less fun and the reverse will also be true) unless he is archery focused in which case go for it.

Andoran

Seems to me that you're groups missing a few roles that you can both excell in and munchkinize if you want to. Truthfully, it seems the you've got 3 roles that would really benifit your party from. Druids, Rangers and Rogues would all be very useful. Ranger's can fill both the role of your nature guru, your trapsmith, and your primary ranged fighter pretty easily. Alternatively the Druid would give you a huge boost to you're party's survivability with their spell list and healing abilities, as well as an extra melee fighter with an animal companion. Rogue can be very useful here, but you'd really need a lot of background information on your world to build this well. Gunslinger is another build, possibley married with the rogue that could really excell in this world as you've described it so far.

Andoran

A build that I'm currently working on, and might be really fun in you campaign would be Wizard 1 (Spellslinger)/Cleric 3. Could work with Druid too.


Thing is I don't really care about the party. According to the setting in which the end of the world happen, there is a lot of hate on half-breeds and lower races. Sadly 1 of the party members is a Witch and the other is a tiefling fighter, so my Melee Cleric of Murder and Serioustime is disregarding them until they really proove themselves.

I decided on paladin and cleric as the final builds, and after seeing how many buffs and stuff I could get with my cleric I decided to forgoe the paladin special skills.

I went with Aasimar because my DM would let me. Glory and Travel domain, greatsword wielding plated cleric of mean business. Feat-wise I went with heavy armor prof and power attack. At lvl 5 I might take a more cleric-y feat or simply cleave for more serioustime. My cleric is still a very good guy, especially to the good elven monk in the party.


Weables wrote:

I can highly recommend urban ranger as a switch hitter that'll get trap finding and a decent amount of skills to help out your party.

You can go fully ranged focus, or you can use the ranger bonus feats to skip some of the ranged prereqs and go for melee feats, giving you the capacity to use both.

Treantmonks guide to the ranger is recommended for this

This is a strong option and fills a trap finding niche, in an end of the world campaign the skills would also be very helpful. A horse animal companion would also blow peoples minds in a post apoc world.

Since you decided to go with cleric heavy armour prof and power attack are good choices but don't fall into the trap of trying to do everything. Focus your feats on combat and your spells on buffing with some healing, level 5 feat probably wants to be furious focus since its great. Look toward some other combat feats and possibly getting exotic weapon proficiency in a reach weapon such as fauchard and top it off with improved critical.

A channelling feat or weapon may be worthwhile for you, look up greyflame in the apg, also divine interference is an excellent feat for critical negation so its worth while bearing in mind.


Yeah it's combat, buffing and healing when needed.


since you're not good at min/maxing, I doubt you have the experience to play a summoner without delaying the table or make some mistakes when creating the eidolon as sythesist (no offense meant).
+1 for alchemist, I would suggest mindchemist + throwing a lot of bombs, high int etc. decent damage, and if you want to brag, you can nova
or beastmorph vivisectionist and handle it like a monk.


I already play an alchemist, and I don't usually min-max because it's never needed. I'm doing a needed party role, healer, and I need to have it strong enough to hold me own, which I am doing, I think.


in a party of 4, the alchemist is an acceptable healer.
He lacks the sheer number of spells the witch/cleric has and he needs either an archetype or a discovery to help others.
But even if he uses 90% of his spells as heals, he can still be useful with bombs and mutagens.
It's really not optimized, but you help your buddies which is way more important.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

For your 5th feat, I think there is a Word of Healing or something feat that lets you lay on hands at range. Selective Channeling may be useful, so you can burst heals and not heal your enemies.


Infight channeling is not worth it. Not at all. And LoH is just good to use on yourself a swift action. So do not waste feats there. (exept extra LoH with Oath of Vengeance)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

We use in fight healing all the time in my campaigns. But our GM has put an CR 26 party against our level 14 party of 3. And in the game I run, the PCs have a bad habit of combining encounters, so 4 CR 8 encounters become one CR 12 encounter.


SmiloDan wrote:
We use in fight healing all the time in my campaigns. But our GM has put an CR 26 party against our level 14 party of 3.

O_o

o_O

...So, what were your new characters like?


Maybe stop infight channeling and get rid of that DM.

Then, maybe you will find the end of the rainbow.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Arbane the Terrible wrote:
SmiloDan wrote:
We use in fight healing all the time in my campaigns. But our GM has put an CR 26 party against our level 14 party of 3.

O_o

o_O

...So, what were your new characters like?

We kicked their @$$es. A hasted form of the dragon battle sorcerer that cast wraithstrike on himself gets like 7 melee touch attacks in a round, plus my dragon shaman auras added +21 damage that round, plus we have a hasted archery ranger that was battling her favored enemies.

I was also able to quicken a dragon breath a line of fire, then use a staff of fire to hit them with a wall of fire, then take a five foot step through the wall of fire.

This is why the redcoats lost. They stood in a line.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Robespierre wrote:
Optimizer. Just because you make a good character doesn't mean you don't have an interesting backstory. As for making a good character you should consider the classes summoner, alchemist, barbarian, zen archer monk, and casters. In that order with the exception of the zen archer. The zen archer is just fun to play.

There's a difference between optimizer and munchkin. The latter takes the former up to the degree where it involves at best questionable use of loopholes and language. The munchkin is also the one whose choices have nothing to do with the background of his character.

The munchkin is the one that will insist that every magus is either a scimitar wielding dervish dancer or a fail player.


Perhaps I should have said optimizer then :p Anyway test results from the first game is that my Cleric equals the fighter in damage, but he has a tiny bit more combat utility from his overrun and other skills. As an aasimar and a tiefling in a post-apocalypse setting where people hate halfbreeds, we make a good duo, even if we dont like eachother in-game.

I didn't know what to spend on gear, having only 6k so I simply got a +1 greatsword, a masterwork fieldplate and a bag of holding. I found a longbow after killing some mooks and depending on an assignement we get I'l be using my leftover 400g to get whatever tiny adventuring things we need.

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