I could use a little help with the rope dart.


Rules Questions


I have a character build in mind that concentrates on thrown weapons, and while daggers were the first thought, the rope dagger looks great. While it will require an Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use, it won't require Quick Draw for multiple attacks. Snap Shot and the Improved version look great for AoOs.

However, I have a few basic questions on the rope dart:
1) How many hands does it take to wield it?
2) Can this weapon really be used out to 5 range increments (100 feet total)? The description states a 12 ft. cord, but that's not even long enough for one range increment (20 ft.).


You can dip Unarmed Fighter to get proficiency with it w/o a feat. It's a monk weapon from UC and Unarmed Fighter is proficient with monk weapons (monks are NOT proficient with monk weapons from UC...go figure...).

1) One hand
2) It's not defined well. I understood it to work like a whip, sort of an in-between ranged and melee weapon. It can hit out to 20 ft away (cord + dart itself + your natural reach, basically) but you don't threaten with it and using it provokes AoOs from anyone threatening you. So, 20 ft isn't a range increment, that' how far away you can actually strike with it.

I had a monk/duelist build in mind that used Snake Style for piercing unarmed strikes and rope dart in hand to finish out iterative attacks at long reach if needed. It's also a blocking weapon, which is helpful with crane style.

Grand Lodge

So, it is a ranged weapon, or a reach weapon? The thing is really worded poorly.


1 person marked this as FAQ candidate.
HappyDaze wrote:
2) Can this weapon really be used out to 5 range increments (100 feet total)? The description states a 12 ft. cord, but that's not even long enough for one range increment (20 ft.).

You can throw this weapon at 2 possible ways. You can hang on to the rope. This gives you a range of 12 ft. + whatever your arms give you. Probably enough to hit into a 15ft. radius.

However, nobody is forcing you to hang onto the rope. You can just throw it like a dagger. This gives you a 20 ft. range (more than a dagger as a dagger is designed to be used both melee and ranger).
Using it this way, you can throw is 100 ft. Not sure you will hit anything with the large penalty though ihmo, noting is stopping you from trying.

Unless they errata it, I'm quite sure this is what they wanted to write.

P.S. If you find 15 ft. to be short, talk to your gm. Giving the appropriate skills/feats/background story/gold he may let you create a custom made version with a longer cord.


A rope dart is not retained. You do need quickdraw to make iteratives with them. The rope is about half the length of a sling. Essentially you're using a dart with a disposable sling built in.

Grand Lodge

What kind of action is it to retrieve the rope dart? It only says "Once it strikes, the wielder can quickly retrieve the weapon with a tug of the rope."

Grand Lodge

Atarlost wrote:
A rope dart is not retained. You do need quickdraw to make iteratives with them. The rope is about half the length of a sling. Essentially you're using a dart with a disposable sling built in.

No sling I've ever seen has anything approaching a 24-foot cord.

Rope Dart - This guy is doing a reach attack a couple times a round, and he's a doofus. Granted it only looks like a 10-foot reach, but he's not exactly a Pathfinder Monk either...

If one of my players wanted to use this, I'd let them do iterative attacks with a 10 foot reach, but anything longer than that and they'd have to retrieve with a swift action. They could combine the two, so that if they had, say, three attacks they could do two at 10 feet, one at 20, then retrieve.

Anything longer than 20 they'd have to release the rope.


Since it explicitly says you can just tug the cord to get it back, the intent doesn't seem to be that you throw it as a one-off item... I think they made a mistake in how they classified the weapon. It should be a melee finessable weapon with similar rules to that of a whip. 1-handed, can attack anywhere within the (20 ft) reach but does not threaten any of that space and using it provokes AoOs. I'm pretty sure that's how it was intended to work...


Atarlost wrote:
A rope dart is not retained. You do need quickdraw to make iteratives with them. The rope is about half the length of a sling. Essentially you're using a dart with a disposable sling built in.

Atarlost,

I think you are confusing the rope dart with the "dart". The dart on the weapon list is not a tavern dart, nor is it a lawn dart ( which is deadly ). It's a 12 to 18 inch heavy tipped, miniature javelin. It's hurled with a short sling thats affixed into a notch near the fletching.
At least that is the weapon that it used to be in earlier versions of the game.
That version was used by Roman Auxiliaries, Greek support troops and later European Armies. It was a fairly common hunting weapon prior to guns and bow weapons. It was fairly easy to make though a little tricky to master.

As to the Rope Dart in game terms; My opinion is that its perhaps the most poorly written weapon on the list. Understandable since it breaks several of the RAW for the game. It's hard to fit into the general weapon rules.

It should NOT be a ranged weapon, the trailing rope makes long ranged attacks very hard to pull off, with the increased drag over distance.

It should be finesable.
It should have a Reach of 20'
It should probably provoke an AoO
It should require 2 hands, but not allow 2handed damage and count as a one handed weapon for style feats and unarmed strikes. ( this would prevent dual wielding, a super difficult thing to pull off)
It should get either Trip or Disarm ( maybe both)
It should get Distracting I'm not to sure about Blocking
It should be a free action to retrieve the dart
It could be a Bludgeoning, Piercing or Slashing weapon, depending on the tip.
It should only do at most 1d4 damage.
It should count as a rope in grappling situations.

That's a lot of goodness. I'll bet it had most of this originally but got nerfed for being to good as even an Exotic. I'm hard pressed to say what was intended rules wise. That it's a Ranged Weapon makes it usuable with several feats that make it more useful in some ways. Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot it also means that it skips Weapon Finesse as a feat tax for a Dex Monk. It can use Zen Archery maybe ( whatever that feat is that let's you use WIS for ranged attacks).

Despite my fondness for the weapon personally, I've yet to use the Pathfinder Rules for it. We've been using some old 3PP stats for it for several years, but I don't like them either.

I tried to use this as a weapon for competition forms years ago. With mixed results. It's a cool weapon but hard to get the hang of and not available to advanced students as they were required to use sharp weapons and the judges didn't like to be near the Buisness end of them.

I'd love to see what the Designer/Developers have to say about this weapon.


So what I'm getting from this is that nobody is very clear on how the rope dart really works. Bummer. Seemed like a good concept that's going to suffer for poorly written rules.

Grand Lodge

Necromancy!

Has there been word on the action required to retrieve the Rope Dart?

Sczarni

shameless bump, this weapon is too cool to let go of!

Also, as I intend to use it in PFS, it would be nice to get some kind of text I can show my GM instead of being subjected to GM decision every time!

Grand Lodge

Carla the Profane wrote:

shameless bump, this weapon is too cool to let go of!

Also, as I intend to use it in PFS, it would be nice to get some kind of text I can show my GM instead of being subjected to GM decision every time!

There isn't any for any of the eastern weapons. It just comes down to table variation.

Sczarni

The rope dart has the "monk" property, which means it can be used to make a flurry of blows. Therefore, retrieving the dart must be a free action, or else you couldn't flurry with it.


You might have to carry multiple rope darts to flurry with it (like shuriken).

The weapon cord is now a move action to retrieve, so the rope dart should be the same thing.

Sczarni

I'm pretty sure the idea is that you don't "retrieve" the rope dart at all, in the sense of "safely catching it, getting a solid grip on it, and throwing it again". You instead use the rope dart's own momentum to swing it around on the rope for another go.

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